Training Camp (scrimmage) - 8/4 5:00pm - The return of Blue and Red

[boyst]

4 hours ago, The Wiz said:

 

 

Beane and McD said as much about him not getting it sometimes during practice but cleans it up during games. 

 

He was always a man corner and now they want him to play zone so I'm not surprised he's either, not getting it or just going with with and using his natural ability to make up for his mistakes.  Either way, the coaching staff is noticing it and don't like it.

 

 

@CountryCletus  I spy a Cleti. Two of them in that shot. Feel bad Allen didn't high five him

[Buffalo_Stampede]

13 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

I agree.  Doesn't change the fact that it has been a core problem since the start of the McBeane era and have probably had more turnover than most teams on the oline.

More turnover? Do you follow the league? Bills are above average in terms of OL turnover. It’s a league problem. Mahomes has had multiple LTs and Cs in his short career. Allen has had the same LT and C his whole career.

Edited August 5, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[freddyjj]

8 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Allen has had the same LT and C his whole career.

LT yes in Dawkins.  Morse signed here in 2019 which was Josh's 2nd year here. 

[boyst]

Id like to get a visual on Rapp at the LOS. Can be rush the QB, jam a down field target, or backpedal and keep up with a runner?

 

Or is he an underneath zone man?

[Buffalo_Stampede]

3 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

LT yes in Dawkins.  Morse signed here in 2019 which was Josh's 2nd year here. 

Oh so LT and C going on 5 straight years instead of 6. My bad.

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, boyst said:

Id like to get a visual on Rapp at the LOS. Can be rush the QB, jam a down field target, or backpedal and keep up with a runner?

 

Or is he an underneath zone man?

He can blitz off the edge a bit ... He can press a TE or bigger WR at the line but he needs help over top cus he can't run with a WR

 

And he absolutely hasn't shown the ability to back peddle and cover deep ground 

 

He will be solid in the box in underneath zones 

[boyst]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

He can blitz off the edge a bit ... He can press a TE or bigger WR at the line but he needs help over top cus he can't run with a WR

 

And he absolutely hasn't shown the ability to back peddle and cover deep ground 

 

He will be solid in the box in underneath zones 

This is what he has projected, shown, and realistic. In our conference and our schedule I am curious how useful this is going to be outside of NE. He maybe okay against NJ, they're big and physical. Miami he isn't fast enough to be on pass pro.

 

Just want to see it. He can be that hybrid LB. I hope. 

 

Dime package with him

 

Or Hyde, Poyer at safety.

Johnson at nickel

Benford as a zone cover, Elam as a man press

Regular CBS (tre and Jackson)

3 man DL

...

Rapp as olb LB and Milano as Mlb

Edited August 5, 2023 by boyst

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, boyst said:

This is what he has projected, shown, and realistic. In our conference and our schedule I am curious how useful this is going to be outside of NE. He maybe okay against NJ, they're big and physical. Miami he isn't fast enough to be on pass pro.

 

Just want to see it. He can be that hybrid LB. I hope. 

He MITE be the big nickel McDermott has wanted ... Only problem is ... Is taking Johnson off the field for rapp... Johnson is really good

 

But will McDermott go Bill Belichick ... Re write and work his defense... Run something he never has ... Maybe big DIME..  the answer

 

2 safeties deep... Milano and Rapp , inside backers ... 4 lineman ... 3 corners ... Boom 

 

This is 3rd and long modern defense... But does he have the guts 

[boyst]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

He MITE be the big nickel McDermott has wanted ... Only problem is ... Is taking Johnson off the field for rapp... Johnson is really good

 

But will McDermott go Bill Belichick ... Re write and work his defense... Run something he never has ... Maybe big DIME..  the answer

 

2 safeties deep... Milano and Rapp , inside backers ... 4 lineman ... 3 corners ... Boom 

 

This is 3rd and long modern defense... But does he have the guts 

See my edit. I'm very curious if he has the balls.

 

If he does it properly and can develop a run stuff presence and integrity to stop a rush by a QB then it can be great. But we face a lot of mobile QBs. Prescott, Burrow, hurts, Tua, even Jones...

 

Against Rodgers and Herbert will be another thing. 

[GoBills808]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

He MITE be the big nickel McDermott has wanted ... Only problem is ... Is taking Johnson off the field for rapp... Johnson is really good

 

But will McDermott go Bill Belichick ... Re write and work his defense... Run something he never has ... Maybe big DIME..  the answer

 

2 safeties deep... Milano and Rapp , inside backers ... 4 lineman ... 3 corners ... Boom 

 

This is 3rd and long modern defense... But does he have the guts 

Also does he have the DTs when teams go heavy vs that look

 

Milano+Rapp/Johnson is a light box

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, boyst said:

See my edit. I'm very curious if he has the balls.

 

If he does it properly and can develop a run stuff presence and integrity to stop a rush by a QB then it can be great. But we face a lot of mobile QBs. Prescott, Burrow, hurts, Tua, even Jones...

 

Against Rodgers and Herbert will be another thing. 

Mobile QBs can potentially have Milano playing a Spy coverage ... Still taking up mid space while mirroring the QB

 

He also can send a corner off the edge ..  again will we see it? I'm not sure 

 

All I know is that I've coached 43 and 34 bases ..  I've ran a 3-3-5 base. .. but does sean have the guts to go outside his comfort zone ?

 

I think you can run the big dime with a 4 man front ... 1 LBr... 3 safeties ... And 3 corners and we have personnel for that 

 

Good talk

[stevewin]

2 hours ago, jkeerie said:

I said in my practice summary yesterday, I didn't see Morris miss a ball in the three practices this week (now four)

[Buffalo716]

8 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Also does he have the DTs when teams go heavy vs that look

 

Milano+Rapp/Johnson is a light box

For sure ... That's why adaptation is key... I have been obsessed over personnel grouping for 2 decades

 

You can fight heavy with heavy even playing pass.... You mite lose a little rush tho

 

1 Technique (Jones) 3 Technique (Settle)

5 Technique ( Oliver ) 7 , Technique ( Miller/Floyd

 

That's a heavy front 4

[eball]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

For sure ... That's why adaptation is key... I have been obsessed over personnel grouping for 2 decades

 

You can fight heavy with heavy even playing pass.... You mite lose a little rush tho

 

1 Technique (Jones) 3 Technique (Settle)

5 Technique ( Oliver ) 7 , Technique ( Miller/Floyd

 

That's a heavy front 4

 

I enjoy reading discussions like this.  I’m not a coach and never claimed to be an X’s and O’s guy.  It’s interesting.  Thanks.

 

[Buffalo716]

6 minutes ago, eball said:

 

I enjoy reading discussions like this.  I’m not a coach and never claimed to be an X’s and O’s guy.  It’s interesting.  Thanks.

 

McDermott is innovative in a non creative way if that makes sense ....

 

We have been heavy nickel personnel for 2 years ... We basically play a 34 ILB grouping with our 2 inside nickel backers

 

They play the MIKE AND WILL... like Patrick Willis and Navarro Bowman 

 

Except McDermott has ALREADY flipped the WILL to the strongside..  now Milano is lined up OVER the TE in nickel 

 

A small nuance ... But it's huge in terms of defensive groupings and offensive match ups 

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

5 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Come on man... I know it's just a scrimmage but I'm so sick of the same old problem from the same players.

 

Kincaid gets a pass for rookie jitters. The others need to stop letting their QB down.

 

 

The pass to Davis was high but a comfortable reach and he was wide open.........it was in a good spot for him to catch it.

 

His and Knox drops were both on what were 3rd downs.   Killer incompletions on impressive throws.  Knox stumbled awkwardly out of his break and the ball ended up clownishly bouncing off of his upper body and face mask.

 

The offense really struggled to move the ball.    They would start next series from where they had left off in the previous series and they couldn't even get to midfield after like 6 series.   Defense just dominated them.

 

Until the ball was placed at the goal line.

 

And then the offense scored at will with Allen hitting Sherfield, Diggs and Shakir for TD's and I think it was Barkley who hit Sherfield for a second TD.   Even a botched center exchange to Kyle Allen bounced fortuitously into Latavius Murray's hands and he walked in for a TD.   

 

As for the some old concerns.........calling what Shakir did with the punt a "muff" is being very kind.   It was more like

 

 

No other punts came close to touching the ground.    Sharty has a scary track record of fumbling on returns but he seemed to have the softest hands on the punt catch, IMO.

[GoBills808]

36 minutes ago, jkeerie said:

I stand corrected.

😂😂i'm just joking around, pretty sure either is fine there👍

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The pass to Davis was high but a comfortable reach and he was wide open.........it was in a good spot for him to catch it.

 

His and Knox drops were both on what were 3rd downs.   Killer incompletions on impressive throws.  Knox stumbled awkwardly out of his break and the ball ended up clownishly bouncing off of his upper body and face mask.

 

The offense really struggled to move the ball.    They would start next series from where they had left off in the previous series and they couldn't even get to midfield after like 6 series.   Defense just dominated them.

 

Until the ball was placed at the goal line.

 

And then the offense scored at will with Allen hitting Sherfield, Diggs and Shakir for TD's and I think it was Barkley who hit Sherfield for a second TD.   Even a botched center exchange to Kyle Allen bounced fortuitously into Latavius Murray's hands and he walked in for a TD.   

 

As for the some old concerns.........calling what Shakir did with the punt a "muff" is being very kind.   It was more like

 

 

No other punts came close to touching the ground.    Sharty has a scary track record of fumbling on returns but he seemed to have the softest hands on the punt catch, IMO.

Knox has always been a very sloppy route runner to my eye, timing off the snap always seems slow, no smoothness or nuance in getting to his spot, general poor understanding of leverage

[Dan in Owego]

7 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The pass to Davis was high but a comfortable reach and he was wide open.........it was in a good spot for him to catch it.

 

His and Knox drops were both on what were 3rd downs.   Killer incompletions on impressive throws.  Knox stumbled awkwardly out of his break and the ball ended up clownishly bouncing off of his upper body and face mask.

 

The offense really struggled to move the ball.    They would start next series from where they had left off in the previous series and they couldn't even get to midfield after like 6 series.   Defense just dominated them.

 

Until the ball was placed at the goal line.

 

And then the offense scored at will with Allen hitting Sherfield, Diggs and Shakir for TD's and I think it was Barkley who hit Sherfield for a second TD.   Even a botched center exchange to Kyle Allen bounced fortuitously into Latavius Murray's hands and he walked in for a TD.   

 

As for the some old concerns.........calling what Shakir did with the punt a "muff" is being very kind.   It was more like

 

 

No other punts came close to touching the ground.    Sharty has a scary track record of fumbling on returns but he seemed to have the softest hands on the punt catch, IMO.

who stood out on Defense to you if any?

[BADOLBILZ]

7 minutes ago, Dan in Owego said:

who stood out on Defense to you if any?

 

 

Everybody.   The offense couldn't do squat with the first 99 yards of the field.  Pressure was immediate and plays were mostly blown up quickly.    I am very impressed with the pass rush........but then I expected to be.    This D-line is basically all veterans now.   No more breaking in any young DE's within the top 8 DL.

Edited August 5, 2023 by BADOLBILZ

[BADOLBILZ]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

How’d Kincaid look?

 

 

Invisible except for the ball that fell to the turf.    The TE's also didn't run routes with the receivers during position drills so we didn't really get much of a look at them.   

 

I think it was mentioned but the 1st team offense wasn't out there a ton............presumably less than on most days of camp.

 

In case the general tenor of tweets is such that it makes people think it's just a lot of give and take between the two sides of the ball..........the offense has zero chance to do anything against this defense when Josh isn't out there.    Barkley and Kyle Allen were very overwhelmed by the pressure and the strong underneath coverage.