MasterStrategist Posted August 28, 2023 Posted August 28, 2023 2 hours ago, Manther said: Ok, I like this and agree with most. Anything I disagree with are the tough choices and who knows what is best. Here are my questions. Once again, I like your thoughts. 1. Quessenbury. Does he make the team. I like his versatility. Is he good enough. I think he makies the 53. Do we want 8 or 9 Olinemen. 2. Von Miller. Before I get into D Linemen. Does Von Miller go on PUP and not be on the team AND not practice for 4 weeks. I am leaning to him on the 53 and maybe not playing for weeks, but, practicing. Him helping the team, teaching and pushing vs the 53rd player. I say no PUP. 3. D line. How many can you keep. You have 10 and Von Miller on PUP for 11. I have 12 very good D Linemen --> DE Kingsley Jonathan - I think he is very good and we can't get him to the PS. I also think he is better than others --> DE Shaq Lawson - I like him a lot and think he is very important. Vet minimum? I think so. I think we need to stash him on the PS and can --> Kingsley and Shaq are in the 53 category and where it gets tricky 4. Cam Lewis. I don't think he gets to the PS. I think he is better than most think. I think Cam needs to be on the 53. But, who do you cut instead. Tough call. 5. Baylon Spector. If you don't put him on PUP he needs to take a spot on the 53 and makes things harder. I agree he goes on PUP. 6. Adding Von Miller and Cam Lewis we need to cut 2 players. --> Shaq Lawson to PS, Kingsley Jonathan to 53 (even swap) --> AJ Klein to PS --> one other cut, not sure who it is. I think Quessenbury can be PS and who cares if he gets scooped up --> love the depth and talent --> Go Bills! This summarizes where I stand as well. Great post! 1. Cam: I think we keep him, make this work by keeping just 5 LBs on the 53. Stash some LBs on P/S for weekly call ups/special teams 2. Jonathan: I think he gives us more than Shaq, in pass rush. Shaq's attitude/setting edge is valuable too though. In game situations, just don't see Jonathan being ahead of Floyd, AJE, Groot or Boogie in pass rush situations. Whereas, Shaq is probably our best run stopper at DE (not named Groot or Von). I'd try to sneak him onto the P/S, or if a team comes calling then shop him 3. Spector: my guess he makes the 53, then we put him on IR. Someone like Reid gets cut then immediately re signed 4. Q: I think he's a liability when in the game. I'd cut him and put on P/S. Backup RT is the primary need coming from cuts. MLB* is something I could see via trade but likely after season gets into full swing. *MLB: I think we play more "dime" this year (passing downs). Keeps our need for a 6th LB vs secondary in check (hence keeping Cam). If we look to improve at MLB, I think it's a trade deadline move...only after we see what Bernard/Dodson brings. We're limited now, best option is to adapt some subpackages that use current personell (ie: Neal or Rapp in dime) 1 Quote
Alphadawg7 Posted August 28, 2023 Posted August 28, 2023 On 8/8/2023 at 9:51 AM, GunnerBill said: I am pretty convinced Gilliam makes it. Honestly I would call him a lock 2 Quote
ColoradoBills Posted August 28, 2023 Posted August 28, 2023 (edited) 17 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said: Final Prediction including Practice Squad: - This is only based on players who are here and not potential moves. At the very least, there will be a surprise or two on the Practice Squad from somewhere else. I believe it's also very likely Case Keenum will be brought back from Houston to be the Backup and also possible a vet is signed in Van Demark's roster spot. QB: Josh Allen #17 Kyle Allen #9 RB: James Cook #4 Damien Harris #22 Latavius Murray #28 - Reggie Gilliam #41 WR: Stefon Diggs #14 Gabe Davis #13 Deonte Harty #11 Trent Sherfield #16 Khalil Shakir #10 Justin Shorter #18 TE: Dawson Knox #88 Dalton Kincaid #86 Quintin Morris #85 OL: Dion Dawkins #73 Connor McGovern #66 Mitch Morse #60 O'Cyrus Torrence #64 Spencer Brown #79 - Ryan Bates #71 David Edwards #76 David Quessenberry #77 Ryan Van Demark #74 DE: Leonard Floyd #56 Greg Rousseau #50 Shaq Lawson #90 A.J. Epenesa #57 Carlos Basham Jr. #55 DT: Ed Oliver #91 DaQuan Jones #92 Poona Ford #98 Jordan Phillips #97 Tim Settle #99 LB: Matt Milano #58 Tyrel Dodson #53 Terrel Bernard #43 Dorian Williams #42 A.J. Klein #52 Tyler Matakevitch #44 CB: Tre'Davious White #27 Kaiir Elam #24 Dane Jackson #30 Taron Johnson #7 Christian Benford #47 Siran Neal #33 S: Jordan Poyer #21 Micah Hyde #23 Taylor Rapp #20 Damar Hamlin #3 ST: Tyler Bass #2 Sam Martin #8 Reid Ferguson #69 PUP Reserved: DE Von Miller #40 LB Baylon Spector #54 Practice Squad: QB Matt Barkley RB Darrynton Evans WR Andy Isabella WR KeeSean Johnson WR Tyrell Shavers OL Alec Anderson OL Ike Boettger OL Nick Broeker OL Richard Gouraige DE Kingsley Jonathan DT Eli Ankou LB Travin Howard CB Cam Lewis CB Alex Austin CB Ja'Marcus Ingram S Dean Marlowe Pretty much agree with the 53 Roster. Maybe one surprise would be a LB (maybe Klien) cut and someone from another team brought in. Who do you have cut from the DL when Von Miller returns off of PUP? Whoever that is might not make the initial 53 IMO. That I guess would be dependent on how close they think Miller is. I'm not sold on Baylon Spector going to IR. He might be healthy enough to avoid that. If Khalil Shakir isn't healthy enough for the Jets maybe he goes to IR and one of the PS WRs makes the 53 as a cut and resign. The PS will get churned like it always does, but I see Barkley cut an someone else brought in. He brings nothing to the team now. Don't see 3 WRs. Shavers won't make it. (Unless one of the others end up on the 53 like I said above.) I'd trade out Evans for Ty Johnson at RB. I also think at least 1 and as many as 3 of the PS players could be picked up by other teams. Edited August 28, 2023 by ColoradoBills Quote
Blackbeard Posted August 28, 2023 Posted August 28, 2023 Serious question, and excuse my ignorance: If Barkley is better than K. Allen, why would we cut Barkley? Is K. Allen a cheaper option? Quote
ColoradoBills Posted August 28, 2023 Posted August 28, 2023 4 minutes ago, Blackbeard said: Serious question, and excuse my ignorance: If Barkley is better than K. Allen, why would we cut Barkley? Is K. Allen a cheaper option? The money isn't much different. Costs almost $200k more to cut Allen. I would hate to wager which is better, Barkley is pushing 33 years old and has a weak arm. ONE of them has to go, my personal preference is Barkley (to start). Quote
Matt_In_NH Posted August 28, 2023 Author Posted August 28, 2023 15 minutes ago, Blackbeard said: Serious question, and excuse my ignorance: If Barkley is better than K. Allen, why would we cut Barkley? Is K. Allen a cheaper option? Who is better is subjective and not based on what you saw in preseason games. What matters is the people deciding who is better. They could also factor other things in such as likliehhod of a player getting poached. Quote
Braedenstearns Posted August 28, 2023 Posted August 28, 2023 (edited) Before preseason game number three, I would’ve said that they would keep Isabella over Shakir. Now with that fumble that Isabella had, I think it’s a 50-50 tossup. Isabella in the games seem to be catching balls Well, as Shakir will make a great grab… And then drop an easy pass just like Gabe will do. Curious to see what everyone’s thoughts are on if Shakir goes to the PS, and Isabella makes the roster. Isabella has punt return and kick returning abilities as well, even though I didn’t see that much flashing as we all would’ve hoped. I am getting tired of the drop passes between receivers… Mostly Gabe, but those couple of easy caught passes that Shakir dropped In game 2 I believe has me leaning towards wanting him on the PS Edited August 28, 2023 by Braedenstearns Quote
Warriorspikes51 Posted August 28, 2023 Posted August 28, 2023 QB2 Colt McCoy (Kyle Allen and Barkley to PS) MLB1 Christian Kirksey OT3 Yosh Nijman via trade Wishful thinking perhaps 1 Quote
BillsFanForever19 Posted August 29, 2023 Posted August 29, 2023 (edited) 14 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said: Look pretty realistic. The LB position has too much quantity and no quality after Milano. Would really like to add a starting caliber player there. Dodson should be cut in my opinion, but he likely won't be. He is horrific in coverage I'd also cut Quessenberry and keep Gouraige on the roster I can see Basham being traded for a late pick and Kingsley Jonathan making the team. When it comes to Linebacker, as I've said in the past, I think it's extremely unlikely that a.) a Starting caliber player is going to become available and b.) that McDermott is going to start a guy there that would be learning on the fly. This is a coach who notoriously brings new players along very slowly. He was saying Nyheim Hines needed more practice time and more time with the playbook months after getting him, as to why he wasn't getting more reps. And RB is one of the easiest positions to transition. Play calling MLB is one of the hardest. I think one of the main reasons we went with the guys we went with and re-signed AJ Klein amongst other FA options is because they all have familiarity in the system. Dodson won't be cut. He started both Pre-Season games. After he was pulled in favor of Klein in Game 2, he was back in the Starting Lineup for Game 3. At worst, he'll be a reserve. You don't go from Starting to cut. Quessenberry also won't be cut. Save for a unlikely veteran OT signing just before the start of the season. They aren't going to go with two players who have a combined 0 snaps in Regular season play as the backup OT's. Basham being moved is a possibility. His starting the game may have been a showcase move. Though I wouldn't be surprised, I don't necessarily expect it as Floyd, Epenesa, and Lawson are all on the last years of their deal. 12 hours ago, Manther said: Ok, I like this and agree with most. Anything I disagree with are the tough choices and who knows what is best. Here are my questions. Once again, I like your thoughts. 1. Quessenbury. Does he make the team. I like his versatility. Is he good enough. I think he makies the 53. Do we want 8 or 9 Olinemen. 2. Von Miller. Before I get into D Linemen. Does Von Miller go on PUP and not be on the team AND not practice for 4 weeks. I am leaning to him on the 53 and maybe not playing for weeks, but, practicing. Him helping the team, teaching and pushing vs the 53rd player. I say no PUP. 3. D line. How many can you keep. You have 10 and Von Miller on PUP for 11. I have 12 very good D Linemen --> DE Kingsley Jonathan - I think he is very good and we can't get him to the PS. I also think he is better than others --> DE Shaq Lawson - I like him a lot and think he is very important. Vet minimum? I think so. I think we need to stash him on the PS and can --> Kingsley and Shaq are in the 53 category and where it gets tricky 4. Cam Lewis. I don't think he gets to the PS. I think he is better than most think. I think Cam needs to be on the 53. But, who do you cut instead. Tough call. 5. Baylon Spector. If you don't put him on PUP he needs to take a spot on the 53 and makes things harder. I agree he goes on PUP. 6. Adding Von Miller and Cam Lewis we need to cut 2 players. --> Shaq Lawson to PS, Kingsley Jonathan to 53 (even swap) --> AJ Klein to PS --> one other cut, not sure who it is. I think Quessenbury can be PS and who cares if he gets scooped up --> love the depth and talent --> Go Bills! On Q - as I said above, regardless of how he's looked, the team isn't going to go with two OT's who have never played a down in the league as the backups. If Shell hadn't retired or Doyle hadn't gotten hurt, maybe they'd cut him. But at this point, they're going to keep him. Miller is definitely going to stay on PUP, in my opinion. There was a tweet from a Doctor like a week ago commenting on the work he was doing and said that he's not far enough along as he expected and even pontificated he may have had a minor setback. They're going to take their time with him. Cam Lewis comes down to a numbers game. I don't see us keeping 11 DB's on the 53. And he's the 11th DB, in my opinion. I don't agree that we can't sneak him on the Practice Squad. Fans play the "there's no way they'll make the PS" game every offseason and 99 times out of 100, we do. It isn't as prevalent that teams sign players from other teams to their 53 before the start of the season as is made out to be. And I don't think Cam would be one of those players. He's been a PS guy first for us for years. He gets a lot of usage because he's the first guy up if there's an injury at any position on the Secondary. I think it will be the same for him this season. Baylon Spector.... I don't know. Honestly, I think his injury is a blessing in disguise for him. Otherwise, I saw him as a cut that would end up on the Practice Squad. We aren't going to keep more than 6 LB's. Going into Training Camp, I felt drafting another LB this year as well as re-signing Dodson and Klein had him on the outside looking in. Obviously Milano isn't going anywhere. Bernard and Williams being Day 2 Draft Picks over the past two seasons are going to get time and are safe. Matakevitch is our Special Teams captain, in a year where we lost multiple Special Teamers, so he's safe. So that leaves 2 spots for Dodson, Klein, and Spector. Spector did get a run with the 1's early in Camp when they were giving all the guys who weren't Milano or Dorian a shot. But after that, he was exclusively running with the 3rd or 4th teams. Which given how Dodson has performed and what Klein is, really isn't saying much for how they viewed him. And with Bernard missing most of Camp and all of the Pre-Season and Dodson underperforming, Klein needs to be on the 53. Can't have just Dodson and a returning from injury Bernard there. With PUP though, there's a chance after 4 games there's an injury somewhere and Baylon Spector gets put on the 53 instead of the PS. Kingsley is a decent player. But he's like Cam Lewis for us or Brandin Bryant when he was here. A decent hand that we call upon first if there's an injury. But there's 5 DE's on the roster who are valued more right now, 6 when Von returns and we only keep 5 max there. It's a numbers game with him too. Save for a surprise trade of Basham, there's no spot for him. Edited August 29, 2023 by BillsFanForever19 1 Quote
Manther Posted August 29, 2023 Posted August 29, 2023 15 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said: When it comes to Linebacker, as I've said in the past, I think it's extremely unlikely that a.) a Starting caliber player is going to become available and b.) that McDermott is going to start a guy there that would be learning on the fly. This is a coach who notoriously brings new players along very slowly. He was saying Nyheim Hines needed more practice time and more time with the playbook months after getting him, as to why he wasn't getting more reps. And RB is one of the easiest positions to transition. Play calling MLB is one of the hardest. I think one of the main reasons we went with the guys we went with and re-signed AJ Klein amongst other FA options is because they all have familiarity in the system. Dodson won't be cut. He started both Pre-Season games. After he was pulled in favor of Klein in Game 2, he was back in the Starting Lineup for Game 3. At worst, he'll be a reserve. You don't go from Starting to cut. Quessenberry also won't be cut. Save for a unlikely veteran OT signing just before the start of the season. They aren't going to go with two players who have a combined 0 snaps in Regular season play as the backup OT's. Basham being moved is a possibility. His starting the game may have been a showcase move. Though I wouldn't be surprised, I don't necessarily expect it as Floyd, Epenesa, and Lawson are all on the last years of their deal. On Q - as I said above, regardless of how he's looked, the team isn't going to go with two OT's who have never played a down in the league as the backups. If Shell hadn't retired or Doyle hadn't gotten hurt, maybe they'd cut him. But at this point, they're going to keep him. Miller is definitely going to stay on PUP, in my opinion. There was a tweet from a Doctor like a week ago commenting on the work he was doing and said that he's not far enough along as he expected and even pontificated he may have had a minor setback. They're going to take their time with him. Cam Lewis comes down to a numbers game. I don't see us keeping 11 DB's on the 53. And he's the 11th DB, in my opinion. I don't agree that we can't sneak him on the Practice Squad. Fans play the "there's no way they'll make the PS" game every offseason and 99 times out of 100, we do. It isn't as prevalent that teams sign players from other teams to their 53 before the start of the season as is made out to be. And I don't think Cam would be one of those players. He's been a PS guy first for us for years. He gets a lot of usage because he's the first guy up if there's an injury at any position on the Secondary. I think it will be the same for him this season. Baylon Spector.... I don't know. Honestly, I think his injury is a blessing in disguise for him. Otherwise, I saw him as a cut that would end up on the Practice Squad. We aren't going to keep more than 6 LB's. Going into Training Camp, I felt drafting another LB this year as well as re-signing Dodson and Klein had him on the outside looking in. Obviously Milano isn't going anywhere. Bernard and Williams being Day 2 Draft Picks over the past two seasons are going to get time and are safe. Matakevitch is our Special Teams captain, in a year where we lost multiple Special Teamers, so he's safe. So that leaves 2 spots for Dodson, Klein, and Spector. Spector did get a run with the 1's early in Camp when they were giving all the guys who weren't Milano or Dorian a shot. But after that, he was exclusively running with the 3rd or 4th teams. Which given how Dodson has performed and what Klein is, really isn't saying much for how they viewed him. And with Bernard missing most of Camp and all of the Pre-Season and Dodson underperforming, Klein needs to be on the 53. Can't have just Dodson and a returning from injury Bernard there. With PUP though, there's a chance after 4 games there's an injury somewhere and Baylon Spector gets put on the 53 instead of the PS. Kingsley is a decent player. But he's like Cam Lewis for us or Brandin Bryant when he was here. A decent hand that we call upon first if there's an injury. But there's 5 DE's on the roster who are valued more right now, 6 when Von returns and we only keep 5 max there. It's a numbers game with him too. Save for a surprise trade of Basham, there's no spot for him. Thanks for sharing a good post! Quote
Matt_In_NH Posted August 31, 2023 Author Posted August 31, 2023 Based on the first 53, I missed on threeAnderson for Quessenbury Spector for Kline and Jonathan for Basham. None are a surprise. I am glad they went for Anderson over Quessenbury as Quessenbury is at his ceiling and it is a low ceiling. Nice to see Beane "admit" he missed on Basham...move on and let the better guy on the roster. I expected Kline back but with Kirksey signing, that will probably not happen anytime soon. Like many, I did not think the MLB for the end of the season was on the TC roster. Hopefully Kirksey can hold it down for a year. Curious what happens when Miller is activated f the 5 DE's are all healthy. QB 2 Allen, Allen RB 4 Cook, Harris, Murray, Gilliam TE 3 Knox, Kincaid, Sternberger Morris WR 6 Diggs, Davis, Harty, Shakir, Sherfield, Shorter OT 4 Dawkins, Brown, Quessenbury, Van DeMark, Anderson OG 3 Torrence, McGovern, Edwards, C 2 Morse, Bates DT 5 Jones, Ford, Oliver, Phillips, Settle DE 5. Epenesa, Floyd, Lawson, Rousseau, Basham Jonathan LB 6 Bernard, Milano, D Williams, , Dodson, Matekavich, Klein, Spector CB 7 Elam, Jackson, T Johnson, Neal, White, Benford, Lewis S 4 Poyer, Hyde, Rapp, Hamlin K 1 Bass H 1 Ferguson P 1 Martin PUP Miller 1 1 Quote
SoCal Deek Posted August 31, 2023 Posted August 31, 2023 22 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said: Based on the first 53, I missed on threeAnderson for Quessenbury Spector for Kline and Jonathan for Basham. None are a surprise. I am glad they went for Anderson over Quessenbury as Quessenbury is at his ceiling and it is a low ceiling. Nice to see Beane "admit" he missed on Basham...move on and let the better guy on the roster. I expected Kline back but with Kirksey signing, that will probably not happen anytime soon. Like many, I did not think the MLB for the end of the season was on the TC roster. Hopefully Kirksey can hold it down for a year. Curious what happens when Miller is activated f the 5 DE's are all healthy. QB 2 Allen, Allen RB 4 Cook, Harris, Murray, Gilliam TE 3 Knox, Kincaid, Sternberger Morris WR 6 Diggs, Davis, Harty, Shakir, Sherfield, Shorter OT 4 Dawkins, Brown, Quessenbury, Van DeMark, Anderson OG 3 Torrence, McGovern, Edwards, C 2 Morse, Bates DT 5 Jones, Ford, Oliver, Phillips, Settle DE 5. Epenesa, Floyd, Lawson, Rousseau, Basham Jonathan LB 6 Bernard, Milano, D Williams, , Dodson, Matekavich, Klein, Spector CB 7 Elam, Jackson, T Johnson, Neal, White, Benford, Lewis S 4 Poyer, Hyde, Rapp, Hamlin K 1 Bass H 1 Ferguson P 1 Martin PUP Miller Well done. So as I say every year around this time….geez that was a whole lot of practice, training, and chatter just to swap out two or three players in backup roles. But at least 40 guys will get to tell their grandkids that they got to suit up for an NFL team for a couple of months. 😉 Quote
Matt_In_NH Posted August 31, 2023 Author Posted August 31, 2023 1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said: Well done. So as I say every year around this time….geez that was a whole lot of practice, training, and chatter just to swap out two or three players in backup roles. But at least 40 guys will get to tell their grandkids that they got to suit up for an NFL team for a couple of months. 😉 I get what you are saying and I agree it was pretty obvious to get the first 50 guys. But Actually 56 guys are on their roster now with Von as PUP and two guys on in season IR. Plus 16 practice squad that makes 72 out of 90 guys in camp. 1 Quote
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