Is the MLB Competition Over Before It Started?

[TFBillsfan]

1 hour ago, Alpo Chino said:

Edmunds lacks instincts as a run stopper and always seemed to drop interceptions. He will most likely be missed vs the pass. But hopefully with everyone in the secondary seemingly healthier, this makes up for it. MLB should be atop the list of positions to upgrade going into 2024. 

Agree. However, next year will be three straight years drafting a LB. Beane has attempted to address the position with two questionable 3rd round picks.

 

 

[DrDawkinstein]

4 minutes ago, TFBillsfan said:

Agree. However, next year will be three straight years drafting a LB. Beane has attempted to address the position with two questionable 3rd round picks.

 

 

 

Funny because I always say ILB is the defensive equivalent to the RB on the offense. And Beane tried two questionable 3rd round picks to solve our RB situation as well.

[Einstein]

20 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Two words.  Multiple variable.  Go take Statistics 101

 

And there are not multiple variables in your 4-0 comment?

You’re flailing.

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

5 hours ago, Bigvinny said:

Von Miller even said it was Dodson the whole time.

Von Miller had us signing every free agent of note on the market … how’d that work out?

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

I haven't seen a single draft profile out there that even approaches agreeing with that.  They say the exact opposite, that he does not have the skillset/phyique to play MLB and is essentially a WLB.  

 

I'm not sure that you realize that.   

 

Bernard was more MLB than Williams is.  

 

 

I don't care so much what the draft profiles were.  I think McDermott is building to a model he thinks is what's needed in the modern NFL.   He wants speed and athleticism and doesn't think size is that important.   I'm not saying that's right or wrong, it's just what I think he's doing.   He requires speed, athleticism, brains, and aggression in the middle.   Edmunds' size was an added feature, a plus, but not essential to what McDermott is looking for.  Edmunds turned out never to have the aggression.  Williams has it all, with the brains yet to be determined - can he play the position?  I don't think McDermott cares very much that he doesn't have the size Edmunds has.  

[oldmanfan]

27 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

And there are not multiple variables in your 4-0 comment?

You’re flailing.

Yes there are.  Which is why I posted it.  It is a fact the Bills went 4-0 with Dodson starting last year.  Because it is a team game.  

6 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

Well then there's your answer. They, like some on here, probably think a backup is "good enough." I guess we'll see!

No the answer is how well the team plays.  Dodson is one of 11 guys on the defensive side of the ball.

[oldmanfan]

30 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I don't care so much what the draft profiles were.  I think McDermott is building to a model he thinks is what's needed in the modern NFL.   He wants speed and athleticism and doesn't think size is that important.   I'm not saying that's right or wrong, it's just what I think he's doing.   He requires speed, athleticism, brains, and aggression in the middle.   Edmunds' size was an added feature, a plus, but not essential to what McDermott is looking for.  Edmunds turned out never to have the aggression.  Williams has it all, with the brains yet to be determined - can he play the position?  I don't think McDermott cares very much that he doesn't have the size Edmunds has.  

My guess is Dodson is in on early downs but they’ll play 4-1-6 on passing downs with Rapp on the field and Milano as the 1 LB.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

37 minutes ago, AlCowlingsTaxiService said:

Von Miller had us signing every free agent of note on the market … how’d that work out?

[Pokebball]

7 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

 

The counterpoint to my argument seems to be "we had a top 5 defense with Edmunds, but let's spend the money elsewhere and worst case still have a top 10 defense with a backup. It's not that much of a difference." I think it will be a very noticeable difference. We saw it last year when Edmunds was out.

Edmunds chased the $. You guys know I'm a Wyoming guy and something I've been doing the last few years is comparing Logan Wilson, MLB for the Bengals with Edmunds. See the link below. The Bengals just extended Wilson for about half of what the Bears are paying Edmunds. And not noted in these stats is that Wilson might be the smartest guy on this team.

 

Edmonds vs Wilson

[Einstein]

43 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

It is a fact the Bills went 4-0 with Dodson starting last year.  

 

Saying that is acceptable.

 

But saying the Bills gave up more points in those games, on average, is not acceptable?

[TheyCallMeAndy]

3 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

I haven't seen a single draft profile out there that even approaches agreeing with that.  They say the exact opposite, that he does not have the skillset/phyique to play MLB and is essentially a WLB.  

 

I'm not sure that you realize that.   

 

Bernard was more MLB than Williams is.  

 

 

Because amateur scouts with a website and a professional looking for specific traits for a specific defensive scheme are the same thing. McD himself has even said Williams will get looks at MLB once he learns the defense. 

[oldmanfan]

3 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Saying that is acceptable.

 

But saying the Bills gave up more points in those games, on average, is not acceptable?

Not when you think it’s solely because Dodson started.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Funny because I always say ILB is the defensive equivalent to the RB on the offense. And Beane tried two questionable 3rd round picks to solve our RB situation as well.

So we draft a tall, athletic LB in the 2nd round next to solve our issues! 

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

My guess is Dodson is in on early downs but they’ll play 4-1-6 on passing downs with Rapp on the field and Milano as the 1 LB.

I like that guess.   It's consistent with my guess about what McDermott's grand scheme is.   I think he is testing the limits of the speed-vs-size tradeoff.  He is going to force offenses to prove that they can over the Bills' front seven in the run game, and until those offenses can prove they can do that, McDermott is going to play fast athletes who tackle aggressively.   (That, by the way, may also have something do with why Elam hasn't won the CB2 spot outright - he hasn't brought that kind of talent to stopping the run.  I don't know, but it's consistent with this idea that Bills could play with one linebacker.   If you're taking run stopping linebackers off the field, then the defensive backs have to be run stoppers.)

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

I don't care so much what the draft profiles were.  I think McDermott is building to a model he thinks is what's needed in the modern NFL.   He wants speed and athleticism and doesn't think size is that important.   I'm not saying that's right or wrong, it's just what I think he's doing.   He requires speed, athleticism, brains, and aggression in the middle.   Edmunds' size was an added feature, a plus, but not essential to what McDermott is looking for.  Edmunds turned out never to have the aggression.  Williams has it all, with the brains yet to be determined - can he play the position?  I don't think McDermott cares very much that he doesn't have the size Edmunds has.  

 

So you think that even though McD said that Williams won't be playing MLB, the he in fact will be playing MLB?  
 

Well, OK.  I'll take McD's word for it however.   I'm not sure what to say otherwise other than if a player's not suited to a position, then it's likely he's not suited to a position.  

 

You say what you think that McD is doing, but then ignore what he's said.  I'm not sure that's a wise way to form opinions as to what will happen.  Do you?  

 

I guess time will tell.  

 

 

[PBF81]

54 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Because amateur scouts with a website and a professional looking for specific traits for a specific defensive scheme are the same thing. McD himself has even said Williams will get looks at MLB once he learns the defense. 

 

Amateur Scouts?  nfl.com?  All the major draft profilers that do that for a living?   ... LOL  

 

He did?  I recall reading the opposite.  Do you have any sources for those quotes from camp? 
 

I'll give you that he said that earlier in the offseason prior to training camp starting.  But I don't believe that Williams was in contention for the role in Camp, I'm not even sure he got any reps at MLB?  Did he?  

 

Even the football media was questioning what McD was thinking as well.  It's definitely odd to suggest that a player that not a single notable draft profile, if any at all, said was capable of playing a position, yet that a coach declares that he'll be playing that position.  I'm guessing that this falls right in line with Oliver being the next Aaron Donald.  

 

McD's recent statements have indicated that Williams will not be given a chance to start at MLB.  Whether he changes his mind once again is anyone's guess.  Tells me that it's questionable as to whether McD even knows what he's doing at this point with that hole in the middle of the D.   Speaking for myself, it doesn't exactly inspire confidence.  

 

Here's a piece on it;   https://billswire.usatoday.com/2023/07/27/buffalo-bills-dorian-williams-training-camp-brandon-beane/

 

You and Shaw aren't arguing with me, take it up with McD.  And FWIW, Williams was Milano's backup on the only depth chart that they've released to date.  

 

 

Edited August 11, 2023 by PBF81

[Dr. Who]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

I don't care so much what the draft profiles were.  I think McDermott is building to a model he thinks is what's needed in the modern NFL.   He wants speed and athleticism and doesn't think size is that important.   I'm not saying that's right or wrong, it's just what I think he's doing.   He requires speed, athleticism, brains, and aggression in the middle.   Edmunds' size was an added feature, a plus, but not essential to what McDermott is looking for.  Edmunds turned out never to have the aggression.  Williams has it all, with the brains yet to be determined - can he play the position?  I don't think McDermott cares very much that he doesn't have the size Edmunds has.  

Folks who are already writing him off as a future MLB are presumptuous, imo. If you listen to Bobby Babich's recent interview, it's clear they are looking for a mix of sufficient size and strength with speed to match the way offenses are currently configured. Some of the folks complaining in this thread are still probably fuming that we traded a fourth to move up and grab Kincaid. I'm guessing a contingent that wanted Jack Campbell badly are going to sulk all season and a few will perversely relish signs of deficiency at the position. It seems evident that Beane and McDermott concluded that they could make up for caliber of player with scheme at MLB. It was more important to improve the oline and add a pass receiving threat. I think that was the right priority, and I also hope that McDermott attacks a lot more than Frazier did. 

[PBF81]

10 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Folks who are already writing him off as a future MLB are presumptuous, imo. 

 

Many, if not most, would argue that it's presumptuous to think that someone of Williams' stature and abilities could play MLB in the NFL.  Not me per se, but pretty much every scout that contributed to his draft profile.  

 

Playing MLB at Tulane is a whole lot different than playing MLB in the NFL.   They said similar re: Bernard last season.  Did Williams even play MLB at Tulane at all?  My understanding is that he was the WLB there, which is why he's backing up Milano.  

 

IMO most people are simply rendering inconceivable that they simply didn't plan very well for Edmunds' departure.  I'm not sure what that possibility is out of the question.  

 

 

[oldmanfan]

32 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

So you think that even though McD said that Williams won't be playing MLB, the he in fact will be playing MLB?  
 

Well, OK.  I'll take McD's word for it however.   I'm not sure what to say otherwise other than if a player's not suited to a position, then it's likely he's not suited to a position.  

 

You say what you think that McD is doing, but then ignore what he's said.  I'm not sure that's a wise way to form opinions as to what will happen.  Do you?  

 

I guess time will tell.  

 

 

Yes time will tell and what Shaw clearly said, and I believe Beane as well, is that for now he’ll be outside.  What happens next year will be seen then.

24 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Amateur Scouts?  nfl.com?  All the major draft profilers that do that for a living?   ... LOL  

 

He did?  I recall reading the opposite.  Do you have any sources for those quotes from camp? 
 

I'll give you that he said that earlier in the offseason prior to training camp starting.  But I don't believe that Williams was in contention for the role in Camp, I'm not even sure he got any reps at MLB?  Did he?  

 

Even the football media was questioning what McD was thinking as well.  It's definitely odd to suggest that a player that not a single notable draft profile, if any at all, said was capable of playing a position, yet that a coach declares that he'll be playing that position.  I'm guessing that this falls right in line with Oliver being the next Aaron Donald.  

 

McD's recent statements have indicated that Williams will not be given a chance to start at MLB.  Whether he changes his mind once again is anyone's guess.  Tells me that it's questionable as to whether McD even knows what he's doing at this point with that hole in the middle of the D.   Speaking for myself, it doesn't exactly inspire confidence.  

 

Here's a piece on it;   https://billswire.usatoday.com/2023/07/27/buffalo-bills-dorian-williams-training-camp-brandon-beane/

 

You and Shaw aren't arguing with me, take it up with McD.  And FWIW, Williams was Milano's backup on the only depth chart that they've released to date.  

 

 

He’s knows exactly what he’s doing.  You thinking you know more about how NFL defenses work than McD is pretty funny.  Funny bizarre, not funny ha-ha.

[PBF81]

10 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

You thinking you know more about how NFL defenses work than McD is pretty funny.  Funny bizarre, not funny ha-ha.

 

What's funnier is you posturing to suggest that I said something that I didn't say or think.  

 

I said the entire football media questioned him.  Take it up with them.   I am merely doing the same as them, pointing out the inconsistencies in his statements.  Take that up with him.  

 

I'm relying on what numerous other NFL scouts, GMs, and others perhaps even more knowledgeable than McD, despite the fact that I realize many here think that there isn't a coach out there that's smarter than McD besides Reid, have said.  Pardon me for doing that.  LOL  

 

Honesly, some of you ... 

 

Can't even have a simple discussion without middle school inuendo.  

 

 

10 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Yes time will tell and what Shaw clearly said, and I believe Beane as well, is that for now he’ll be outside.  

 

And here's what Shaw "clearly said;"  

 

Quote

He (McD) requires speed, athleticism, brains, and aggression in the middle.   ...   Williams has it all, with the brains yet to be determined - can he play the position?  I don't think McDermott cares very much that he doesn't have the size Edmunds has.  

 

Pretty clear.  I'm not sure he needs you to defend his statements.  

 

 

Edited August 11, 2023 by PBF81