Training Camp 8/1 9:45

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

9 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

 

 

Woof...

 

 

 

 

Man that last tweet is the perfect microcosm for this Bills offense. Josh Allen, Stefon Diggs and a bunch of crap.

[Beck Water]

1 minute ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Astro does a good job. But there's been so much confusion during the live tweets that sometimes reading his report later on makes me think he (or someone else) is watching an entirely different practice...lol.

 

I know some of it has to do with where you are and what you're seeing at the time from that vantage point because often there's a lot going on at once.

 

To me it usually falls into place, like "OK, Torrence was in with the 1s pre-stretching then it was Bates with the 1s in the first 11-on-11 team session then.....

 

But it can seem like different practice, for example, Ajay Cybulski sees Khalil Shakir as dropping a pass he should have caught.

A different perspective:

 

1 minute ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said:

Man that last tweet is the perfect microcosm for this Bills offense. Josh Allen, Stefon Diggs and a bunch of crap.

 

Or, maybe it was a very good play by Cam Lewis, who has played 234 defensive snaps in the NFL; he can make a play.

Davis has by all accounts had a good couple of days, and Kincaid so far is having a good camp as is Cook.

[HappyDays]

11 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Good.  Show Kinkaid that this is the NFL, it's not going to be easy

 

 

 

 

 

I'm about done with Shakir at this point. You can't have below average physical gifts and below average hands and still be successful in this league. Allen has had too many incredible plays dropped by his pass catchers since he was a rookie. I'm so over it.

[Shaw66]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

I'm about done with Shakir at this point. You can't have below average physical gifts and below average hands and still be successful in this league. Allen has had too many incredible plays dropped by his pass catchers since he was a rookie. I'm so over it.

Sounds like Cam Lewis broke it up.  I'm not done with Shakir.  

[MWK]

Almost like we should have brought in some real competition for him.

 

 

 

[Beck Water]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I'm about done with Shakir at this point. You can't have below average physical gifts and below average hands and still be successful in this league. Allen has had too many incredible plays dropped by his pass catchers since he was a rookie. I'm so over it.

 

I'm not done with him.  But I no longer view him as a roster lock.  He's got to figure out how to hang on to some of those contested balls, because he doesn't have the arm length or speed to hold defenders off and separate cleanly.

[Ya Digg?]

6 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

 

Or, maybe it was a very good play by Cam Lewis, who has played 234 defensive snaps in the NFL; he can make a play.

Davis has by all accounts had a good couple of days, and Kincaid so far is having a good camp as is Cook.

Every time I see anything about Cam Lewis I cringe-his play last year gives me major PTSD

[gobills404]

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I'm about done with Shakir at this point. You can't have below average physical gifts and below average hands and still be successful in this league. Allen has had too many incredible plays dropped by his pass catchers since he was a rookie. I'm so over it.

Honestly Beane might as well cut him at this point. It’s a well known fact that players never improve after their first season.

[GoBills808]

Offense being dominated by this defense should not be happening

[SCBills]

9 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

To me it usually falls into place, like "OK, Torrence was in with the 1s pre-stretching then it was Bates with the 1s in the first 11-on-11 team session then.....

 

But it can seem like different practice, for example, Ajay Cybulski sees Khalil Shakir as dropping a pass he should have caught.

A different perspective:

 

 

Or, maybe it was a very good play by Cam Lewis, who has played 234 defensive snaps in the NFL; he can make a play.

Davis has by all accounts had a good couple of days, and Kincaid so far is having a good camp as is Cook.

 

Shakir seems to be the most polarizing player of camp so far.

 

Some reporters think he's been solid/stock up.  Others keep highlighting him having an issue with drops.  

[Jerry Jabber]

8 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I'm about done with Shakir at this point. You can't have below average physical gifts and below average hands and still be successful in this league. Allen has had too many incredible plays dropped by his pass catchers since he was a rookie. I'm so over it.

I never had high hopes for Shakir, mainly with him being drafted in the 5th round. At those lower levels of the draft, it’s an even higher gamble that these players will work out. 

Edited August 1, 2023 by Jerry Jabber

[Beck Water]

Just now, MWK said:

Almost like we should have brought in some real competition for him.

 

 

 

 

That (tying together threads) is the real achilles heel of Beane's OL builds.  It's not that he doesn't put resources into the line.  He has - maybe not as many high picks as folks would like, but OL is hard to scout these days so there's an argument to be made for picking up guys who have put down some NFL tape.

 

But there are two errors with a draft pick.  One is giving up too early (analogous to Type I error in statistics. rejection of actually true null hypothesis)  The other is giving them too many chances and too much time (analogous to Type II error, accepting an actually false null hypothesis). 

 

When it comes to Cody Ford and now maybe Spencer Brown, Beane has been a Type II guy.

 

 

[Don Otreply]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

Offense being dominated by this defense should not be happening

Oh please already, yesterday the offense dominated the defense, where were you then? this back and forth is standard for TC, happens every preseason, 

[Beck Water]

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Offense being dominated by this defense should not be happening

 

Huh?

[Airseven]

I still think Shakir figures it out and avoids becoming another “Beane special.”

 

5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Offense being dominated by this defense should not be happening

It happens at the start of nearly every camp.

Edited August 1, 2023 by Airseven

[SCBills]

2 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I'm not done with him.  But I no longer view him as a roster lock.  He's got to figure out how to hang on to some of those contested balls, because he doesn't have the arm length or speed to hold defenders off and separate cleanly.

 

Same.  I've heard only good things about Diggs-Davis-Harty-Sherfield.  Shakir has been a mixed bag, and if I'm the Bills, I don't want to risk subjecting Shorter to waivers - plus he provides ST's ability while we develop him.  

 

That gives me 4 locks, and 1 guy who probably wouldn't clear waivers, provides ST ability and gives us a developmental hedge/true outside WR if Gabe leaves after this season. 

 

I wouldn't be opposed to moving Shakir for a Day 3 pick if there's suitors... especially if someone like Isabella steps up as a return man and/or we want to keep an extra TE given the battle between Morris & Sternberger, along with our increased 12 personnel identity. 

[MasterStrategist]

2 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

Shakir seems to be the most polarizing player of camp so far.

 

Some reporters think he's been solid/stock up.  Others keep highlighting him having an issue with drops.  

Exactly why I don't put alot of stock into it yet.  There's a few reports, ie: ASTRO, others that I trust.  Then everyone else, I'm not sure they're even paying attention or know what to look for.

 

Personal experience (just 1 day at camp): Cook, Gabe and Shakir all looked improved/noticeably quicker. Cook has a presence that he felt more comfortable/confident in his role on offense

 

it's great to see the reports, just find it funny when some posters latch on to these and use it as justification for Player XYZ to be cut/traded, etc.

 

Wait to preseason starts, or if you're at camp, and use your own eyes to judge 

[gobills404]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

Offense being dominated by this defense should not be happening

You mean the one that’s allowed the fewest points AND yards in the NFL over the last 2 seasons? That defense shouldn’t have good days????

[2003Contenders]

6 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I'm about done with Shakir at this point. You can't have below average physical gifts and below average hands and still be successful in this league. Allen has had too many incredible plays dropped by his pass catchers since he was a rookie. I'm so over it.

I wouldn't go that far, but I am starting to feel like his roster spot may indeed be in jeopardy. With the thought of running so many 12 (or even 11 1/2) formations, there is certainly the chance that the Bills will keep one fewer receiver on the final roster than they have the last couple of years. I would imagine that Diggs/Davis/Sherfield/Harty are all locks, and a couple of weeks ago I thought Shakir was the 5th man with everyone else battling for possibly a 6th and final spot. Now I am not so sure.

[Jerry Jabber]

15 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

That (tying together threads) is the real achilles heel of Beane's OL builds.  It's not that he doesn't put resources into the line.  He has - maybe not as many high picks as folks would like, but OL is hard to scout these days so there's an argument to be made for picking up guys who have put down some NFL tape.

 

But there are two errors with a draft pick.  One is giving up too early (analogous to Type I error in statistics. rejection of actually true null hypothesis)  The other is giving them too many chances and too much time (analogous to Type II error, accepting an actually false null hypothesis). 

 

When it comes to Cody Ford and now maybe Spencer Brown, Beane has been a Type II guy.

 

 

Brown reminds me of Torell Troup. Troup looked good early on with the Bills, but had a bad back injury which derailed his career. I’m hoping Brown will be able to fully recover and have a solid career as a RT for the Bills, but the reports so far in this year’s camp are worrisome.