Interesting NY Post article…claims Kincaid was Beane’s target days before the draft…

[1ManRaid]

I still find it mind boggling how seemingly still nobody around the league can fathom the idea of Beane actually wanting Kincaid.  They keep saying he panicked when there was the run on WRs he actually wanted and scrambled to grab what pass catcher was left.  I think everyone is still hung up on the TE label Kincaid has.  We gave a big money extension to Knox, so nobody can wrap their heads around us wanting another "just a TE".  They can understand goal line/bruiser vs speed vs pass catcher RBs, pass rush vs run stuffing vs coverage LBs, but all TEs are exactly the same and "heavy slot" is just too bizarre a concept for them.

[Nextmanup]

Doing deals to trade UP, and giving up assets in the process, in order to get "that 1 guy that you really like" is fundamentally BAD BUSINESS and not how to proceed, long term.

 

Beane likes doing this, which is one of his few weak points.

 

We'll hopefully find out what Kincaid is about this year, assuming McDermott will play him a ton, which he should.

 

 

 

[NoSaint]

5 hours ago, eball said:

The article is linked on the TBD news page.  Apparently the Giants and Bills had a deal in place to trade picks because Beane really wanted Kincaid, but Schoen nixed it on draft night to trade up and get their guy, and Beane had to then scramble to do a deal with Tampa and jump ahead of Dallas (whom everyone knew wanted a TE).

 

Anyway, I found it interesting that Kincaid was Beane’s target all along…

 

I suspect he had parameters in place on a few contingencies across a handful of guys

[Augie]

1 minute ago, Nextmanup said:

Doing deals to trade UP, and giving up assets in the process, in order to get "that 1 guy that you really like" is fundamentally BAD BUSINESS and not how to proceed, long term.

 

Beane likes doing this, which is one of his few weak points.

 

We'll hopefully find out what Kincaid is about this year, assuming McDermott will play him a ton, which he should.

 

 

 

 

We will save this post for when Kincaid gets elected into the HOF.   😋

 

I don’t think you can make blanket statements like that. Every situation is different, and I understand trying to get one STUD over two or three JAG’s. Was it worth trading up for Josh? 

[78thealltimegreat]

6 hours ago, eball said:

The article is linked on the TBD news page.  Apparently the Giants and Bills had a deal in place to trade picks because Beane really wanted Kincaid, but Schoen nixed it on draft night to trade up and get their guy, and Beane had to then scramble to do a deal with Tampa (edit: Jacksonville) and jump ahead of Dallas (whom everyone knew wanted a TE).

 

Anyway, I found it interesting that Kincaid was Beane’s target all along…

 

 

Good article it also shows that Brandon should be careful dealing with Schoen in the future. 

[machine gun kelly]

5 hours ago, colin said:

This is the second high profile trade w the gmen we failed to ink.  the first was to the 2nd pick in 2017 where we targeted allen.

 

big baller is so aggressive!

Colin, are you speaking about Josh Allen?  If so, you do remember Josh was drafted in 2018, not 17.  Mahomes was 17 and we traded down to get Tre, and KC received our pick at 10 for Mahomes.

[jkeerie]

7 hours ago, eball said:

The article is linked on the TBD news page.  Apparently the Giants and Bills had a deal in place to trade picks because Beane really wanted Kincaid, but Schoen nixed it on draft night to trade up and get their guy, and Beane had to then scramble to do a deal with Tampa (edit: Jacksonville) and jump ahead of Dallas (whom everyone knew wanted a TE).

 

Anyway, I found it interesting that Kincaid was Beane’s target all along…

 

 

Actually it all played out in the Bills 2023 draft embedded video.  Really good to view if you haven't already watched it.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

2 hours ago, 1ManRaid said:

I still find it mind boggling how seemingly still nobody around the league can fathom the idea of Beane actually wanting Kincaid.  They keep saying he panicked when there was the run on WRs he actually wanted and scrambled to grab what pass catcher was left.  I think everyone is still hung up on the TE label Kincaid has.  We gave a big money extension to Knox, so nobody can wrap their heads around us wanting another "just a TE".  They can understand goal line/bruiser vs speed vs pass catcher RBs, pass rush vs run stuffing vs coverage LBs, but all TEs are exactly the same and "heavy slot" is just too bizarre a concept for them.

 

The kid can catch - he's 6'4 250 and has huge hands.  He didn't run at the combine but he looks the Ertz part.  Knox is a solid player in that 50-75 target range, and his rookie year drops seem to have mostly been fixed.  2 athletic tight ends, one in line, one you can move around more, it can create mismatches and favorable run fits. 

 

I don't know what else you really want in a pass catcher on offense.  Speed i guess is the name of the game right now, but i'll take hands and a student of the game over that in most cases.  

Edited August 10, 2023 by Bleeding Bills Blue

[colin]

1 hour ago, machine gun kelly said:

Colin, are you speaking about Josh Allen?  If so, you do remember Josh was drafted in 2018, not 17.  Mahomes was 17 and we traded down to get Tre, and KC received our pick at 10 for Mahomes.

 

ya, that's true.  i'm thinking post 2017 season  it's been so long.

[1ManRaid]

3 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Doing deals to trade UP, and giving up assets in the process, in order to get "that 1 guy that you really like" is fundamentally BAD BUSINESS and not how to proceed, long term.

 

Beane likes doing this, which is one of his few weak points.

 

We'll hopefully find out what Kincaid is about this year, assuming McDermott will play him a ton, which he should.

 

 

 

 

You think the later round pick we gave up would have done more for us long term than upgrading our 1st rounder to the...(checks notes)...top pass catcher in the draft class who was generally considered to be a top 10 pick?

 

You're right, trading up in the 1st to "get our guy" really didn't work out long term with...(checks notes)...Josh Allen.

[NewEra]

3 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Doing deals to trade UP, and giving up assets in the process, in order to get "that 1 guy that you really like" is fundamentally BAD BUSINESS and not how to proceed, long term.

 

Beane likes doing this, which is one of his few weak points.

 

We'll hopefully find out what Kincaid is about this year, assuming McDermott will play him a ton, which he should.

 

 

 

Meanwhile- 2 time SB champions Brett Veach says that you are clueless as ever 

[716]

He just rehashed this again on Kyle Brandts Podcast. Guessing this is where the Post got it from since this aired yesterday:

 

 

 

[Nelius]

3 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Doing deals to trade UP, and giving up assets in the process, in order to get "that 1 guy that you really like" is fundamentally BAD BUSINESS and not how to proceed, long term.

 

Beane likes doing this, which is one of his few weak points.

 

 

So uh, this didn’t work with Josh Allen?

 

At some point you’re going to have to validate yours points instead of just throwing contrarian stuff at the wall. This “strategy”, if it is as obvious as you proclaim, has turned the franchise around.

[machine gun kelly]

40 minutes ago, colin said:

 

ya, that's true.  i'm thinking post 2017 season  it's been so long.

No worries brother and I wasn’t trying to be nit picky with you.

 

I know you love the Bills Colin.  I pay attention to the real Bills fans out there.

[1ManRaid]

1 hour ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

The kid can catch - he's 6'4 250 and has huge hands.  He didn't run at the combine but he looks the Ertz part.  Knox is a solid player in that 50-75 target range, and his rookie year drops seem to have mostly been fixed.  2 athletic tight ends, one in line, one you can move around more, it can create mismatches and favorable run fits. 

 

I don't know what else you really want in a pass catcher on offense.  Speed i guess is the name of the game right now, but i'll take hands and a student of the game over that in most cases.  

 

For some reason reminded me of my other point I forgot to mention.  I think another reason for this obsession with believing Beane didn't really want Kincaid is that this offseason more than any other in memory, people are DESPERATE for there to be problems in Buffalo.  They need to believe our window is closing and will grasp at any and all straws to maintain that delusion.  Confirmation bias everywhere.

 

- Beane didn't make a savvy move to get ahead of Dallas to take the TE he couldn't believe fell that far thanks to a run on WRs, he really is just a bad GM who panicked and wasted resources when the WRs he actually wanted were gone and he had to grasp at whatever best option was left.

- The Diggs "situation" isn't a big nothing burger that happens all the time, it's a sure sign he wants out of Buffalo and hates being here, trade is imminent.

- Josh Allen having a life outside of football including (gasp) having relationships isn't a normal part of life, it's a sign he'll be distracted and not committed to winning.  Playing golf is also ruining his arm.

- The Bills not fully compensating the contracts of Hines (off work accident) and Araiza (found to be innocent a year past no longer being with the team) aren't just how business in the NFL works, it's proof of the Bills being a scum organization that doesn't have their players' backs.

- Elam having to fight for the CB2 spot isn't a good problem to have in that our late rounders were hidden gems outplaying their status, he's just trash and another Beane draft bust.

- Etc etc etc with basically anything involving the Bills this offseason.

[Thurman#1]

15 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

 

It’s certainly possible - probable I’d say - that Beane had more than one target in the first round. A GM just can’t speak to that after the fact. The story always seems to be that they got the one player they were targeting in that spot. While we won’t ever know if Kincaid was #1 overall on his list (and he certainly could have been), we can be fairly certain that there wasn’t anyone else left that he wanted in the late first. He was going to try to move back if Dallas got Kincaid. 

 

 

Yeah, and it's clear that he wanted Kincaid more than any of the receivers that went in the early 20s. 

 

I don't see anything new in the Giants story, myself, at least not from the Bills perspective. He's gone over this in Imbedded and a few other places.

 

Surprised me, earlier, that he would've traded back rather than pick Nolan Smith. I liked him. But Beane is smarter and better at this than I would be, though that doesn't make him right every time. So far, picking Kincaid looks like a terrific decision.

Edited August 11, 2023 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

11 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Doing deals to trade UP, and giving up assets in the process, in order to get "that 1 guy that you really like" is fundamentally BAD BUSINESS and not how to proceed, long term.

 

Beane likes doing this, which is one of his few weak points.

 

We'll hopefully find out what Kincaid is about this year, assuming McDermott will play him a ton, which he should.

 

 

 

 

 

It's not bad business in all cases. Not at all. Trading away really important pieces, 1sts and 2nds for instance, is bad business if you're not trading up for a QB. That's the standard rule that the academics have made clear that the data supports. If trading up for a future franchise QB, it makes sense because there is often no other way to get a franchise QB candidate and without one it's nearly impossible to put yourself in good position to win a title.

 

Beane has not traded away big pieces, except when he was trading up to put himself in position to get Josh Allen.

 

If you look at the studies, Massey-Thaler and so on, that's the argument that they believe their studies bear out. Not that it's never a good decision to trade up. But that there are limited circumstances when it's a good decision. 

 

Beane gets this, and he so far has never made moves the statisticians would have called obviously bad business. He's not the guy who gave up a 1st the next year for Sammy Watkins.

 

 

[gonzo1105]

11 hours ago, 1ManRaid said:

I still find it mind boggling how seemingly still nobody around the league can fathom the idea of Beane actually wanting Kincaid.  They keep saying he panicked when there was the run on WRs he actually wanted and scrambled to grab what pass catcher was left.  I think everyone is still hung up on the TE label Kincaid has.  We gave a big money extension to Knox, so nobody can wrap their heads around us wanting another "just a TE".  They can understand goal line/bruiser vs speed vs pass catcher RBs, pass rush vs run stuffing vs coverage LBs, but all TEs are exactly the same and "heavy slot" is just too bizarre a concept for them.

There was a small group on this board who preferred Kincaid. I know you’re talking about the league in general but he got a top 10-15 player at what 25? He did well regardless of WR vs TE vs another position 
 

For the record: 

 

I wasn’t high on Elam or Torrence for the Bills and am a huge fan of Dorian Williams. 

[Fan in Chicago]

11 hours ago, NoSaint said:

I suspect he had parameters in place on a few contingencies across a handful of guys

Given that Beane was looking for a pass catcher in Rd1, imo he would have picked say Addison over Kincaid if both were available. And said the exact same thing he is saying about Kincaid

[Doc Brown]

11 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Doing deals to trade UP, and giving up assets in the process, in order to get "that 1 guy that you really like" is fundamentally BAD BUSINESS and not how to proceed, long term.

 

Beane likes doing this, which is one of his few weak points.

 

We'll hopefully find out what Kincaid is about this year, assuming McDermott will play him a ton, which he should.