Training Camp 7/30 9:45am

[PBF81]

7 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

No one has seemed to mention this throw was over Hyde!!!!  Not the MLB or some other dude but Micah freaking Hyde (one of the best deep ball defenders in the league). Motioning Cook wide in 12 personnel is gonna be deadly

 

I'm tellin' ya, if Dorsey's on this season, expect franchise bests from this offense.  

 

The play of the D will be rendered to secondary status if that happens.  A patently average defense will be more than enough under those circumstances.  

 

 

[AuntieEm]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

So how is he putting up those numbers but can't be a teams best wideout

 

 He likely feels Davis only has those numbers here because he's not the # 1 threat so he's left open more than if he was the #1.

[Warcodered]

2 minutes ago, JDubya76 said:

Is there an article from today? The most current article I see is from the 28th.

Doesn't look like it, previous days even when it wasn't finished there was some and it updated with the rest.

[GoBills808]

Just now, AuntieEm said:

 

 He likely feels Davis only has those numbers here because he's not the # 1 threat so he's left open more than if he was the #1.

i don't know what he's trying to say tbh

[Shaw66]

12 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

The only "originality" I see in those picks, beside the possible exception of Rousseau, who's also proven nothing yet, is in trying to get 1st/2nd-rounders in rounds later than the better ones normally would have been selected.  

 

What was so original about the Epenesa pick?  Specfically?   Brown?  Bernard?  

 

Kincaid, again, the crux of my point, was an unoriginal attempt to create in Buffalo what Reid has created in KC using Kelce.  Hardly original.  

 

Rousseau, possibly, given the versatility, but again, perhaps I should have defined "originality" a little bit better.  When I first said it, I was generally referring to a style of play, particularly offensively, but also defensively.  And on the flip side, I wasn't referring to constantly taking unconventional risks that don't pan out to the extent that he's done that, like with Rousseau.  

 

Signing Diggs, Poyer, Hyde, Morse, a bunch of revolving door WRs, a few TEs too, many OL-men, signing depth-caliber LBs to hopefully start, and even many DL-men, many of which were overpaid  or at least paid top-dollar for what they are, is hardly original.  

 

The whole 2 LB thing is original, but my point there is that it wasn't deliberate, it was forced upon them due to very specifically a lack of Beane being on top of things, per above, read it again if you don't know what I'm talking about.  

 

Otherwise, if his drafts and team/roster building are so original, then they've largely failed in so many ways.  

 

You may see it differently, great.  So be it.  I'm content with it. 

 

Go BILLS!!!  

 

 

None of the guyabi mentioned are typical for the position they play.  Ep and Groot aren't typical edges, Bernard isn't, Brown, isn't.  

 

And there is zero evidence that Beane was copying the Chiefs.  Zero.  Bills needed receiving AND Kincaid was the BPA.  That's all.  And he's an unconventional tight end.

[PBF81]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I think if Kincaid matches the hype in the regular season, I expect Davis to have a killer year but not volume of receptions.

 

Im thinking 50 receptions but agree on the other numbers.  He’s a good deep threat.  I would say he’s one of the best post route deep threat.
 

I don’t buy his ankle as the reason he dropped balls.  I could agree it slowed him up where he was a step and didn’t get to the ball as quickly.  But not when the ball hits both hands. 

 

We're largely in agreement on that.  The only way I see Davis catching 60-70 passes is if Allen puts up more completions and therefore yards than he has to date, which I do expect him to do.  If not it will likely be problematic.  Allen was 7th in passing yards and 9th in completions last season.  No reason for that.  So we'll see, but even then it doesn't mean that Davis gets that many of those extra balls although he would obviously be a beneficiary.  

 

But consider, if Davis merely adds 25% to his catches from last season, he's got 60 (up from 48), and at his career YPR rate of 16.8, those 60 would put him at over 1,000 and around 10 TDs.  (He's averaged a TD every 100 yards)  

 

WRs tend to improve into their 3rd/4th seasons, and given his injury last season, it's reasonable to expect him to make such a leap this season.  I'm also bigger on Davis than most.  ... which appears to be an unpopular opinion.  LOL  

 

And yeah, his feet weren't the reasons for his drops.  

 

Speaking of feet, part of my thinking is that Allen really does run less and throws more.  Who knows, maybe that doesn't happen, which would also be unfortunate.  

 

 

[whorlnut]

12 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

I'm tellin' ya, if Dorsey's on this season, expect franchise bests from this offense.  

 

The play of the D will be rendered to secondary status if that happens.  A patently average defense will be more than enough under those circumstances.  

 

 

The d has been secondary to this offense for several seasons now. We only go as far as Allen takes us. 

[PBF81]

5 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

None of the guyabi mentioned are typical for the position they play.  Ep and Groot aren't typical edges, Bernard isn't, Brown, isn't.  

 

And there is zero evidence that Beane was copying the Chiefs.  Zero.  Bills needed receiving AND Kincaid was the BPA.  That's all.  And he's an unconventional tight end.

 

Kelce is an unconventional TE.    

 

If Kincaid is what the team has said he'll be when they drafted him, he and Kelce will be the only two like them in the league.  

 

 

[GoBills808]

Gabe Davis is an inefficient wideout

 

he needs fewer targets, not more, to maximize his role in the offense

 

that should really be clear by now

[RobbRiddick]

This Kincaid stuff is making me crave week 1 even more than I already was. We don't even need him to be insanely good as a rookie, just provide a legit weapon that allows Josh to check down more and open things up for Diggs and Davis. Add to that the new pieces on the O-line that fingers crossed gives Allen more time + improves the run game and ... oh, oh, oh yeeeeeeeeeesssssss

 

 

[PBF81]

2 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

The d has been secondary to this offense for several seasons now. We only go as far as Allen takes us. 

 

Interesting point.  The D has helped us in the regular season, but folded in the postseason with only a couple of semi-irrelevant exceptions in what, 9 playoff games I think.  

 

During the regular season we held 7 teams to 17 or fewer points, 10 teams to 20 or fewer points, and all but three teams to fewer than 24 points.  

 

Yes, in the playoffs we only go as far as Allen takes us as our defense seems to disappear then being one of the worst in the playoffs.  

 

 

[RobbRiddick]

6 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

 

 

Speaking of feet, part of my thinking is that Allen really does run less and throws more.  Who knows, maybe that doesn't happen, which would also be unfortunate.  

 

 

 

I think less designed runs but he'll still scramble when he sees a lane. The key is whether he slides or goes OOB more instead of inviting contact. 

 

I also think he'll continue to use the threat of a run to mess the defense up. He's deadly when he rolls to his right and throws down the sideline, and when he does that you can see the defenders second guess themselves because they don't know if he's going to make a run for it or launch one deep

[Shaw66]

5 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Kelce is an unconventional TE.    

 

If Kincaid is what the team has said he'll be when they drafted him, he and Kelce will be the only two like them in the league.  

 

 

Kelce is a conventional sized tight end. Kincaid is a true tweener.  He could be a big wideout in a pinch.  He's close to Evans.  He's like Hernandez was.  Kelce is different.  

 

Regardless, there is nothing to suggest Beane was copying KC.  Nothing.  

[PBF81]

4 minutes ago, RobbRiddick said:

I think less designed runs but he'll still scramble when he sees a lane. The key is whether he slides or goes OOB more instead of inviting contact. 

 

I also think he'll continue to use the threat of a run to mess the defense up. He's deadly when he rolls to his right and throws down the sideline, and when he does that you can see the defenders second guess themselves because they don't know if he's going to make a run for it or launch one deep

 

Agreed, but think about it, the more he has to scramble isn't a good sign re: the OL for example.  Could also implicate the play-calling.  

 

Allen's got the arm, they need him to use it more.  

 

 

[Turbo44]

3 hours ago, Doc said:

 

The only OT picked around that area was Anton Harrison at 27 (the next OT went early 3rd).  I'm not sure he's even starting.

And one of Beane's misses has been on a high Oline pick.  Kinkaid was the perfect pick - I loved it when we made it.  It opens up space for all the other weapons on offense.  Btw, PHI prob lost the superbowl because of the strip sack mostly cause by the O-line missed assignment

[John from Riverside]

Just now, PBF81 said:

 

Agreed, but think about it, the more he has to scramble isn't a good sign re: the OL for example.  Could also implicate the play-calling.  

 

Allen's got the arm, they need him to use it more.  

 

 

He would use it more if he had more time in the pocket
 

We had way too many jailbreaks last year

[newcam2012]

5 hours ago, NewEra said:

Paging @newcam2012!!!

 

Insert bat signal gif here. 

 

Get him Newcam!!!   Let him have it- he thinks he can talk good about our OL and get away with it- let him know how bad the OL is destined to be

I'm not here saying this year's oline is bad. Last year's oline wasn't good and the previous year's oline wasn't either. In fact, when can you point to a Beane/ McD oline as being top 5? Elite? SB worthy? I'd argue with confidence the oline has been one major reason why the Bills have fallen short. As a result, I don't think it's a stretch to be cynical about this year's oline.  There are many unknows about this year's constructed line.

 

My contention is the glowing optimism on fans here. Many seemingly see the line as being stronger than the past.  It certainly can be but I'm in wait and see mode. People want to annoit Torrance as an immediate upgrade and fit to for McGovern and others. I do like that BB has finally tried to overtly upgrade the oline. It remains to be seen if the oline is good enough. It remains to be seen if the oline becomes a strength, weakness, or somewhere in between. 

 

Hope that clarifies my perspective. 

[Arkady Renko]

18 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

We're largely in agreement on that.  The only way I see Davis catching 60-70 passes is if Allen puts up more completions and therefore yards than he has to date, which I do expect him to do.  If not it will likely be problematic.  Allen was 7th in passing yards and 9th in completions last season.  No reason for that.  So we'll see, but even then it doesn't mean that Davis gets that many of those extra balls although he would obviously be a beneficiary.  

 

But consider, if Davis merely adds 25% to his catches from last season, he's got 60 (up from 48), and at his career YPR rate of 16.8, those 60 would put him at over 1,000 and around 10 TDs.  (He's averaged a TD every 100 yards)  

 

WRs tend to improve into their 3rd/4th seasons, and given his injury last season, it's reasonable to expect him to make such a leap this season.  I'm also bigger on Davis than most.  ... which appears to be an unpopular opinion.  LOL  

 

And yeah, his feet weren't the reasons for his drops.  

 

Speaking of feet, part of my thinking is that Allen really does run less and throws more.  Who knows, maybe that doesn't happen, which would also be unfortunate.  

 

 

Do those rankings take into account Allen only having 16 games last season?

[PBF81]

2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Kelce is a conventional sized tight end. Kincaid is a true tweener.  He could be a big wideout in a pinch.  He's close to Evans.  He's like Hernandez was.  Kelce is different.  

 

Regardless, there is nothing to suggest Beane was copying KC.  Nothing.  

 

If Kincaid works out to what they said he will, then his role will be identical to Kelce's, their size has nothing to do with it.  

Kelce does anything but play in a conventional TE role.  He's primarily on the field as a receiver.  

 

If all we get from Kincaid is "Hernandez," then it'll be yet another draft failure for Beane.   Which TE Evans are you referring to?  

 

 

3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

He would use it more if he had more time in the pocket
 

We had way too many jailbreaks last year

 

Hence my comment in response.   

 

 

[fergie's ire]

49 minutes ago, NewEra said:

“Originality” LOL

What?  You don't miss the days of "original" drafting like picking a run of the mill safety with the 10th  pick of the draft or moving into the first round to pick a DT who was the third best DL on his Maryland team?  Or what about having zero talent on the team and being in desperate need of constructing a legit NFL roster and so using your early 1st round pick to get a "waterbug" running back.  Ahhhh, yes.  Original drafting.  Those were the days.