Impressions from game

[Doc]

56 minutes ago, Ralonzo said:

I think Doc is arguing that this years backups are better than last year's starters and we can have that discussion. I refrained from going that far because the 74-76-71-64-68 combo did not run against 1s vs the Colts. We may get to see that yet; I'd sure like to see what happens.

 

I misunderstood what you were saying.  I think the starters and depth will be much better, but I wouldn't say the backups will be better than the starting OL last year.

[Pabstblueribbon]

9 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Observe the masterful way Kyle Allen stared down Sherfield (16) and threw to him even though he was covered, before anyone else had a chance to complete their route and even Cook, his checkdown, did not have a chance to leak out and get open.  Admire the precision of his targeting,which throws where the DB has a better chance on the ball, instead of where Sherfield would have to come back for it and have a chance for a DH or DPI penalty if not a completion.

 

 

 

This type of execution is precisely why I became a bills fans in the early 2000's. 

 

"Look at the pepper on that ball! This is the year, baby!" 

[Ralonzo]

49 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I misunderstood what you were saying.  I think the starters and depth will be much better, but I wouldn't say the backups will be better than the starting OL last year.

 

Gotcha. Have to believe guys like Saffold, Van Rotten and Quesenbunny would be no better than 3rd string with the current depth (and in Q's case, that's a fact)

[Beck Water]

On 8/12/2023 at 4:44 PM, Beast said:

What I saw was a lot of young wide receivers that want to make this squad and played rather well. 

Ateman, Patmon and Johnson caught my eye. Ateman has some damned strong hands.

 

 

One thing that puzzled me about the depth chart the Bills put out was this guy named "Atemon" that was higher on it than a bunch of other guys whose names I'd heard.  Now I know why.

 

On 8/12/2023 at 5:06 PM, klos63 said:

Barkely did well in the 4th qtr of game 1 preseason, against many players that probably won't be in the league in 3 weeks.

 

To be fair, Barkley played all of the 3rd Q after Kyle Allen's pick 6.  I don't know the Colts roster well enough to know who was still on the field then, but that means Barkley was playing behind an OL and with many skill players that probably won't be on the team in 3 weeks.  So he had the lesser players to work with as well.

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Ralonzo said:

 

That play annoyed me for how well the OL had set the pocket, only to have the ball come out way too fast to the wrong guy.

 

26 minutes ago, Pabstblueribbon said:

 

This type of execution is precisely why I became a bills fans in the early 2000's. 

 

"Look at the pepper on that ball! This is the year, baby!" 

 

You know it! 

 

LOOK at the placement on that ball!  He threw past the sticks!  So what if he threw it where the DB had a better shot on it than he did!

 

What on earth is that guy looking at, in liking how Kyle Allen played?

Edited August 14, 2023 by Beck Water

[Gregg]

I know it was only a preseason game but how was the parking/traffic situation. With construction of the new stadium did it cause much of a hassle. I would imagine with the regular season it will cause some problems as 72,000 will be showing up on game days.

[Rockinon]

21 hours ago, HiMark said:

Not high on Isabella in return game.  Failed to ever read or follow any of his blocks.  Evans comes out and immediately makes a good read on a block.  Don't think either will make team, tho, too much depth!

Evans could sneak on to the roster if he continues to return like that. I completely agree about Isabella. He looked too hesitant. We have a huge hole at return man right now.

[Rigotz]

On 8/12/2023 at 5:25 PM, Einstein said:

Posted this in the game day thread as well, but Cook already has me excited for this season.

 

His vision to bounce runs outside is something we have missed for many years when Singletary was the running back.

 

I have no doubt that Singletary plows into the line rather than bouncing it outside for the TD on this play:

 

 

 

Great seal blocks from Sherfield and Knox on this run as well. 

 

That's an underrated upgrade this year that should lead to some big runs.

 

With bigger bodies on the outside (Knox, Sherfield, Kincaid), we'll break off some of those nice screens and outside runs that the 49ers have become known for. Imagine a 12 personnel formation with Knox, Kincaid, Sherfield, and Gabe on an obvious run down, then we play action pass or screen to one of them.

 

I love how multiple the offense can be with our new weapons!

[BillsShredder83]

10 hours ago, Ralonzo said:

 

Just did the same for the first half and I concur. The only reason that pass gets batted I think is by that point their DL was finally realizing the futility of trying to beat 64 and stopped trying, lol. The first snap of the game, Torrence and Brown used a couple of Colts as blocking sleds. That sort of thing gives one some hope.

 

Other big sweaties that flashed to me were Eli Ankou who was a total menace in the 2nd Q and may have been the best Bills DL in the game. Also, the combo of VanDemark and Edwards who really worked well as a unit. Shell also beat the piss out of pretty much everyone he faced. The 74-76-71-64-68 unit was fairly dominant against the level of competition. There might not be much dropoff from 2022 if those were the starters, and they're not (maybe 64).

 

I only did the first half notes, don't know that I'll get to the 2nd soon so rather than a thread where people will see it, I'll just dump the quick-hit analysis of the trenches here where nobody will haha.

 

 

1st D Series
1st & 10) Settle playing the 1 away from Nelson makes the stop. Oliver earns a draw vs Nelson but ends up on his back.
2nd & 😎 Quick hitch, < 2 seconds for delivery
3rd & 3) Inside run goes over Oliver who is moved out of the way, milano is dragged for the 1st.
1st & 10) Screen to McKenzie, < 1 second to deliver
2nd & 6) INTERCEPTION Rousseau with an instant win and Neal nickel blitz were closing on Richardson who threw off the back foot and sailed it.

 

1st O Series - 73-66-60-64-79
1st & 10) Handoff Cook, Brown and Torrence moved the Colts D Line 5 yards downfield right away. Wow.
2nd & 5) Handoff Cook, Dawkins pancakes his guy, Torrence seals the other tackle off. Close to 1st but offsetting fouls.
2nd & 5) Handoff Cook TOUCHDOWN Dawkins and McGovern double team a DL and Kincaid in the Y does just enough to seal the edge before getting thrown unceremoniously to the turf by 52.

 

2nd D Series
1st & 10) Rousseau another instant win but Richardson escapes.
2nd & 5) Another quick rhythm throw for a 1st.
1st & 10) Rousseau goes upfield and Settle gets handled by RG, run goes between them.
2nd & 4) McD brings the house on a cover-1, incomplete.
3rd & 4) Coverage sack for Milano but Rousseau was in the neutral zone.
1st & 10) Bills stack the box and looked like a stuff for loss but Lawson drifts inside and loses contain, runner cuts back behinds him for a nice gain.
2nd & 4) Run is aimed at Ankou, Bills swarm to limit the gain
3rd & 2) Basham flashes from LDE around the edge to stop the play at the LOS.
4th & 1) Colts run at Ankou again and get NOTHING. Turnover on downs.

 

2nd O Series - 73-66-60-64-79
1st & 10) Draw to Cook, Knox at the Y gets defeated by the DE and the play is snuffed. Looks like bad play design as Dawkins and McGovern go right to the 2nd level.
2nd & 10) Quick handoff to Cook, Morse and McGovern parted the sea for him.
3rd & 3) Quick rhythm pass to the double covered receiver hits the Colt in the chest. Good pocket, either a poor decision or a single-read.

 

3rd D Series
1st & 10) Ed Oliver gets instant penetration 1 second before the snap.
1st & 5) Inc short right. Oliver with a real nice hand fight against Nelson and was close to arriving at the QB.
2nd & 5) Run right over Nelson, who turned Settle right out of the hole.
1st & 10) Colts block down left and blew most of the Bills off the line for the run behind.
2nd & 6) Screen over the entire Bills line, the Colts are adjusting to McD dialing up the blitzes.
1st & 10) 20 yard pass, Bills never got upfield at all except AJE who was way wide.
1st & 10) Play action holds the Bills line, AJE definitely was fooled for a moment. Elam handsy penalty, lister to the vets in camp kid.
1st & 10) End zone shot inc, Floyd juuuust got taken wide.
2nd & 10) Quick shot to Lil Dummy, Floyd way upfield again but this was another quick rhythm shot.
1st & 10) Run at Poona Ford who gets pushed right out of the way.
2nd & 4) Ankou pushes the line back, Ford does not, run goes between them.
1st & 10) Richardson naked boot left, Basham did not react and gave the corner. But... HOLDING
1st & 20) Run off right tackle, this time Ford gets his hands in on the pads to get a draw and the runner barrels into him.
2nd & 16) Bills don't get good pressure but Richardson still throws off back foot and sails it. Offsetting fouls tho.
3rd & 16) Bills do get good pressure but it's a screen so the Colts intended for that.
4th & 16) Figgie doinks, HAH-ha.
Jeez that's a lot of plays for no points.

 

3rd O Series 74-76-71-64-68
1st & 10) Handoff Murray, Shell and VanDemark run their guys down the field and Edwards turns his, nice gain.
2nd & 4) Checkdown pass to Murray, GREAT slide step from VanDemark to handle a speed rusher lined up wide. Torrence singles his guy - he is just a rock. 
1st & 10) Keystone Kops. Rhythm play doesn't happen in rhythm. VanDemark gets beat but pushed his guy wide enough that if the play happened like it should have, it should have been enough.
2nd & 12) Batted pass. Terrific pocket, but Torrence's guy knew he could not get around him so threw his arms up.
3rd & 12) Pass to Shakir. Edwards and VanDemark do a great job handling a stunt to allow that. Bates/Torrence/Shell are a wall.
1st & 10) Run Murray. Reminiscent of the Colts all-down-block-left, nice gain.
2nd & 5) High snap Bates blows the timing on that run. Nice pull VanDemark all the way to the right and bops a LB.
3rd & 3) Torrence turns the lineman out of the hole but LB's fill on Murray.
4th & 1) Allen scramble for 1st. Colts are just bailing on trying Torrence now, he's looking for someone to hit.
1st & 10) Bad pass Allen but nice work again between VanDemark and Edwards to double a guy ready to break free.
2nd & 10) Rhythm pass to Shakir, good anchor from Edwards on one guy, Torrence & Shell envelop another.
3rd & 3) Rhythm pass to Shakir, but dropped. Colts showed blitz but dropped out.

 

4th D Series
1st & 10) Colts 2nd string is in. Settle collapses the RG for the sack, with Basham closing
2nd & 14) Settle again moves the QB and Basham finishes this time.
3rd & 21) Draw snuffed by Ford.
Bill DL won that series severely.

 

4th O Series 77-76-71-64-68
1st & 10) Screen to Murray. Thought Torrence got beat for a sec - oh it's a screen haha.
2nd & 4) Big drag route to Isabella, line handled everyone 1-on-1 leaving Quess with a corner blitzer which even he can handle.
1st & 10) Down-blocking right and Murray rumbling behind.
2nd & 6) Play action fails on a 12 set, 48 & 85 let a free rusher right by off the snap for the sack as they ran routes.
3rd & 15) Morris drop. Oof couple plays. Quess actually did ok against their edge.

 

5th D series
1st & 10) Ankou defeats a double-team instantly and forced a bounce outside.
2nd & 10) Neutral zone foul by Broughton.
2nd & 5) Ankou annihilates the play inside for no gain.
3rd & 5) Lol, Ankou stunts and ALMOST gets home, but the trash picks off Neal for the conversion.
1st & 10) Shane Ray from right edge comes down the line to make the stop.
2nd & 😎 Bills send a whole lot of guys who don't get there. 94 got handled easily.
1st & 10) Quick throw, quick tackle, not much to see there.
2nd & 4) Ray and Jonathan get handled at the edge.
1st & 10) Jailhouse blitz, Dorian doesn't quick get there, Jonathan drops in coverage.
1st & 10) 93 and 94 aren't really holding up for that middle run.
2nd & 5) If that play idn't thrown that quick, Dick Dale or Ankou would have splattered the QB. Both looking like Pat Williams there.
1st & Goal) Quick throw, flag. Colts handle the middle blitz pretty good there.
1st & Goal) 51 and 61 still clogging the middle, Dorian shoots the gap for the TFL.
2nd & Goal) TD. Jonathan got smushed and they scored right over him.

 

Colts sure ran a whole lot of plays on O that half.
 

thanks for this! great work, i was able to remember every play from your descriptions.  i really mentally zoomed in on the right side of the line, thought they looked pretty damn good, thanks for filling in the gaps of left side & morse.

 

think Ankou has any chance to make the 53? thought he looked good in spot duty last year, toughest position to crack the 53 IMO.  if he manages it, its well earned!

10 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Dropoff?  Jettisoning the terrible Saffold, Brown finally being healthy and Torrence supplanting and being better than last year's RG Bates should make for a decent stepup.

Hes referencing the 2nd tring OL being as good as last years starters. Yall are on the same page here

[pocoboy]

On 8/12/2023 at 6:42 PM, GunnerBill said:

Kyle Allen was absolutely atrocious. Including holding the ball forever, staring down receivera and fidgety, skittish feet in the pocket. 

 

 

Now I know he had injury problems in Washington, and that team is a bit of a joke...but hell if he couldn't beat out Taylor Heinicke he seems like a long shot to be a competent backup on this team. Granted the thought process is probably, "We've gotta push all-in on this season with Josh still at a reasonable salary & cutting around $2MM in backup QB salary can be used elsewhere."

 

If that's the rationale, I'd rather make Barkley the backup and sign an undrafted rookie to the PS for the bare minimum.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, pocoboy said:

 

Now I know he had injury problems in Washington, and that team is a bit of a joke...but hell if he couldn't beat out Taylor Heinicke he seems like a long shot to be a competent backup on this team. Granted the thought process is probably, "We've gotta push all-in on this season with Josh still at a reasonable salary & cutting around $2MM in backup QB salary can be used elsewhere."

 

If that's the rationale, I'd rather make Barkley the backup and sign an undrafted rookie to the PS for the bare minimum.

 

I am sure that was the rationale. As Josh's deal goes up in value the $$s on a backup goes down.... from Trubisky at $6m to Keenum at $3.5m to Kyle Allen at $1.2m. But he just isn't it. They save $750k by cutting him, about the same as Barkley. So even if they are not willing to do anything else at the spot those two are an either / or. 

[Warcodered]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

 

You know it! 

 

LOOK at the placement on that ball!  He threw past the sticks!  So what if he threw it where the DB had a better shot on it than he did!

 

What on earth is that guy looking at, in liking how Kyle Allen played?

What are you talking about that looks like a great pass....wait he was trying to throw it to the guy in white not the one in blue....oh well never mind.

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

 

You know it! 

 

LOOK at the placement on that ball!  He threw past the sticks!  So what if he threw it where the DB had a better shot on it than he did!

 

What on earth is that guy looking at, in liking how Kyle Allen played?

I think he soiled his linen on his evaluation…,

[White Linen]

14 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

TRASH! That’s the word I was thinking reading your post. Thank you!

 

And that's why you're the worst mod we've ever had.  Hypocrite.  

[White Linen]

12 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Observe the masterful way Kyle Allen stared down Sherfield (16) and threw to him even though he was covered, before anyone else had a chance to complete their route and even Cook, his checkdown, did not have a chance to leak out and get open.  Admire the precision of his targeting,which throws where the DB has a better chance on the ball, instead of where Sherfield would have to come back for it and have a chance for a DH or DPI penalty if not a completion.

 

 

 

I don't think he put on a masterclass but I don't think he was trash either.  He did more good than bad IMO and I was expecting something awful based on feedback here vs being able to watch at 7 am on Sundays replay.  My other two buddies and my 2 teenagers all felt that way.

 

We all said, man we were expecting much worse.   

[White Linen]

3 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

 

You know it! 

 

LOOK at the placement on that ball!  He threw past the sticks!  So what if he threw it where the DB had a better shot on it than he did!

 

What on earth is that guy looking at, in liking how Kyle Allen played?

 

He threw more than one pass Beck.  I mean cmon.  There's more passes with really good placement.  Good grief you take one still of a bad pass and won't of the good ones?

[TC in St. Louis]

On 8/12/2023 at 5:06 PM, klos63 said:

Barkely did well in the 4th qtr of game 1 preseason, against many players that probably won't be in the league in 3 weeks.

14 of 15 against open air is pretty impressive.  He was fine.

[Rocky Landing]

1 hour ago, White Linen said:

 

I don't think he put on a masterclass but I don't think he was trash either.  He did more good than bad IMO and I was expecting something awful based on feedback here vs being able to watch at 7 am on Sundays replay.  My other two buddies and my 2 teenagers all felt that way.

 

We all said, man we were expecting much worse.   

Helps to keep low expectations, I suppose...

 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2023 by Rocky Landing

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, White Linen said:

 

He threw more than one pass Beck.  I mean cmon.  There's more passes with really good placement.  Good grief you take one still of a bad pass and won't of the good ones?

 

Dude, I was responding to, and others have been addressing, this post from you:

22 hours ago, White Linen said:

 

I was more than pleased.  None of the sacks were on him.  He three the ball in fantastic placement several times and showed good mobility on the run for a 1st.  Even the play he got pressure and spun around and Ill advised threw the ball to Murray ended up saving 4 yards. He had a batted down ball you don't like to see. Shavers looled lacked ball skills on both of those Allen passes. But I really like a lot of what he did.  I watched with 3 other fans and we were all expecting much worse from Allen based on the comments here.  We all vehemently disagreed. Just OOP.

 

All in all he wasn't the trash many posted.

 

I don't think anyone said that he made no good passes.  But if people are responding to your post, they're going to be posting to refute the stuff I highlighted, where you seem to be going overboard in his praise.

 

Of those 8 completions, four were quick pitches or checkdowns to the wide-open RB.  One of those was a toss-up ball during a near-sack that should have been an incomplete pass out of bounds or in the dirt in the direction of Murray, which would have gotten us back to the LOS.  Which leaves us with 3 passes that showed good placement, plus one that required his receiver to jump for it.

 

Now you can be "more than pleased" if you like, with 3 good throws on 8 completions out of 15 throws, 2 sacks (and a 3rd almost-sack), an INT (and a second near-pick).  You and your 3 fan buddies can relieve him of all responsibility for the sacks, put the responsibility on his receiver for the INT, etc. 

 

To the rest of us, that's not good enough.  And I believe McDermott made it unambiguous in his post-game presser that's where he is.

[Fleezoid]

I'm sorry, I don't do impressions... my training is in psychiatry.