Who else is in the let’s get Gabe Davis signed to an extension camp?

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Harty and Sherfield certainly don't seem to be great pieces either. In short, the Bills WR core is not dynamic, explosive, or elite. Pretty disappointing thus far. 

Sherfield averages 10 yards per game in his career. I guess he's a fine blocker, but behind Diggs its the same old trash it's been since 2020.

 

I think Emmanuel Sanders 2 years retired could call Beane and immediately be WR2/3 AGAIN. Inexcusable.

[Thurman#1]

4 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Harty and Sherfield certainly don't seem to be great pieces either. In short, the Bills WR core is not dynamic, explosive, or elite. Pretty disappointing thus far. 

I'd be surprised if Davis reaches those numbers. We will see 

 

I've seen enough to move on from Davis. The Bills need an upgrade for sure. The only way is advocate for keep Davis is on the cheap due WR3 pay. That's what he is. 

 

 

Sorry, dude, but again, saying Davis is a #3 is just dumb. It says far more about you and your preconceptions than it does about Davis. #3s produce like #3s. That's how you know they're #3s. #2 like Davis produce like #2s. That's what he did last year and he's well on his way this year to significant improvement.

 

The Bills pass catchers look plenty good. They spent far more resources on TE this year than they did on WRs, and that shows but there's nothing wrong with it. It looks like it will give defenses plenty more good options to deal with.

 

They produced enough to win every game this year, and it would have amounted to more if Allen hadn't had the horrible decisions against the Jets that lost us that game.

 

An upgrade, at a reasonable level of compensation, is never a bad thing. They don't need it, but it wouldn't hurt. It wouldn't hurt anywhere on the team, really, Most needed are probably OL and tackle in particular and replacing the older guys at safety as we move forward.

 

 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Ok improvement here. No separation but at least he’s catching the football when open.

 

 

Edited September 29, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Thurman#1]

14 hours ago, BananaB said:

He’s getting over 90% of snaps and your content with a 2 and 1 catch games? Doesn’t matter what the 3,4 and 5 WRs are doing in limited time, it what’s gabe isn’t doing while getting a huge portion of the snaps.

 

 

It's not that he's content with a 2 and a 1 catch game. It's that everyone - except apparently you - understands that 2 and 1 catch games happen sometimes in the NFL, particularly for guys who aren't their team's number one option at WR.

 

JuJu Smith Schuster had three last year and he WAS their number one option in KC. Valdez-Scantling was their #2 in KC and last year he had 8 games with 2 receptions or less, and he has two so far this year, but less than half of Gabe's yards, and zero TDs to Gabe's two.

 

How come you're only talking about receptions and ignoring yards and TDs and ....

 

... Oh. That's why. Ignore the positive and stress the negative, hunh? Gotcha.

 

But even if you ignore it, Gabe is still kicking butt in TDs and doing very well in yards.

[BananaB]

12 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Sorry, dude, but again, saying Davis is a #3 is just dumb. It says far more about you and your preconceptions than it does about Davis. #3s produce like #3s. That's how you know they're #3s. #2 like Davis produce like #2s. That's what he did last year and he's well on his way this year to significant improvement.

 

The Bills pass catchers look plenty good. They spent far more resources on TE this year than they did on WRs, and that shows but there's nothing wrong with it. It looks like it will give defenses plenty more good options to deal with.

 

They produced enough to win every game this year, and it would have amounted to more if Allen hadn't had the horrible decisions against the Jets that lost us that game.

 

An upgrade, at a reasonable level of compensation, is never a bad thing. They don't need it, but it wouldn't hurt. It wouldn't hurt anywhere on the team, really, Most needed are probably OL and tackle in particular and replacing the older guys at safety as we move forward.

 

 

 

Bills WRs room hasn’t really improved from last year, that’s why Davis is still the #2. Beane brought vets in that he hoped would suddenly become more then they are, just liked he has done with the OL for a number of years. An upgrade from Davis would make a huge difference in how teams game planning to play our offense. Gabes a one trick pony at this point. Every few games he’ll have a good outing but there just isn’t enough of those games out him. I think he is holding the O back myself. 

[PBF81]

9 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Have you seen this years draft class of receivers Xavier Worthy who is currently the 5th best receiver prospect would have been the top receiver taken in last Aprils draft 

 

Well, let's get one in here then.

 

I'm 6 years of Beane it hasn't happened yet 

 

 

[ProcessTruster]

This years draft is forecasted to be deep in WRs (also QB, T, etc); just a great draft class for offense in general.   

So I'm guessing with the cap the way it is they do a Tremaine on Davis and draft a WR.  

[PBF81]

5 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

So pro-football-reference has this handy feature.  If you check "toggle per game statistics", you can then sort it any way you like.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2023/receiving.htm

 

If we sort it on "receptions" with "per game" enabled, we can see that Davis is #89 amoung receivers.

Touchdowns, 26th, 1st downs 29th

 

He is still  near the top in yards per reception, top 10.  His catch % so far is better than last season, 60%.

 

I expect that if one sets the parameters just right, you can manage to discern an impact no other player is having, but the above might suggest that there are quite a few receivers having a good impact.

 

 

 

 

PFR has quite a few more statistical tools than that.  I've been using them since they came out years ago.  My go-to site for independent analysis.  Great site.  I have caught errors there however and let them know.  They're good at getting back too.  

 

So are you bullish on Davis then too?  

 

Everyone's hammering on him, then comes your post.  LOL 

 

 

5 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Harty and Sherfield certainly don't seem to be great pieces either. In short, the Bills WR core is not dynamic, explosive, or elite. Pretty disappointing thus far. 

 

I'm probably one of the few that's not surprised.

 

You know my takes in Sheffield on particular.  

 

 

5 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

I'd be surprised if Davis reaches those numbers. We will see 

 

I've seen enough to move on from Davis. The Bills need an upgrade for sure. The only way is advocate for keep Davis is on the cheap due WR3 pay. That's what he is. 

 

I won't be surprised at all, but who knows, anything could happen.  

 

Whatever he does or whether it's worthy of everyone's praise as a #2 aside, he serves a significant role at absolute minimum, and it makes an impact.  

 

People arguing against that are pissing into the wind.  

 

 

[Thurman#1]

8 minutes ago, BananaB said:

Bills WRs room hasn’t really improved from last year, that’s why Davis is still the #2. Beane brought vets in that he hoped would suddenly become more then they are, just liked he has done with the OL for a number of years. An upgrade from Davis would make a huge difference in how teams game planning to play our offense. Gabes a one trick pony at this point. Every few games he’ll have a good outing but there just isn’t enough of those games out him. I think he is holding the O back myself. 

 

 

Sorry, man, that's dopey on the face of it. 

 

He's got two TDs. How many teams have their #2 with more than 2 TDs? That would be zero.

 

He's got 159 yards. How many teams have their #2 with more than 159 yards? Eleven. That puts us above average for #2 WR yards. 

 

He's the #2 because he's producing like a #2. This really ain't rocket science.

 

An upgrade from Davis won't be that easy to find without paying a lot or using an early pick. Gabe is not a one-trick pony, he's a guy who is really good at the deeper routes and is absolutely excellent at scramble drill catches and solid at intermediate balls as well.

 

He's producing like a #2. Getting a better #2 would be a slight upgrade, not all that big of one.

 

As for the guys we brought in ... dude, it's been THREE GAMES!!!! Give it a bit of time. We might find them disappointing but it's way too early to say at this point.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Came into the season with 3 players in my doghouse. Ed Oliver, Gabe Davis, and Spencer Brown.

 

Ed Oliver is playing his tail off right now. Best I’ve seen him.

 

Spencer seems slightly improved, mostly because of a lot of scheming help. Run blocking looks good.

 

Gabriel Davis. Ugh. Same guy. He’s firmly in my sights. I need more from him. 

[Rocbillsfan1]

People need to calm down. He had 1 catch last game, and week before most of his catches came on extended plays. I’d like to get a wr who gets open and separation on time. Plus should start to think about diggs getting older and falling back into a 1b type of wr. 

Edited September 29, 2023 by Rocbillsfan1

[newcam2012]

16 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Sorry, man, that's dopey on the face of it. 

 

He's got two TDs. How many teams have their #2 with more than 2 TDs? That would be zero.

 

He's got 159 yards. How many teams have their #2 with more than 159 yards? Eleven. That puts us above average for #2 WR yards. 

 

He's the #2 because he's producing like a #2. This really ain't rocket science.

 

An upgrade from Davis won't be that easy to find without paying a lot or using an early pick. Gabe is not a one-trick pony, he's a guy who is really good at the deeper routes and is absolutely excellent at scramble drill catches and solid at intermediate balls as well.

 

He's producing like a #2. Getting a better #2 would be a slight upgrade, not all that big of one.

 

As for the guys we brought in ... dude, it's been THREE GAMES!!!! Give it a bit of time. We might find them disappointing but it's way too early to say at this point.

This really only tells part of the picture. A half truth if you will. 

 

Gabe's numbers you refer to are a three game sample. Can't the same logic be used with regards to the others? You can't have your cake and eat it too. 

 

In this fans eyes Gabe is a mediocre WR2. He's cheap now and that's significant because Beane is up against a tight cap. He certainly isn't worthy of big money come next year. It would be a huge mistake if Beane allocates big money here.

 

Gabe is 100% replaceable. I disagree that a won't be easy to upgrade the position. I disagree that getting better WR2 would only be a slight upgrade.

 

Come playoff time Diggs will likely get taken right out of the game. That's largely because Gabe isn't a very good WR2. He has a limited route tree and can't sperate quickly. That's pretty much indisputable. The KC game was anomaly. The guy very rarely wins contested passes and has some issues with drops. Disappears in many games or is unproductive. In short, he's not consistent or reliable as a WR2. His best asset is breaking off routes and Allen finding him. 

 

I watch Addison and Flowers and say damn I wish they were in a Bills' uniform. Beane could have moved up to get one of them. Evans or DHop were possible alternatives as well. Next year, there will be more choices. The opportunity will be there to upgrade the position.

 

Lastly, I'd argue with strong validity that Allen makes Gabe successful. Not vice versa. Gabe would be an absolute fill in with a mediocre QB throwing him the ball. An upgrade to the WR2 position would be huge for the Bills offense. 

 

When you paint the whole picture one can only conclude that this will be Gabe's last year in a Bills uniform. 

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, ProcessTruster said:

This years draft is forecasted to be deep in WRs (also QB, T, etc); just a great draft class for offense in general.   

So I'm guessing with the cap the way it is they do a Tremaine on Davis and draft a WR.  

And let Dawkins walk. Draft WR and OT 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

Gabe is fine if we get a more consistently targeted #2 receiver. The long-term plan is for that player to be Dalton Kincaid. Would be great if Kincaid could become that heavily targeted receiver this year but he's going to have to eventually start running routes deeper than 3 yards down the field. 

 

So far this year, Gabe's target shar percentage is actually down 3% year over year. I think that is good. We want the offense to target Gabe at the right times. However, Diggs target share is up 2% year over year. Diggs is a great player but I'm not sure we need him getting nearly 1 out of every 3 targets. Ultimately what the offense needs is for the TE's to average more than 6.5 ypr. Both Knox and Kincaid have 12 targets each on the season which i think is good number to be at but 6.5 ypr is dreadful. Got to get that up at least into the 8.5 range. 

30 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

I watch Addison and Flowers and say damn I wish they were in a Bills' uniform. Beane could have moved up to get one of them. Evans or DHop were possible alternatives as well. Next year, there will be more choices. The opportunity will be there to upgrade the position.

 

 

We could have. But the Bills have invested in Kincaid. He showed well in the preseason. So far in the regular season he has showed good hands. But they have him running 3-5 yard routes. 

[BananaB]

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

It's not that he's content with a 2 and a 1 catch game. It's that everyone - except apparently you - understands that 2 and 1 catch games happen sometimes in the NFL, particularly for guys who aren't their team's number one option at WR.

 

JuJu Smith Schuster had three last year and he WAS their number one option in KC. Valdez-Scantling was their #2 in KC and last year he had 8 games with 2 receptions or less, and he has two so far this year, but less than half of Gabe's yards, and zero TDs to Gabe's two.

 

How come you're only talking about receptions and ignoring yards and TDs and ....

 

... Oh. That's why. Ignore the positive and stress the negative, hunh? Gotcha.

 

But even if you ignore it, Gabe is still kicking butt in TDs and doing very well in yards.

And Juju ain’t on the Chiefs anymore is he. Gabe scores touchdowns but also stalls drives that ultimately lead to less points. 

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Sorry, man, that's dopey on the face of it. 

 

He's got two TDs. How many teams have their #2 with more than 2 TDs? That would be zero.

 

He's got 159 yards. How many teams have their #2 with more than 159 yards? Eleven. That puts us above average for #2 WR yards. 

 

He's the #2 because he's producing like a #2. This really ain't rocket science.

 

An upgrade from Davis won't be that easy to find without paying a lot or using an early pick. Gabe is not a one-trick pony, he's a guy who is really good at the deeper routes and is absolutely excellent at scramble drill catches and solid at intermediate balls as well.

 

He's producing like a #2. Getting a better #2 would be a slight upgrade, not all that big of one.

 

As for the guys we brought in ... dude, it's been THREE GAMES!!!! Give it a bit of time. We might find them disappointing but it's way too early to say at this point.

It hasn’t just been 3 games, the problem has carried over from last year. 
 

Edited September 29, 2023 by BananaB

[Wayne Arnold]

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Ok improvement here. No separation but at least he’s catching the football when open.

 

His drop stopped a drive in its tracks (when it was still a game) and led to Josh's only interception.

 

Stop treating this guy with kid's gloves.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

45 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

His drop stopped a drive in its tracks (when it was still a game) and led to Josh's only interception.

 

Stop treating this guy with kid's gloves.

He’s had a drop. His catch % is up. So he is catching better. But still no separation. I don’t think he’s particularly a good WR anymore. I think he benefits from opportunity with a great QB.

[DapperCam]

Bills have a top-3 QB in the league, and should have a top-5 offense in the league (they have the past 3 years). It isn’t really fair to compare Davis to WR #2 on other teams. His stats should be better based on the offense that he’s in. Other WRs have Sam Howell and Zach Wilson throwing to them.

 

The only question you should ask, is if another WR were given the same reps in the Bills offense at Davis’ spot, would they perform better.

 

I think a lot of WRs would perform better, and it’s an obvious opportunity to upgrade.

[BillsVet]

10 hours ago, AuntieEm said:

If he stays healthy and has a great season then he earned the right to decide what's most important for him and his career.  If the Bills can't work a deal he will  accept then I wish him well and see who we sign or draft.  We have  QB capable of making talented players shine so there be options to replace him.  

 

There's this weird fixation on TBD and elsewhere that if Buffalo drafts a player and they're not completely a bust then they need to be re-signed.  It's a risk-averse mindset where the Bills can't possibly acquire a better player and need to retain the old one.  It happened with Edmunds and is happening now with Davis

 

It's also because McBeane have re-signed all the guys who haven't completely stunk or played a position of lower value since 2017: Tre, Dawkins, Milano, Josh, Taron Johnson, Oliver, and Knox.  People have gotten used to this approach and now assume it's the only one.  Well, no...it's part of what has them in cap trouble.  Because you can say it's nice to have a guy like Knox, but at 13M AAV?  Or, Dawkins at almost 15M AAV?   I get loyalty, but too much makes players comfortable.    

 

If Buffalo's gonna stay competitive, they're going to need to move on from some vets who aren't busts, but represent an opportunity for improvement.  At one time, Belichick used to trade guys like Richard Seymour, a HOF'er, to Oakland when they had mileage left.  Few saw that coming, but it was what was best for the team.  Beane needs to replace some of these home-grown types that can be improved on with 1st contract players who aren't impacting their cap.  Because no way is Davis worth an extension given the production.   

[Dopey]

16 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

@Alphadawg7 has potential because he is thinking it thru and trying to figure it out.    He shouldn't have believed for a second of this offseason that Gabe was anything more than what he's proven to be in his first 3 years because his deficiencies are not necessarily fixable.   Sometimes there just isn't enough talent.  But better to come to that realization late than never.   You on the other hand........you are just good with being wrong and defiant about it,  from what I've seen.

I'm sure @Alphadawg7 feels so much better knowing you think he has potential (whatever the hell that means 🤣). As for me, I have my opinions like you. We disagree on a lot and IMO, you're wrong as much, if not more than I am. Thanks for reading my input though.