Outside of MLB, Where are the Bills Worse in 2023?

[BADOLBILZ]

25 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

First off, if Hartys 50 receiving yards is accurate that's an easy bet.  I'm not able to find that, but my point isn't necessarily about just stats (more on that below).  I could careless what McKenzie/Crowder are projected for on their new teams....they'll be getting different playing time/targets/etc.  It's about finding someone who can be more consistent/win 1-1 matchups/that isn't a total spaz, like Mck.

 

Second, Kincaid needs to be considered for obvious reasons (in my "new group" comment). 

 

Finally, the larger point isn't just about stats.  Yes, the stats will tell us alot about our Total offensive production/who contributed come year-end.  However, the main point is "consistency", and can these guys win their 1-1 matchups when Diggs is doubled. 

 

Again, there's alot of reasons to say "odds" are they will be better this year (consistency)...especially at slot, like I am pointing out.  McKenzie blew A LOT of opportunities and probably the most inconsistent player who received regular playing time.   Shakir, Kincaid, Harty, Sherfield...all guys I trust to be better/more reliable than McKenzie.

 

Did Gabe play consistent all year, of course not.  But if his ankle really did hold him back, then it's fair to say that as long as he doesn't injure it Week 2 again, then we might get better regular season production.

 

It's clear to me that we have improved at slot, the bar was super low vs LY tho.  Question is will it be enough.

 

I'm sure we can revisit this topic throughout the season 😁

 

 

Now remember.......you are the one who introduced the idea of "odds making" because you thought it added gravity to your very vague, unobjective opinion.

 

The whole basis for all this arguing with me is about "odds are".

 

And that's not what the odds actually suggest.

 

We ALL expect these additions to be productive in our hearts......as fans.     

 

But the reality with veteran players is that they are usually closer to what have proven they are.

 

Beane NEEDS some pro personnel adds to pan out, though.   He batted .000 in that regard in 2021 and 2022.

 

[dave mcbride]

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Now remember.......you are the one who introduced the idea of "odds making" because you thought it added gravity to your very vague, unobjective opinion.

 

The whole basis for all this arguing with me is about "odds are".

 

And that's not what the odds actually suggest.

 

We ALL expect these additions to be productive in our hearts......as fans.     

 

But the reality with veteran players is that they are usually closer to what have proven they are.

 

Beane NEEDS some pro personnel adds to pan out, though.   He batted .000 in that regard in 2021 and 2022.

 

DaQuon Jones was a helluva player last year. He had the best season of his career judging from PFF, PFR's AV, and the ol' eyeball test. 

[MasterStrategist]

6 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Now remember.......you are the one who introduced the idea of "odds making" because you thought it added gravity to your very vague, unobjective opinion.

 

The whole basis for all this arguing with me is about "odds are".

 

And that's not what the odds actually suggest.

 

We ALL expect these additions to be productive in our hearts......as fans.     

 

But the reality with veteran players is that they are usually closer to what have proven they are.

 

Beane NEEDS some pro personnel adds to pan out, though.   He batted .000 in that regard in 2021 and 2022.

 

When I say odds, I meant chances/likelihood...nowhere did I say those are betting prop bets.

 

But I agree with what you just said...it's my objective opinion that it's an improved group.  Not measurable right now, and still will be partially judgment come season, but I think we will see a clear improvement over McK in the slot.

 

Youre Introducing a different topic about Beanes pro adds in 2021 and 2022.  I disagree with that too, but not going to get into it.  I think he's missed the most with resources poured into DL, FA and draft, since his arrival....thats held us back in past 2 playoffs, along with other reasons.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

DaQuon Jones was a helluva player last year. He had the best season of his career judging from PFF, PFR's AV, and the ol' eyeball test. 

 

Yea Jones was a good pickup and Von, obviously. But Settle? Meh. Saffold? Mess. Howard? Didn't make it out of camp. 

 

2021 Sanders did okay. But that was about it. 

[dave mcbride]

16 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea Jones was a good pickup and Von, obviously. But Settle? Meh. Saffold? Mess. Howard? Didn't make it out of camp. 

 

2021 Sanders did okay. But that was about it. 

No doubt. I'm just responding to this line: "He batted .000 in that regard in 2021 and 2022."

[ColoradoBills]

I guess I could make an argument that the 2023 Buffalo Bills pass catchers (WRs, TEs and RBs) are superior to the same from 2022.

With Dorsey having a year under his belt I have optimism for a good year in the passing game.

 

Same might be said for the running game.  A healthy Josh Allen season could make for a fun year.  It's up to the OL to tie it all together.

[BADOLBILZ]

8 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

DaQuon Jones was a helluva player last year. He had the best season of his career judging from PFF, PFR's AV, and the ol' eyeball test. 

 

 

Yes I meant to say .000 on "offensive" additions.    

 

I thought Von Miller was great last year.  

 

Jones was good.......as he always is.......his PFF rating of 72 falls squarely in between his 65 and 77 highs and lows over the previous 4 seasons.  

 

Which is sorta' the point with expectations.........its not rational to expect guys who were only good once in 4 or 5 seasons to be that good(or better).   

 

The last UFA addition that they got as much or more than was expected from on offense was Daryl Williams in 2020.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

8 hours ago, MasterStrategist said:

When I say odds, I meant chances/likelihood...nowhere did I say those are betting prop bets.

 

But I agree with what you just said...it's my objective opinion that it's an improved group.  Not measurable right now, and still will be partially judgment come season, but I think we will see a clear improvement over McK in the slot.

 

Youre Introducing a different topic about Beanes pro adds in 2021 and 2022.  I disagree with that too, but not going to get into it.  I think he's missed the most with resources poured into DL, FA and draft, since his arrival....thats held us back in past 2 playoffs, along with other reasons.

 

 

Your opinion is NOT in the least bit objective.    

 

You are literally discounting the data that professionals use to project the likelihood of something happening.

 

My point is simple.........the informed, objective viewpoint is that they likely haven't improved by swapping those 4 players around.

 

Do I think they have gotten better?   I have no choice but to believe so because I couldn't stand Lil' Dummy and Crowder was a bust.

 

But Sharty and Sherfield have been the Lil' Dummy(low production) and Crowder(injured) on their respective teams before...........they are just new to us so we can have optimism about them.   

 

Understanding the difference between that largely blind hope and the actual  likelihood is what being objective is about.

 

[MasterStrategist]

25 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Your opinion is NOT in the least bit objective.    

 

You are literally discounting the data that professionals use to project the likelihood of something happening.

 

My point is simple.........the informed, objective viewpoint is that they likely haven't improved by swapping those 4 players around.

 

Do I think they have gotten better?   I have no choice but to believe so because I couldn't stand Lil' Dummy and Crowder was a bust.

 

But Sharty and Sherfield have been the Lil' Dummy(low production) and Crowder(injured) on their respective teams before...........they are just new to us so we can have optimism about them.   

 

Understanding the difference between that largely blind hope and the actual  likelihood is what being objective is about.

 

Prop bets dont mean jack.  We've resorted to using whatever stat/metric, to justify your opinion.

 

Get over yourself, same guy saying JuJu is a #1.....hello, take your own advice...the NFL GMs have spoken, the man got less than $9m AAV....sound like #1 money?

 

Again, you have your opinion.  And I have mine.  Let's see how season plays out.

 

But I bet if we poll Bills fans, many will say we are better off at the slot position coming into this season.  That's been my main point and you keeping diverting, look here-look there-this stat-now prop bets.  

 

Be fun to revisit when season gets rolling.  I "bet" you'll find a way to prove your point though, regardless of what occurs...because you are type of individual that can't be wrong...am I right?🤣🤪

 

Edited August 4, 2023 by MasterStrategist

[Dr.Sack]

Unless players significantly fall off due to age I see zero positions of decline outside the huge ? At MLB. 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, MasterStrategist said:

Prop bets dont mean jack.  We've resorted to using whatever stat/metric, to justify your opinion.

 

Get over yourself, same guy saying JuJu is a #1.....hello, take your own advice...the NFL GMs have spoken, the man got less than $9m AAV....sound like #1 money?

 

Again, you have your opinion.  And I have mine.  Let's see how season plays out.

 

But I bet if we poll Bills fans, many will say we are better off at the slot position coming into this season.  That's been my main point and you keeping diverting, look here-look there-this stat-now prop bets.  

 

Be fun to revisit when season gets rolling.  I "bet" you'll find a way to prove your point though, regardless of what occurs...because you are type of individual that can't be wrong...am I right?🤣🤪

 

 

 

Your takes in this thread rival the most idiotic/illogical that I've seen. 

 

 

[WyoAZBillfan]

13 hours ago, ngbills said:

Do people understand Edmunds role in this defense? A lot of critics that he did not blow up the line, make tackles behind the line, etc. That was not his job. He was not used like some middle LB that don’t have two gap responsibility or have such a big role in the passing game. That is why he rarely blitzed or was rarely chasing guys behind the line of scrimmage. 

Until last season, Edmonds looked like he was at a carnival. Regularly taking a RB, TE and even a few WR rides for 6+ yard rides. A few games of splash in the pan efforts. I say all this being a TE supporter hoping he would finally live up to the wingspan and measurables. He rarely did (in my opinion). Will we miss him? Maybe, I dunno I’m willing to see what happens with the D as a whole. 
Curious to see how fast Chicago take him up as the whipping boy he was on this forum. I don’t think he’s an upgrade over either player they had in the position last season. 
Time will tell if Buffalo is better off, I agree the money was used better than signing him again to a big contract though. 

[Doc Brown]

14 hours ago, ngbills said:

Do people understand Edmunds role in this defense? A lot of critics that he did not blow up the line, make tackles behind the line, etc. That was not his job. He was not used like some middle LB that don’t have two gap responsibility or have such a big role in the passing game. That is why he rarely blitzed or was rarely chasing guys behind the line of scrimmage. 

Agreed but the Bills brass didn't think his value was enough to match the Bears offer or extend him in the 2020 or 2021 off-season.  It's not like we lost a Luke Kuechly quality MLB in McD's defense.  

[Coach Tuesday]

After yesterday: OT needs to be in the conversation.  Brown seems to be laboring again with a back issue and if that’s indeed the case, we can’t be surprised if they shut him down at least to begin the season.  And Dawkins does not appear to be off to a great start in camp this year, and he has the body type and lackadaisical attitude towards fitness and preparation that render him susceptible to his play completely falling off a cliff one of these years.  This could be the year, we don’t know.  I’m telling you all, Dawkins is the type who all of a sudden one day will completely lose his skills as opposed to a gradual decline, and it’s going to shock some people when it happens.  He is not the type of LT who is going to be able to play at a high level late into his 30s, like Wentworth, unless he radically changes his approach.

[GunnerBill]

52 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

After yesterday: OT needs to be in the conversation.  Brown seems to be laboring again with a back issue and if that’s indeed the case, we can’t be surprised if they shut him down at least to begin the season.  And Dawkins does not appear to be off to a great start in camp this year, and he has the body type and lackadaisical attitude towards fitness and preparation that render him susceptible to his play completely falling off a cliff one of these years.  This could be the year, we don’t know.  I’m telling you all, Dawkins is the type who all of a sudden one day will completely lose his skills as opposed to a gradual decline, and it’s going to shock some people when it happens.  He is not the type of LT who is going to be able to play at a high level late into his 30s, like Wentworth, unless he radically changes his approach.

 

Agree. Especially on Dion. It is why I have for two offseasons being saying LT is a sneaky need. Let Dion move inside where his body issues are less likely to affect his play and try mitigate that decline and slow the curve a bit. 

 

Edit: you mean Whitworth though. Wentworth is a golf course in south west London

Edited August 4, 2023 by GunnerBill

[BarleyNY]

7 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

Unless players significantly fall off due to age I see zero positions of decline outside the huge ? At MLB. 

 

The other question I see is at DE. So much hinges on Von Miller returning to form (at some point this season). Leonard Floyd is a nice pick up to hold the fort down until Miller is ready - and he’ll be a good player to have in the rotation after. But until Miller is back to his old self we have a clear and obvious downgrade at DE.

[SoMAn]

On 8/1/2023 at 11:47 AM, ngbills said:

 

That is a very naïve mindset. It is one thing to say you would not may him $20M per, but to pretend that he is no different than a guy like Dodson, Spector, etc makes no sense. Edmunds is being paid like a top LB in the league because he is one. If he was not getting paid like he is there is no doubt he would be the starting MLB for the Bills. 

Overhyped players are frequently overpaid. In a couple of years when the Bears figure out what they're getting for their money, Edmunds will be looking for another team. 

I've re-watched games from the past 3 seasons, specifically focusing in on Edmunds.

More often than not he was a liability in my opinion. He had a couple of decent games, but most of the time he can be seen chasing the play, getting blocked out of the way, not creating fumbles, not getting interceptions, 'assisting' on tackles when an opposing ball carrier is already halfway to the ground from another defender, or just being in close proximity to that ball carrier after the tackle.  

His condor-like wing span was supposed to be integral in clogging up passing lanes. That doesn't work unless your in a position to do that. Edmunds' poor instincts prevented him from being in position. My guess is he followed the defensive playbook to the letter, making him predictable. 

It was weird watching him trail a ball carrier when it appeared another Bill would be there to make the tackle, and it looked like Edmunds was running at half speed, assuming the teammate would make the tackle. Seriously, he sometimes looked like he was out for a morning jog. 

I have nothing against him personally, and by all accounts was well-liked by his teammates. I just don't believe he was all he was made out to be by the press and some fans.

The organization is very loyal to their players and would never disparage any of them publicly, but I believe if they had really wanted to keep him, they could have found a way.

Prediction: in a couple of years he'll come knocking on the door at One Bills Drive as a FA, just like the numerous other players that came back home after a stint with another team.

[MasterStrategist]

8 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Your takes in this thread rival the most idiotic/illogical that I've seen. 

 

 

Old man who likes to "railroad" conversations, doesn't respond or read what others post, just spews whatever fits their agenda....Got It!

[Kaenon]

As the self-proclaimed resident Aggie fan on this board - Dodson will be great as our starting MLB this season.

 

I got to watch him in person at Kyle Field a few times and liked what I saw. Gave former top QB picks like Rosen and Hurts fits. 

Couldn't tell you why he went undrafted besides that the Aggies didn't live up to the billing those few years, and the spotlight was all around Myles Garrett for his freshman season. Maybe if Dodson stayed for his senior year he'd have been a 3rd or 4th round pick.

But look at guys like Milano - we can hit on some marquee guys later on and even undrafteds.

 

I've got 100% faith in Dodson at MLB alongside Milano as his partner in crime.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Kaenon said:

As the self-proclaimed resident Aggie fan on this board - Dodson will be great as our starting MLB this season.

 

I got to watch him in person at Kyle Field a few times and liked what I saw. Gave former top QB picks like Rosen and Hurts fits. 

Couldn't tell you why he went undrafted besides that the Aggies didn't live up to the billing those few years, and the spotlight was all around Myles Garrett for his freshman season. Maybe if Dodson stayed for his senior year he'd have been a 3rd or 4th round pick.

But look at guys like Milano - we can hit on some marquee guys later on and even undrafteds.

 

I've got 100% faith in Dodson at MLB alongside Milano as his partner in crime.

 

I had a draftable grade on him. Thought his tape was strong. Also said on here pre-draft that I thought he was a good Bills fit. It's been a real mixed bag when he has been out there on the field so far. I think he is probably a backup really. But I hope he proves me wrong.