Torrence is the best news out of week one

[letsgoteam]

10 hours ago, Ayjent said:

Torrence provided a huge upgrade at UF last yr and unlike many players at UF on the OL and DL that i think have been overvalued in drafts, Torrence was probably right on target with his 1st round grade.   I think if healthy he'll be a pretty solid player if not exceptional and i think that the right side of the OL for Allen is most important to the success of the offense.  If they hold their own this offense will be unstoppable.

So I dont have specific examples, but this is more of my feelings, but it seems there are these OL in the draft who had amazing college careers and by accounts of most fans of football think/say that they will be solid 10 yr players and yet they go late first or second round that by the end of their careers in the "redraft articles" will have that player going in like the top 20. 

[Ayjent]

7 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

You guys can say all of this, but I'm not buying it.  Bates knows the system and o'Cyrus doesn't.  Bates's talent is his quickness and brains, the stuff that shows up without pads.  Torrence's bulk is what gives him an advantage when the pads come on.  So if Torrence already is earning snaps ahead of Bates, in the kind of practices where Bates should have the advantage, I think it means Torrence is impressing. 

 

The Bills already seem to have decided that Williams isn't ready for the middle, but Torrence hasn't struggled that way.

I hope and think you are right about that being the reason Torrence is earning snaps. By all accounts he is a smart guy and a hard worker.  He followed Napier to UF and UF immediately went from decent to pretty tough, especially running the ball with Torrence in the lineup. It was hard to assess the pass protection sometimes because Richardson was so erratic and lacked any kind of presence or trust in the pocket.  (I’m still confused what teams saw in Richardson beyond promise - bc I saw a guy with talent of Josh Allen physically but lacked that fire to win and seemed to get rattled very easily and meltdown - he had a good game against Utah but was uneven and at times abysmal in his ability to process reads and deliver the ball on time).  
 

Torrence gave the line an edge and showed up against pro level talent many weeks playing in the SEC, being steady.  The run game was a solid aspect of UF’s offense and Torrence was a big part of it. 

[newcam2012]

14 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I've read the camp reports for three days now, and the best news I've heard is that Torrence moved into the right guard slot of Day 2 and survived at least well enough to be there again on Day 3 (and Bates started getting more work behind Morse).  

 

It wasn't a surprise that McGovern immediately slotted in at left guard, and his arrival almost certainly means the Bills have upgraded the line there.  It's still early, but if Torrence already is showing that he's more capable than Bates on the right, it's really good news for the offensive line.  Two guys who can competently man either side of Morse can mean a big change for Josh in the pocket and for the running backs.   Morse does a good job, but he isn't the stoutest of centers, and having solid guys on either side allows the Bills to take advantage of his strengths rather than having his weakness exploited.

 

I still have my concerned about Spencer Brown, as do many people, but if right tackle is the biggest problem across the line, I can live with that.  Brown has the potential to be special, but If necessary, Doyle or Quessenbery or someone can be at least serviceable.  

Wishful thinking here at its best. We don't know how Torrance will play come real time. McGovern has his weaknesses. Spencer Brown is a concern. This oline is a work in progress. Who knows how good or bad they will be. I think it's safe to say they are not an elite line. Doubt anyone has them ranked in the top 10. This oline has to play well or it's likely an early playoff loss once again. 

[newcam2012]

12 hours ago, Success said:

We're good at guard, Morse & Dawkins are solid.  As just about everyone has stated - Brown is key to this line.

 

And the potential is there.  Really, if he can make a leap - we could have a top 10 or even top 5 line. What a difference that would be.

 

I don't see this oline being ranked this high. At this point, I'd be happy with a top 15 oline. That would be progress. 

[newcam2012]

9 hours ago, CSBill said:

I’m not giving up on Spencer Brown, but it seems the Bills have options there, Shell and Doyle. And a dark horse option is Ryan Bates. He’s played it before.

 

In the end, I want the five best o-linemen, no matter who. 

Do you see five excellent starters on the oline? 

 

Do you think this is a top 10 oline? 

 

Do you think the oline is more likely to be a strength or weakness of the team. 

 

Do you think will be an oline that can lead the Bills to a SB? 

 

I'm encouraged by the likely upgrades and additions. On paper, they look to be much better than last year. Will it be good enough? 

[Nephilim17]

if Torrence and Kincaid are home runs (I would bet my home on the latter) then it would be great to see a McBeane Draft with a couple of elite players at the top. Would help make a lot of us forget about Epenesa, Basham and possibly Bernard (if he doesn't win the starting MLB spot).

[Chandler#81]

15 hours ago, Augie said:

 

I think the fact that he played an entire season last year without a single penalty tells us something impressive about him “from the neck up”.

 

That, and he gave up ZERO sacks in 46 college games. I would be best to temper my expectations, but this is pretty exciting. A long way to go, but things look good so far! 

 

.

Yeah, but those flat feet… I dunno..😉

 

Maybe Dorsey can really step up his game and create scramble situations with Josh where he’ll go sideline to sideline scrambling and Torrence just waits there in one place and lines up unsuspecting DL to kill them chasing Josh🤔 I agree with @Rubes and others that we wait til pads are on, but when your OG moniker is the only AFL ONLY Player in the HOF, you listen.

 

’nother observation, the very creative play on day 2 where Knox -in double TE in-close formation, has him shift to the backfield and TAKE A HANDOFF is possible with a monster Guard planted there to open a hole. Juss sayin’

Edited July 30, 2023 by Chandler#81

[GreggTX]

No pads so I would go with Kincaid. Still, any good news about our OL is welcome. I'm not thrilled about McGovern, but maybe he and brown will get much better.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

21 hours ago, Allen2Diggs said:

I think we brought enough talent at guard, but Tackle still concerns me.

 

Rousseau seemed to get by Spencer Brown easily in practice and I hope Brandon Shell is given an opportunity to win the RT job.

Maybe this can be a chain reaction that leads to Bates going out there? I have thought all along Brown should have been inside anyway but..

[SoMAn]

9 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Where did I say I don't like Morse?   I said standing his ground is the weak part of his game, and from my observation that is correct.  He gets overpowered sometimes, and he isn't a powerful straight-ahead blocker.  He isn't a great center to run a QB sneak behind.  As you said, he's slightly better than average.  He's smart, he gets downfield well on run plays, and he leads the line well.  But last season, when he had two guards beside him who struggled, his lack of power and strength hurt the Bills.  The two guards had trouble in pass protection, and when one had to doublet team a tackle, Morse also had trouble protecting Allen.  If McGovern and Torrence can do better than Saffold and Bates, Morse's weaknesses will be less exposed, and his overall play will improve.

Oh! 😄  I see how you interpreted that first line.  Mea Culpa. It wasn't stated clearly.

No, I meant it as a rhetorical question, as in 'how can you (everybody) not like Mitch Morse'?   i.e. who doesn't like Mitch?

Lost in the translation. I never meant for it to sound like I thought you didn't like him.  

 

[Shaw66]

Just now, SoMAn said:

Oh! 😄  I see how you interpreted that first line.  Mea Culpa. It wasn't stated clearly.

No, I meant it as a rhetorical question, as in 'how can you (everybody) not like Mitch Morse'?   i.e. who doesn't like Mitch?

Lost in the translation. I never meant for it to sound like I thought you didn't like him.  

 

That's funny.  Thanks.  I do the same thing with "you" all the time.   

 

I like Morse.  I like him because I think the Bills like him for his leadership.  I think he takes charge of the line the way he's supposed to, makes the calls, keeps everything in order.   Frankly, I think that's why they like Bates, too.  

[Shaw66]

7 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Wishful thinking here at its best. We don't know how Torrance will play come real time. McGovern has his weaknesses. Spencer Brown is a concern. This oline is a work in progress. Who knows how good or bad they will be. I think it's safe to say they are not an elite line. Doubt anyone has them ranked in the top 10. This oline has to play well or it's likely an early playoff loss once again. 

There's no wishful thinking in my post.   I didn't declare the offensive line top 10 or anything like that.  I just said that the reps Torrence is getting suggest he's already winning his battle, and that's a good thing, because that's where the Bills most needed help.  And McGovern, whom I didn't call an all-pro or anything.  I just suggested that what we've seen so far suggests that the Bills will have better starting guards.  I said Brown is a concern, so I wasn't doing any wishful thinking there either.   

 

I don't get it. 

[newcam2012]

8 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

There's no wishful thinking in my post.   I didn't declare the offensive line top 10 or anything like that.  I just said that the reps Torrence is getting suggest he's already winning his battle, and that's a good thing, because that's where the Bills most needed help.  And McGovern, whom I didn't call an all-pro or anything.  I just suggested that what we've seen so far suggests that the Bills will have better starting guards.  I said Brown is a concern, so I wasn't doing any wishful thinking there either.   

 

I don't get it. 

I think your assessment of Torrance and McGovern are way too premature. I really am not drawing any kind of conclusion on what we've seen thus far. No pads and likely be just a feeling out and get comfortable situation. Way to soon to make anything out of the little we've seen. Seems likek drinking the cool aid a little to me. Thus, I read your post as wishful thinking. Maybe I'm wrong here.

 

But I get it most want to draw and make positive conclusions. Keep the positivity and optimism flowing. Probably a better and more funny I view things. 

Edited July 30, 2023 by newcam2012

[Doc]

Just now, newcam2012 said:

I think your assessment of Torrance and McGovern are way too premature. I really am not drawing any kind of conclusion on what we've seen this far. No pads and likely be just a feeling out and get comfortable situation. Way to soon to make anything out of the little we've seen. Seems look drinking the cool aid a little to me. Thus, I read your post as wishful thinking. 

 

But I get it most want to draw and make positive conclusions. Keep the positivity and optimism flowing. Probably a better and more funny I view things. 

 

A turnstile would be better than Saffold at LG. 

[Shaw66]

7 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Do you see five excellent starters on the oline? 

 

Do you think this is a top 10 oline? 

 

Do you think the oline is more likely to be a strength or weakness of the team. 

 

Do you think will be an oline that can lead the Bills to a SB? 

 

I'm encouraged by the likely upgrades and additions. On paper, they look to be much better than last year. Will it be good enough? 

All we can do is wait and see how it works, but I'm encouraged.  As we've been saying, repeating, in this thread, the two guards look like they're upgrades, and it's hard to know what the Bills will get out of Brown.   But there's some reason to be optimistic.

 

McDermott loves his jackknife guys.  There are a whole bunch of them on the team.  The result is that players are a lot of positions don't look like the best in the league, but they're versatile.  Versatile is how they want their offensive line to be, apparently.   Not the best pass protectors, but better than average.  Not the best power run blockers, but better than average.  Not the best downfield blockers, but better than average.   The Bills seem to hope that they can pull together winning performances from dedicated athletes who can different things as needed.

 

Torrence clearly does not fit that mold and frankly, I'm encouraged by that.  I don't care that he maybe can't get out on screen passes like Bates can.   My priorities at that spot are (1) can you stop the pass rush, and (2) can you win straight ahead.   He looks like a guy who can do that, and if so, I'll be happy.  

 

To paraphrase what others have said, in terms of pass protection, if you're going to have a weakness, right tackle is the place to have it, because the QB sees the rush coming from there, and because Josh has shown extraordinary ability to avoid the rush from there.   So, if Brown is weak in pass pro, that's not so bad if Torrence can control his man, because Josh can handle the lone rusher from the right.  

 

Having said all that, I also must add that I've never been a huge Dawkins fan.  

 

All in all, offensive line was the concern when the season ended, they've done some things to address it, early reports are positive, and we'll see what happens.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Torrence must be the real deal to unseat Bates before pads go on. Means he’s got it mentally already. Should be exciting news for everyone.

Edited July 30, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[BuffaloBillyG]

8 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

There's no wishful thinking in my post.   I didn't declare the offensive line top 10 or anything like that.  I just said that the reps Torrence is getting suggest he's already winning his battle, and that's a good thing, because that's where the Bills most needed help.  And McGovern, whom I didn't call an all-pro or anything.  I just suggested that what we've seen so far suggests that the Bills will have better starting guards.  I said Brown is a concern, so I wasn't doing any wishful thinking there either.   

 

I don't get it. 

I'm with you on this. Now the 3rd straight practice Torrence is in with the 1s. That suggests not only is he being given an opportunity, he's ahead. Reps now go a long way to get a feeling for those around you. And this is what the Bills need at RG. Continuity. If Bates starts there is a huge shuffle inside of Morse gets knocked out to move Bates to cover C and it hurts the entire make up of the OL.

 

Then looking at LG, even with McGovern not being the best run blocker if he just gets in the path of a defender he's already doing better than what we had last year. I don't understand why some refuse to see that.

 

[Shaw66]

4 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

I think your assessment of Torrance and McGovern are way too premature.

Pardon me, but you're doing what a lot of us do here, which is to read things into posts that weren't there.  

 

I didn't "assess" Torrence at all.   I just said that I'm happy that he already seems to have moved into the starting slot at RG, which is true.  I said that's a good thing, because it means he's on top of the mental aspects of the game - he wouldn't be there if he wasn't able to handle what they were asking him to do. Elam didn't get slotted like that last season, and Cook didn't, either.   McDermott moves guys up only when they've shown they can handle what he's being asked to do.  Torrence isn't being asked yet to knock people on their butts, but he is being asked to know and execute his assignments, pick his man, pick up the calls at the line of scrimmage, and if he didn't do all that correctly in OTAs and practice, he wouldn't be playing ahead of Bates.   In other words, he's done everything they've asked him to do better than Bates does it.   That's a good sign, and because it's been a position of weakness for the Bills, that was an encouraging thing to come out of training camp. 

6 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

I'm with you on this. Now the 3rd straight practice Torrence is in with the 1s. That suggests not only is he being given an opportunity, he's ahead. Reps now go a long way to get a feeling for those around you. And this is what the Bills need at RG. Continuity. If Bates starts there is a huge shuffle inside of Morse gets knocked out to move Bates to cover C and it hurts the entire make up of the OL.

 

Then looking at LG, even with McGovern not being the best run blocker if he just gets in the path of a defender he's already doing better than what we had last year. I don't understand why some refuse to see that.

 

I hadn't seen the reports about today.  Yeah, you and others get it.   

 

Obviously, no one knows how good these guys will be, but we can be pleased about developments so far.  This is one.

 

We also can be unhappy about others.   For me, I'm disappointed Elam hasn't taken charge at CB2.  I'd hoped that he would.   By the end of the season, the Bills were ready to anoint Cook over Motor, and I was hoping the same would happen with Kair.  Hasn't happened. 

[NewEra]

26 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

I think your assessment of Torrance and McGovern are way too premature. I really am not drawing any kind of conclusion on what we've seen thus far. No pads and likely be just a feeling out and get comfortable situation. Way to soon to make anything out of the little we've seen. Seems likek drinking the cool aid a little to me. Thus, I read your post as wishful thinking. Maybe I'm wrong here.

 

But I get it most want to draw and make positive conclusions. Keep the positivity and optimism flowing. Probably a better and more funny I view things. 

If you made a post, this is a given.  Lose the maybe and you’ve made significant progress 

[NoSaint]

22 hours ago, Rubes said:

It's certainly encouraging, but I'd rather wait and see what happens when they get all the pads on and start knocking each other around.

 

Yea, this is way too early to catch o line insight