Torrence is the best news out of week one

[BuffaloBillyG]

5 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

You make good points, but unless Torrence is flat our better, I'd guess they start Bates and work Torrence in for a series or two in the first half.  Better way to deal with first-NFL game jitters.  If they like what they see, Torrence can play the second half.  

 

 

Yes, I definitely see it as a better guy will start situation. I can also see the thought process of starting Torrence out slowly as well. 

 

In my view, I want to see Torrence against the Jets. This is a guy who didn't give up a single sack in his college career. Didn't have a penalty charged to him at all last year. However, this is the NFL now and I can promise he will have some growing pains. There are too many great players to keep that pace. I am curious (and I'm certain McDermott is as well) how he handles giving up a sack. Does it shake his confidence or does he rise up. Starting him week 1 against one of the most aggressive front 7s in the NFL (if he is the better player)answers a lot of those questions.

[BuffaloBillyG]

28 minutes ago, Fleezoid said:

 

This I have to agree with. History tells us the purse strings on McD's rookies are kept pretty tight (Kincaid may be the exception - fingers crossed). With that said, I would definitely give him some reps against the Jets as long as they temper expectations and Torrence knows it. 

Actually, history says the exact opposite. Especially when it comes to the early round picks.

 

Allen

Edmunds

Dion Dawkins

Zay Jones

Tre White

Ed Oliver

Cody Ford

Spencer Brown

Groot 

 

All early picks that started or played significant snaps. You could throw in guys like Elam (who played a lot) Benford and a few others from over the years as well. I think the issue comes in where the rookies the fans want to see on the field more (Shakir last year is an example) aren't playing that fans start to form the opinion that McDermott doesn't play rookies. 

[AuntieEm]

31 minutes ago, Fleezoid said:

 

This I have to agree with. History tells us the purse strings on McD's rookies are kept pretty tight (Kincaid may be the exception - fingers crossed). With that said, I would definitely give him some reps against the Jets as long as they temper expectations and Torrence knows it. 

 

This is one place where I hope McD self evaluates to point he trusts his rookies to integrate into the team and the skills they bring will be bolstered by the existing talent. This while adding enough variation that opponents are left with too many weaknesses to cover up.  I really think our offense is gonna go to next level and it won't even be close.  Our defense will be opportunistic and likely won't be rated highly in many stats but they will keep opponents stymied in keeping pace with our offenses scoring prowess.  

[julian]

Sal on WGR trying to save face after insisting it was very unlikely Bates wouldn’t be the starter, even going as far as to say Torrence didn’t have a man’s body at 6’4 345lbs lol.

 

 Now instead of just admitting he may be wrong he’s turned to the Bills want Bates as the all purpose backup and losing out to the rookie won’t be because of anything Bates has done wrong.

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, julian said:

Sal on WGR trying to save face after insisting it was very unlikely Bates wouldn’t be the starter, even going as far as to say Torrence didn’t have a man’s body at 6’4 345lbs lol.

 

 Now instead of just admitting he may be wrong he’s turned to the Bills want Bates as the all purpose backup and losing out to the rookie won’t be because of anything Bates has done wrong.

It's funny.  Some people expect rookies to be plug-and-play and blame McD when they aren't seeing a lot of playing time.  Some- Sal, I guess - expect rookies to have long learning curves and work their way in slowly and blame McD for playing his favorites when they aren't ready.

 

In fact, McD is doing what your high school coach did:  study all the guys who are trying out and pick guys for the roster and to start based on how well they seem to do what's expected of them. 

 

The fact that Torrence is getting a lot of first team reps and Dorian Williams isn't is an early indication of how these guys look to their coaches.  As I said, that's an encouraging development out of week 1.  

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

It's funny.  Some people expect rookies to be plug-and-play and blame McD when they aren't seeing a lot of playing time.  Some- Sal, I guess - expect rookies to have long learning curves and work their way in slowly and blame McD for playing his favorites when they aren't ready.

 

In fact, McD is doing what your high school coach did:  study all the guys who are trying out and pick guys for the roster and to start based on how well they seem to do what's expected of them. 

 

The fact that Torrence is getting a lot of first team reps and Dorian Williams isn't is an early indication of how these guys look to their coaches.  As I said, that's an encouraging development out of week 1.  

 

The history of this staff is the usage in camp tells you a lot about how they see guys. The guys that start early and make an impression early have been with the first unit early in camp. Guys that haven't made that immediate camp impression - Epenesa, Basham, Elam - have been guys they have been reluctant to put on the field early. The fact that a week in Torrence has slightly outsnapped Bates at guard with the 1st unit suggests he is very much in contention to start early.

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The history of this staff is the usage in camp tells you a lot about how they see guys. The guys that start early and make an impression early have been with the first unit early in camp. Guys that haven't made that immediate camp impression - Epenesa, Basham, Elam - have been guys they have been reluctant to put on the field early. The fact that a week in Torrence has slightly outsnapped Bates at guard with the 1st unit suggests he is very much in contention to start early.

That's very much what I see.  Frankly, I think it also carries over from rookie camp and OTAs.  The Bills knew before they got to St. John Fisher that Torrence would get these early first-team reps.   Everyone is being evaluated every day in every imaginable way.  

 

It's also why we see rookies working their way into playing time as the season progresses.  Cook was a good example.   I, along with a lot of people, was disappointed that he wasn't in the regular rotation from day 1.   I was disappointed because I wanted to see him, but also because I knew it meant that he wasn't yet doing some things the staff needed to see before they were willing to give him significant snaps.  As the season progressed he got over the hump, earned some reps, and by the end of the season he was looking like the back the Bills hoped they were getting.  Elam's been even slower; I hope he makes it. 

 

I'm happy to see Torrence getting these early reps, because it is/was a position of great need.   

[NastyNateSoldiers]

On 7/31/2023 at 12:39 PM, GunnerBill said:

 

He was good week 1. He was TERRIBLE week 2 against the Titans and got little better. 

 

His lack of length worries me at tackle. He has done it here and there the odd snap and in pre-season. But as a full time tackle with 32 and a half inch arms.... that is dicey. 

He’s started a couple games at RT and played very well. 

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

He’s started a couple games at RT and played very well. 

 

No he hasn't. Not in the regular season. 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

20 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No he hasn't. Not in the regular season. 

He started week 17 2020 the 56-28 game vs the Dolphins played the whole game and dominated anyone that lined up across from him I remember Bates pancaking Van Ginkel a couple of times . He also stepped in at RT a couple times due to injuries and held his own. 

[GunnerBill]

31 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

He started week 17 2020 the 56-28 game vs the Dolphins played the whole game and dominated anyone that lined up across from him I remember Bates pancaking Van Ginkel a couple of times . He also stepped in at RT a couple times due to injuries and held his own. 

 

He didn't start. The Bills started their normal oline. He did come in for a good chunk of that game when they pulled the starters, that's fair. But Miami were running for the buses by then. And yea he has done the odd few snaps here and there in other games. But I still doubt his capacity to be a long term starting tackle with such a lack of length. He would be an extreme outlier if he were.

[BillsShredder83]

On 7/31/2023 at 1:31 PM, ScottLaw said:

Seriously. If Brown sucks again go with Quess.

Is Shell that bad? I dunno anything about him but I was not a Q fan last year. And the year before we got him he gave up a league worst amount of sacks if I'm remembering right

[BillsShredder83]

On 7/31/2023 at 1:31 PM, ScottLaw said:

Seriously. If Brown sucks again go with Quess.

Is Shell that bad? I dunno anything about him but I was not a Q fan last year. And the year before we got him he gave up a league worst amount of sacks if I'm remembering right

 

 

Side note @NastyNateSoldiers you're tied for my fav poster name on the board lol makes me laugh everytime (tied with 'not at the table karlos' 😅)

[NoSaint]

On 7/30/2023 at 9:37 AM, Don Otreply said:

Newcam2012’s Glass half empty attitude at it’s best,  

 

If one didn’t no better and only read your posts they would think the Bills are one of the worst teams in the league, 

I mean early playoff loss in his post implies pretty good but flawed not “one of the worst teams in the league”

 

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

He’s a journeyman much like Quess… they are both bad but the drop off in pass protection from Brown to Quess was negligible… in fact I think Quess was better when healthy. 

I agree.  Quess is a journeyman right tackle.  You know what you're getting. By comparison, Brown is an adventure.  He'll make some plays for you, but then he'll disappoint.  Quess's consistency is worth something. 

Edited August 4, 2023 by Shaw66

[The Jokeman]

13 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I agree.  Quess is a journeyman right tackle.  You know what you're getting. By comparison, Brown is an adventure.  He'll make some plays for you, but then he'll disappoint.  Quess's consistency is worth something. 

Yet one has to wonder did we bring in Shell to compete with Brown/Quess to start or be the primary backup or replace Hart? 

[Don Otreply]

3 hours ago, NoSaint said:

I mean early playoff loss in his post implies pretty good but flawed not “one of the worst teams in the league”

 

It implies a pretty nonstop stream of posts that are less than positive…

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, The Jokeman said:

Yet one has to wonder did we bring in Shell to compete with Brown/Quess to start or be the primary backup or replace Hart? 

All of the above.   The GM brings in talent to compete for roster spots, including PS spots.  They drafted Torrence with an expectation that he'd start, but the real bottom line is that he was brought in to compete.   

 

If Shell wins the starting job outright, so be it.  If he's the backup to Brown, so be it.   If he's the second back up tackle behind Quess, so be it.   I don't think they expected one outcome or another - they just brought in talent to compete.  

[NastyNateSoldiers]

5 hours ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Is Shell that bad? I dunno anything about him but I was not a Q fan last year. And the year before we got him he gave up a league worst amount of sacks if I'm remembering right

 

 

Side note @NastyNateSoldiers you're tied for my fav poster name on the board lol makes me laugh everytime (tied with 'not at the table karlos' 😅)

Thanks, that’s my Fantasy Football team name.