Torrence is the best news out of week one

[MasterStrategist]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Sure, there are some people who love every move the Bills make at the time they make it. But some of us actually judge each move (or indeed each offseason) on its merits. I said before last season multiple times "they didn't do enough at receiver, their depth outside especially stinks and the big OL move is an old, clapped out vet who has never been as good as the hype even in his prime." 

 

That doesn't mean anything either way in respect of this year's offseason. I don't think anything is a slam dunk but there are strong grounds to think they have made better moves up front and will have upgraded two of their starting spots. At receiver I think they have raised the floor a bit in the receiver room. They are not 1 injury away from Jake Kumerow anymore, but I do think it is telling that almost a week into camp they are still looking at outside options. That tells me they are seeing Sherfield and Harty as much more inside guys and/or they are not yet sure about Shorter's chance to contribute early. But it is fair to say that in terms of the passing game their best chance of a major upgrade is Kincaid hitting the ground running (ideally alongside actually using Dawson Knox more).

I think looking at outside WRs at this time of camp, is more an indictment on players WR7-Wr13.  I could be wrong, but we all knew Shorter was going to be a major WIP, and S/T play right now is less contact/not a great indicator until full pads and contact start.

 

Your last statement is spot on.  Improved OL play, hopefully, should allow Knox to get more involved as well.  If an NFL team can find 3 consistent weapons in the pass game, they have a great chance to be elite.  We're trending that way right now, at least in much better position than LY.  Harty and Sherfield are getting moved all around, at least the day I was at camp. 

 

Nobody we're looking at off the streets right now, is making this WR room...barring an injury.  Perhaps P/S, but I've liked how Coulter looks and Keesawn.  Isabella maybe, if he proves to be a good option in the return game.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

4 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Agree but many here thought he was an upgrade to the oline based on his experience and trust in BB decision making.

 

Most football fans knew he was declining but nevertheless still thought he was a quality stop gap. 

 

Let's be honest here. BB has a pretty poor track record in regards to building a quality and consistent oline.

 

I'm starting to question what Komer is doing too. He's supposed to be one of the best. Frankly, I haven't seen much of the Komer effect.

To be fair to BB, Saffold started out quite good by most evaluations last year. Then by about week 6 he was getting worse each week. 

[Doc]

11 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

My point is many many fans here liked the move. They thought he was an instant upgrade despite his declining status and age. No one was saying or thinking they were getting a pro bowler lineman. Fact is BB and lots of fans were happy Saffold was acquired. They thought he was a viable stop gap. The type that could solidify the line on a very short term basis. Thus, lead the team to a SB.

 

Remember, Cody Ford? How many fans were excited to get him in the 2nd round. Saying he was a steal and going to be a good one. The Torrance situation looks quite similar in many ways. Hopefully, with different results. 

 

Then there's Spencer Brown a huge question mark. 

 

I guess I'm frustrated as a fan because of the failure of the Bills regime to have a very good to great oline. BB has really failed in many ways here and it's clearly cost the team better results. 

 

Whatever anyone thought, Saffold proved to be terrible (and yet made the Pro Bowl again).  He played LG and will be replaced by McGovern who is young and was clearly a better player last year.  Bates started at RG last year and will be the fallback if Torrance doesn't seize the starting job.  As for Brown, the back injury plagued him but admittedly he's the weak link at present.

[That's No Moon]

On 7/29/2023 at 12:00 PM, Allen2Diggs said:

Rousseau seemed to get by Spencer Brown easily in practice and I hope Brandon Shell is given an opportunity to win the RT job.

If Shell wins that job we are doomed.

[CookieG]

12 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Ouch.

Our interior line play has often been so bad that Brown's bad play has kind of gotten a pass.

He's Beane/McD's project, and yes, he has incredible size and athleticism, but like a lot of projects he still may be a couple years away from becoming a good RT. That would fit really well with some teams. Not so well with a team with a wn-now roster.

Just watching him last year...if you had him re-do all of the Combine drills he did, I have the feeling his RAS score would be a great deal lower.  I certainly don't see him running a 4.4 shuttle or a sub 7 second 3 cone drill like he did in the draft process.  I think his back problems are much more than they are letting on.  He looked really stiff last year.

 

It sucks to have those types of problems at such a young age...and especially considering his chosen profession.

 

I can only ope they've resolved somewhat.  But its only a hope.

 

[NickelCity]

Would be great to have a reliable RT on the roster, but I'm not sure we do. It's a shame neither Brown nor Doyle inspire much confidence. 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

On 7/29/2023 at 6:55 PM, Shaw66 said:

I've read the camp reports for three days now, and the best news I've heard is that Torrence moved into the right guard slot of Day 2 and survived at least well enough to be there again on Day 3 (and Bates started getting more work behind Morse).  

 

It wasn't a surprise that McGovern immediately slotted in at left guard, and his arrival almost certainly means the Bills have upgraded the line there.  It's still early, but if Torrence already is showing that he's more capable than Bates on the right, it's really good news for the offensive line.  Two guys who can competently man either side of Morse can mean a big change for Josh in the pocket and for the running backs.   Morse does a good job, but he isn't the stoutest of centers, and having solid guys on either side allows the Bills to take advantage of his strengths rather than having his weakness exploited.

 

I still have my concerned about Spencer Brown, as do many people, but if right tackle is the biggest problem across the line, I can live with that.  Brown has the potential to be special, but If necessary, Doyle or Quessenbery or someone can be at least serviceable.  

Bates can take Spencer job if he’s not playing well. 

[GunnerBill]

9 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

To be fair to BB, Saffold started out quite good by most evaluations last year. Then by about week 6 he was getting worse each week. 

 

He was good week 1. He was TERRIBLE week 2 against the Titans and got little better. 

34 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Bates can take Spencer job if he’s not playing well. 

 

His lack of length worries me at tackle. He has done it here and there the odd snap and in pre-season. But as a full time tackle with 32 and a half inch arms.... that is dicey. 

[billsfan89]

11 hours ago, NickelCity said:

Would be great to have a reliable RT on the roster, but I'm not sure we do. It's a shame neither Brown nor Doyle inspire much confidence. 

 

I wonder how Snell is doing at RT thus far in camp. I think Spencer Brown can and will improve but Snell has a lot of experience under his belt and various levels of productivity.

[Manther]

On 7/29/2023 at 12:30 PM, Augie said:

 

I think the fact that he played an entire season last year without a single penalty tells us something impressive about him “from the neck up”.

 

That, and he gave up ZERO sacks in 46 college games. I would be best to temper my expectations, but this is pretty exciting. A long way to go, but things look good so far! 

 

.

Agreed and excited!

[julian]

8 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Seriously. If Brown sucks again go with Quess.

The guys from NYup shout podcast today were reporting that Brown has has a good camp so far, maybe patience has paid off, fingers crossed.

[NickelCity]

14 hours ago, julian said:

The guys from NYup shout podcast today were reporting that Brown has has a good camp so far, maybe patience has paid off, fingers crossed.

 

Reports have varied to say the least. But it's only been one day of pads. Man RT is important to the season. 

Edited August 1, 2023 by NickelCity

[Sierra Foothills]

On 7/29/2023 at 11:14 AM, mjt328 said:

Some positions can flash in training camp.  But at this point, the linemen are just going through the motions with their hands and feet.  Until they put on pads and are playing at least somewhat physical, it's really hard to draw anything from their performance in practice.

 

 

I believe that Torrence will shine more brightly when the pads come on and that he'll be the opening day starter.

 

Wagers are welcomed.

 

[T master]

There are a lot of those hear that have called for Beane & McD's heads because of this team not being able to go to the SB but after every season Beane seems to address what ever weaknesses the team had in their previous season . McD still being a young HC is learning & i feel once all is right the Bills will bring one home !! 

 

And by the looks of it this might be the year . There are a bunch of the "Experts" that are saying it looks as if the Bills have slipped a bit which i for one am glad and addressing one of the weaknesses being the O line i think will be a strength this year that along with bringing in some bigger RB's to compliment Cook will be the difference maker !! 

 

GO BILLS !!! 

[Thurman#1]

On 7/30/2023 at 12:55 AM, Shaw66 said:

I've read the camp reports for three days now, and the best news I've heard is that Torrence moved into the right guard slot of Day 2 and survived at least well enough to be there again on Day 3 (and Bates started getting more work behind Morse).  

 

It wasn't a surprise that McGovern immediately slotted in at left guard, and his arrival almost certainly means the Bills have upgraded the line there.  It's still early, but if Torrence already is showing that he's more capable than Bates on the right, it's really good news for the offensive line.  Two guys who can competently man either side of Morse can mean a big change for Josh in the pocket and for the running backs.   Morse does a good job, but he isn't the stoutest of centers, and having solid guys on either side allows the Bills to take advantage of his strengths rather than having his weakness exploited.

 

I still have my concerned about Spencer Brown, as do many people, but if right tackle is the biggest problem across the line, I can live with that.  Brown has the potential to be special, but If necessary, Doyle or Quessenbery or someone can be at least serviceable.  

 

 

From the reports I've seen, he hasn't shonw he's more capable than Bates on the right. But he's shown he's capable of being in a legit competition.

 

Which this early is indeed good news.

[Brian Higgins hair]

IMO, I HIGHLY doubt McD will start a rookie guard..against an overly amped up jets D, a wild Jets crowd, against a freshly contracted Q Williams.. in the Monday night football spotlight. 
 

[GimmeSomeProcess]

On 7/30/2023 at 4:58 PM, newcam2012 said:

My point is many many fans here liked the move. They thought he was an instant upgrade despite his declining status and age. No one was saying or thinking they were getting a pro bowler lineman. Fact is BB and lots of fans were happy Saffold was acquired. They thought he was a viable stop gap. The type that could solidify the line on a very short term basis. Thus, lead the team to a SB.

 

Remember, Cody Ford? How many fans were excited to get him in the 2nd round. Saying he was a steal and going to be a good one. The Torrance situation looks quite similar in many ways. Hopefully, with different results. 

 

Then there's Spencer Brown a huge question mark. 

 

I guess I'm frustrated as a fan because of the failure of the Bills regime to have a very good to great oline. BB has really failed in many ways here and it's clearly cost the team better results. 

The situation is nothing like Ford. In terms of prospects, people were figuring out if Ford should play T or G. At no points was he considered the number 1 guard prospect in the draft. Even at Oklahoma, Ford struggled at times inside. 
 

O’Cyrus was getting first round buzz. His work ethic was on record in college and his production was insane. Lastly, the Bills tried forcing Cody to play RT, they never should have. The only thing they have in common is the round they were drafted in

[BuffaloBillyG]

21 hours ago, Brian Higgins hair said:

IMO, I HIGHLY doubt McD will start a rookie guard..against an overly amped up jets D, a wild Jets crowd, against a freshly contracted Q Williams.. in the Monday night football spotlight. 
 

You may very well be right. However here are some counter points to consider as well.

 

- McDermott started a 6th round rookie CB against the Rams in the Thursday opening game last year. A Rams team that at the time was thought to have an amazing passing offense and were celebrating a Super Bowl Title. Now, I concede that part of that was due to necessity with Tre not being back, but the point is he isn't afraid to roll with a rook in a big spot.

 

-Does Bates lining up against QWill bring you comfort? It doesn't to me. I expect that game to get very physical very fast. That's not Bates's game. Give me the guy with the nasty to dish it back.

 

-In any event, they can't shield Torrence because it's a big spot. What happens 2 plays into the game if Morse or Bates roll an ankle and Torrence has to go in? Gotta have him prepped either way.

 

-This team is pushing for a Super Bowl. Having Torrence in that game, against that defense and in that spot is an excellent measuring stick for what we have in him. There is no Bowling Green on an NFL schedule. Every game is a fight.

 

Bottom line is if Torrence isn't starting week 1 it's going to be because he didn't win the spot outright in camp. I don't think for one second McDermott will have him ride pine week one because he's a rookie in a big opening game. If he's one of the 5 best...he'll play.

[Fleezoid]

23 hours ago, Brian Higgins hair said:

IMO, I HIGHLY doubt McD will start a rookie guard..against an overly amped up jets D, a wild Jets crowd, against a freshly contracted Q Williams.. in the Monday night football spotlight. 
 

 

This I have to agree with. History tells us the purse strings on McD's rookies are kept pretty tight (Kincaid may be the exception - fingers crossed). With that said, I would definitely give him some reps against the Jets as long as they temper expectations and Torrence knows it. 

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

 

 

Bottom line is if Torrence isn't starting week 1 it's going to be because he didn't win the spot outright in camp. I don't think for one second McDermott will have him ride pine week one because he's a rookie in a big opening game. If he's one of the 5 best...he'll play.

You make good points, but unless Torrence is flat our better, I'd guess they start Bates and work Torrence in for a series or two in the first half.  Better way to deal with first-NFL game jitters.  If they like what they see, Torrence can play the second half.