Torrence is the best news out of week one

[CSBill]

I’m not giving up on Spencer Brown, but it seems the Bills have options there, Shell and Doyle. And a dark horse option is Ryan Bates. He’s played it before.

 

In the end, I want the five best o-linemen, no matter who. 

[Dan in Owego]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

On a similar note, this snippet from Matt Parrino's latest training camp report:

 

 

Spencer Brown taking even a moderate step forward along with improvements at both guard positions would immediately put this OL in the upper half of the league. I'm not expecting a suddenly top 5 unit, but with Allen at QB I'll accept top 15.

Man i'm hoping he puts it together, so much talent to work with i really hope health and Kromer can pull it out of him.

[PrimeTime101]

26 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

Nothing against Torrance, but hearing that Kincaid has been running with 1st team exclusively is probably my favorite.

one could argue.. Kincaid and Knox are BOTH first teamers.

[billsfan89]

22 minutes ago, CSBill said:

I’m not giving up on Spencer Brown, but it seems the Bills have options there, Shell and Doyle. And a dark horse option is Ryan Bates. He’s played it before.

 

In the end, I want the five best o-linemen, no matter who. 

 

I just don't see Doyle being viable there. He was never really anything more than a JAG before the injury and now he is coming off of a very serious injury. I think he gets put on IR to redshirt the year and try to come back in 2024 to make the roster. Shell and Queese are likely the guys to push Brown on the roster. But I do agree that Bates who should see snaps as the "6th" O-linemen out there but it would be nice to see him get some snaps at RT esp if Brown struggles. 

[The Wiz]

18 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

one could argue.. Kincaid and Knox are BOTH first teamers.

It's more of a "I'm surprised McDermott isn't easing him in or earn that playing time" as we've heard before from him.

 

As in he's only practicing with 1st team.  Not 2nd and 3rd also.

Edited July 29, 2023 by The Wiz

[Ethan in Cleveland]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

McGovern and Torrence winning the guard jobs is 100% my expectation. Because they are better players than Ryan Bates. 

Agree. Bates is perfect backup. 

If like to see Snell get a few reps with the 1s.

Hope Elam gets his chance too. He is the best CB#2 on the team. 

24 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

I just don't see Doyle being viable there. He was never really anything more than a JAG before the injury and now he is coming off of a very serious injury. I think he gets put on IR to redshirt the year and try to come back in 2024 to make the roster. Shell and Queese are likely the guys to push Brown on the roster. But I do agree that Bates who should see snaps as the "6th" O-linemen out there but it would be nice to see him get some snaps at RT esp if Brown struggles. 

Agree. If they hadn't drafted him he wouldn't even be on the roster right now. Low talent coming off injury. 

Bates has played the 6th OL before if they want to go with a heavy formation. 

[billsfan89]

12 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

It's more of a "I'm surprised McDermott isn't easing him in or earn that playing time" as we've heard before from him.

 

As in he's only practicing with 1st team.  Not 2nd and 3rd also.

 

I never bought that McD "hates rookies" I think he plays players when he thinks they are ready. Torrence and Kincaid were the best players at their position in the draft and filled needs on the roster. So I am not shocked to see them getting mostly first-team snaps. I can't really think of too many rookies that were worthy of snaps that didn't get them under McD. Josh and Edumonds were thrown in pretty quickly as was Tre White. Ed Oliver was among the top 3 snap getters along the D-line in his rookie year. 

[AuntieEm]

5 hours ago, Warcodered said:

It's hard for me to be to up on anything OL or DL related when they haven't put pads on yet.

 

And while tempers can flare up time to time the real test is when it's an opponent going against you.  You can learn teammates tendencies plus they aren't trying to crush each other.  The preseason games are gonna be the test I want to see passed. 

Edited July 29, 2023 by AuntieEm

[Shaw66]

3 minutes ago, AuntieEm said:

 

And while tempers can flare up time to time the real test is when it's an opponent going against you.  You can learn teammates tendencies plus they aren't trying to crush each other.  The preseason games are gonna be the test I want to see passed. 

You guys can say all of this, but I'm not buying it.  Bates knows the system and o'Cyrus doesn't.  Bates's talent is his quickness and brains, the stuff that shows up without pads.  Torrence's bulk is what gives him an advantage when the pads come on.  So if Torrence already is earning snaps ahead of Bates, in the kind of practices where Bates should have the advantage, I think it means Torrence is impressing. 

 

The Bills already seem to have decided that Williams isn't ready for the middle, but Torrence hasn't struggled that way.

[AuntieEm]

54 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

It's more of a "I'm surprised McDermott isn't easing him in or earn that playing time" as we've heard before from him.

 

As in he's only practicing with 1st team.  Not 2nd and 3rd also.

Well seems McD is allowing Dorsey and the offense to do their offensive planning which is as it should be.  And it needs to see what play designs will work well.  Having a bunch of tall playmskers is gonna make things much easier on Allen.  And I love hearing they have run some well executed screenplays.  That alone can send oline efficiency soaring to top 10 - 15 easily. And it keeps our defense on their toes defending those plays better.  Hard to get defense sharp against a play u can't run well by your offense.  

[AuntieEm]

4 hours ago, BigAl2526 said:

Rousseau had an inside move against Brown to gain a sack yesterday, but I read somewhere it wasn't all Brown's fault, and that generally Brown has shown improvement.  I'm not sure we've heard the end of the Spencer Brown story and the end might be better than most expect.  I don't know that for a fact, but am trying to keep an open mind.

I'm hoping the fact that Briwn took the HR crown from Josh at Micahs charity game.  The fact he was able to swing the bat with the proper velocity on his turning during the swinging process shows the back surgery has healed up to the extent it may allow Brown to use his leverage abilities.  I'm sure he worked on strengthening his core strength once the healing was done. 

[LABILLBACKER]

8 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I've read the camp reports for three days now, and the best news I've heard is that Torrence moved into the right guard slot of Day 2 and survived at least well enough to be there again on Day 3 (and Bates started getting more work behind Morse).  

 

It wasn't a surprise that McGovern immediately slotted in at left guard, and his arrival almost certainly means the Bills have upgraded the line there.  It's still early, but if Torrence already is showing that he's more capable than Bates on the right, it's really good news for the offensive line.  Two guys who can competently man either side of Morse can mean a big change for Josh in the pocket and for the running backs.   Morse does a good job, but he isn't the stoutest of centers, and having solid guys on either side allows the Bills to take advantage of his strengths rather than having his weakness exploited.

 

I still have my concerned about Spencer Brown, as do many people, but if right tackle is the biggest problem across the line, I can live with that.  Brown has the potential to be special, but If necessary, Doyle or Quessenbery or someone can be at least serviceable.  

I'm super stoked that the guard position is looking very good with more support around Morse.  But players like Brown & Quessenberry were the reason we almost lost Josh for the season.  The RT issue is far from solidified.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

8 hours ago, Allen2Diggs said:

I think we brought enough talent at guard, but Tackle still concerns me.

 

Rousseau seemed to get by Spencer Brown easily in practice and I hope Brandon Shell is given an opportunity to win the RT job.

Funny, I’ve heard Brown has looked solid out there 

[Dan in Owego]

51 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I'm super stoked that the guard position is looking very good with more support around Morse.  But players like Brown & Quessenberry were the reason we almost lost Josh for the season.  The RT issue is far from solidified.

If they can keep the interior from being pushed into Josh's face really not to worried about right side pressure, or to be clear less worried.

Edited July 30, 2023 by Dan in Owego

[Dan in Owego]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

You guys can say all of this, but I'm not buying it.  Bates knows the system and o'Cyrus doesn't.  Bates's talent is his quickness and brains, the stuff that shows up without pads.  Torrence's bulk is what gives him an advantage when the pads come on.  So if Torrence already is earning snaps ahead of Bates, in the kind of practices where Bates should have the advantage, I think it means Torrence is impressing. 

 

The Bills already seem to have decided that Williams isn't ready for the middle, but Torrence hasn't struggled that way.

In the Bills perfect world Bates is the ideal back up precisely because of his acumen and flexibility to be a short term solution for all positions, really pulling for Torrence  to be the rare Beane o-line hit🙏👍

[Shaw66]

48 minutes ago, Dan in Owego said:

If they can keep the interior from being pushed into Josh's face really not to worried about right side pressure, or to be clear less worried.

I agree.  It was the pressure up the middle that was the problem. And standing his ground is the weak part of Morse's game.  He gets pushed back.  If the Bills can hold the middle, Josh can deal with the rush from the right side.  

[Dan in Owego]

4 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I agree.  It was the pressure up the middle that was the problem. And standing his ground is the weak part of Morse's game.  He gets pushed back.  If the Bills can hold the middle, Josh can deal with the rush from the right side.  

Along with the hoped improvement of Brown, he at the very least has the athleticism to force rushers outside allowing Josh to step and to the right where he is deadly.

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Funny, I’ve heard Brown has looked solid out there 

What’s even funnier, is that I have read the same thing with a bit of photographic evidence added in from a post in one of the TC threads, 

 

so what’s one to think concerning these contrary view points? 
 

after the first couple of days in pads in TC  we will all likely have a bit clearer picture, won’t we…, 

 

till then I will keep my powder dry, as the saying goes,

[SoMAn]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

I agree.  It was the pressure up the middle that was the problem. And standing his ground is the weak part of Morse's game.  He gets pushed back.  If the Bills can hold the middle, Josh can deal with the rush from the right side.  

How can you not like Morse? He's smart and has done a decent, if not great job at center. He's probably sightly better than average, but he's no Kent Hull. I can see the Bills looking at signing a top FA center or drafting one early next year. 

I'm optimistic about the o-line and I believe Brown may make some of his detractors eat their words. He's only in year 3 and he was playing catch up after being injured last year. 

[Shaw66]

1 minute ago, SoMAn said:

How can you not like Morse? He's smart and has done a decent, if not great job at center. He's probably sightly better than average, but he's no Kent Hull. I can see the Bills looking at signing a top FA center or drafting one early next year. 

I'm optimistic about the o-line and I believe Brown may make some of his detractors eat their words. He's only in year 3 and he was playing catch up after being injured last year. 

Where did I say I don't like Morse?   I said standing his ground is the weak part of his game, and from my observation that is correct.  He gets overpowered sometimes, and he isn't a powerful straight-ahead blocker.  He isn't a great center to run a QB sneak behind.  As you said, he's slightly better than average.  He's smart, he gets downfield well on run plays, and he leads the line well.  But last season, when he had two guards beside him who struggled, his lack of power and strength hurt the Bills.  The two guards had trouble in pass protection, and when one had to doublet team a tackle, Morse also had trouble protecting Allen.  If McGovern and Torrence can do better than Saffold and Bates, Morse's weaknesses will be less exposed, and his overall play will improve.