Torrence is the best news out of week one

[Shaw66]

I've read the camp reports for three days now, and the best news I've heard is that Torrence moved into the right guard slot of Day 2 and survived at least well enough to be there again on Day 3 (and Bates started getting more work behind Morse).  

 

It wasn't a surprise that McGovern immediately slotted in at left guard, and his arrival almost certainly means the Bills have upgraded the line there.  It's still early, but if Torrence already is showing that he's more capable than Bates on the right, it's really good news for the offensive line.  Two guys who can competently man either side of Morse can mean a big change for Josh in the pocket and for the running backs.   Morse does a good job, but he isn't the stoutest of centers, and having solid guys on either side allows the Bills to take advantage of his strengths rather than having his weakness exploited.

 

I still have my concerned about Spencer Brown, as do many people, but if right tackle is the biggest problem across the line, I can live with that.  Brown has the potential to be special, but If necessary, Doyle or Quessenbery or someone can be at least serviceable.  

[Rubes]

It's certainly encouraging, but I'd rather wait and see what happens when they get all the pads on and start knocking each other around.

 

[Allen2D̶i̶g̶g̶s̶TBD]

I think we brought enough talent at guard, but Tackle still concerns me.

 

Rousseau seemed to get by Spencer Brown easily in practice and I hope Brandon Shell is given an opportunity to win the RT job.

[Shaw66]

2 minutes ago, Rubes said:

It's certainly encouraging, but I'd rather wait and see what happens when they get all the pads on and start knocking each other around.

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Of course, but like most good players coming out of college, they've already shown that they're good at knocking the other guy around.   The challenge for most of them is from the neck up.  I would guess that from watching film the Bills already know that Torrence is physically better than Bates.  The fact that Torrence is running with the 1s suggests that his head is in the right place.  

 

We'll see.  

[Warcodered]

It's hard for me to be to up on anything OL or DL related when they haven't put pads on yet.

[TheBeaneBandit]

8 minutes ago, Rubes said:

It's certainly encouraging, but I'd rather wait and see what happens when they get all the pads on and start knocking each other around.

 

That's when I actually expect him to take the job and leave everyone else well behind.

[Rubes]

Just now, Shaw66 said:

Of course, but like most good players coming out of college, they've already shown that they're good at knocking the other guy around.   The challenge for most of them is from the neck up.  I would guess that from watching film the Bills already know that Torrence is physically better than Bates.  The fact that Torrence is running with the 1s suggests that his head is in the right place.  

 

We'll see.  

 

Could be. I just think most of what we're seeing this first week is just moving people around to see how they mesh with others, how they understand and handle the calls and responsibilities, and to see how much of the system they are studying and integrating. It's nice to see that Torrence is fitting in well enough, but even OL who looked great in college and walkthroughs have crapped the bed once an NFL-caliber DL started knocking them around. Fingers crossed.

 

[TheBeaneBandit]

I thought it was one of the best moves in a long time that the bills just went and drafted a pure guard not these utility guys that could play all five spots but just barely adequately if even that.

[Augie]

53 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Of course, but like most good players coming out of college, they've already shown that they're good at knocking the other guy around.   The challenge for most of them is from the neck up.  I would guess that from watching film the Bills already know that Torrence is physically better than Bates.  The fact that Torrence is running with the 1s suggests that his head is in the right place.  

 

We'll see.  

 

I think the fact that he played an entire season last year without a single penalty tells us something impressive about him “from the neck up”.

 

That, and he gave up ZERO sacks in 46 college games. I would be best to temper my expectations, but this is pretty exciting. A long way to go, but things look good so far! 

 

.

Edited July 29, 2023 by Augie

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

31 minutes ago, Allen2Diggs said:

I think we brought enough talent at guard, but Tackle still concerns me.

 

Rousseau seemed to get by Spencer Brown easily in practice and I hope Brandon Shell is given an opportunity to win the RT job.

I don’t know enough about Shell, but the fact that he has a lot of starts under his belt is maybe promising. I think Brown is just way too raw to rely on. 

[Big Turk]

38 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I've read the camp reports for three days now, and the best news I've heard is that Torrence moved into the right guard slot of Day 2 and survived at least well enough to be there again on Day 3 (and Bates started getting more work behind Morse).  

 

It wasn't a surprise that McGovern immediately slotted in at left guard, and his arrival almost certainly means the Bills have upgraded the line there.  It's still early, but if Torrence already is showing that he's more capable than Bates on the right, it's really good news for the offensive line.  Two guys who can competently man either side of Morse can mean a big change for Josh in the pocket and for the running backs.   Morse does a good job, but he isn't the stoutest of centers, and having solid guys on either side allows the Bills to take advantage of his strengths rather than having his weakness exploited.

 

I still have my concerned about Spencer Brown, as do many people, but if right tackle is the biggest problem across the line, I can live with that.  Brown has the potential to be special, but If necessary, Doyle or Quessenbery or someone can be at least serviceable.  

 

In Computer Cowboy's rankings of the Online, the Bills are 26th in the NFL but this is almost entirely due to Brown...

 

Dawkins is a 91% and the rest of the line is pretty solidly graded and then Brown is at 8%. Basically he alone takes them from a top 10 ranked line according to his metrics to 26th.

 

That says a lot and none of it is good. Better hope most of his issues were back related last year and he has a clean bill of health this year.

[GunnerBill]

McGovern and Torrence winning the guard jobs is 100% my expectation. Because they are better players than Ryan Bates. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

I was big on Torrence even before the draft. Love what he brings to the table. I think the kid can be a good to great NFL guard.

 

I do wish he was lined up next to a solid RT. Hopefully Brown takes some step forward and becomes even average. I think he can. My biggest worry about Brown is that tall guys who end up with back issue sometimes tend to have it be a reoccurring issue.  

[NewEra]

49 minutes ago, Allen2Diggs said:

I think we brought enough talent at guard, but Tackle still concerns me.

 

Rousseau seemed to get by Spencer Brown easily in practice and I hope Brandon Shell is given an opportunity to win the RT job.

I’ve read Rousseau beat brown, but I’ve also read that brown has played very well and looks great.  🤷🏻‍♂️ 

 

Other than Dorsey, I think Brown is the biggest key to our season

[JerseyBills]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

I've read the camp reports for three days now, and the best news I've heard is that Torrence moved into the right guard slot of Day 2 and survived at least well enough to be there again on Day 3 (and Bates started getting more work behind Morse).  

 

It wasn't a surprise that McGovern immediately slotted in at left guard, and his arrival almost certainly means the Bills have upgraded the line there.  It's still early, but if Torrence already is showing that he's more capable than Bates on the right, it's really good news for the offensive line.  Two guys who can competently man either side of Morse can mean a big change for Josh in the pocket and for the running backs.   Morse does a good job, but he isn't the stoutest of centers, and having solid guys on either side allows the Bills to take advantage of his strengths rather than having his weakness exploited.

 

I still have my concerned about Spencer Brown, as do many people, but if right tackle is the biggest problem across the line, I can live with that.  Brown has the potential to be special, but If necessary, Doyle or Quessenbery or someone can be at least serviceable.  

I feel like Shell will be the one to takeover RT if needed.  Nice depth piece

Article on him last year-

https://www.si.com/nfl/bills/news/buffalo-bills-sign-brandon-shell-free-agency-scouting-report-miami-dolphins-mike-mcdaniel-matt-applebaum

[wppete]

The other great thing is we have Bates now that can play all positions and especially be the #1 back up at both Guard sports and Center. 

[Success]

We're good at guard, Morse & Dawkins are solid.  As just about everyone has stated - Brown is key to this line.

 

And the potential is there.  Really, if he can make a leap - we could have a top 10 or even top 5 line. What a difference that would be.

 

[MasterStrategist]

22 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I’ve read Rousseau beat brown, but I’ve also read that brown has played very well and looks great.  🤷🏻‍♂️ 

 

Other than Dorsey, I think Brown is the biggest key to our season

100% agree.  Going into the offseason, this was my offensive focus to improve (in this order)

1. OL

2. Slot - finding a consistent "3rd" target for Josh

3. Redzone offense

4. Better playcalling/integrating all our weapons

 

To your last sentence, I'd put Kincaid's success near top of list (just in terms of potential impact it could have).  I think IOL and Spencer Brown were "tied" on my list, I just have faith he can take the next step, at least be a serviceable RT. We all knew Saffold and Bates, are what they are.  Bates is a great backup type/OK starter, his versatility is his best asset.

 

Picking up Shell was a good, break-glass move for this season.  He's the equivalent to Bates, IMO, in terms of starter level quality play (but at RT).  Otherwise, RT becomes 1st-2nd pick next year.

 

I like what Beane did at OL, even if it means we need to have some "faith/hope" that Brown develops his game.  Likewise at skill positions, we don't need Kincaid to be a game breaker but if he's a reliable 3rd option, that is perfect...it comes down to Dorsey finding ways to get mismatches week to week.

 

 

 

 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

From what I read, Bates took the majority of the snaps at RG.  Torrence got some, but didn't read anything to indicate he in any way outplayed Bates.  Don't think Torrence looked bad either, but not sure II heard anything to indicate he'll be the starter either.  Think it's a good problem to have overall. 

 

I do think in 2024 Bates will be the starting center with Torrence and McGovern next to him.

[BigAl2526]

1 hour ago, Allen2Diggs said:

I think we brought enough talent at guard, but Tackle still concerns me.

 

Rousseau seemed to get by Spencer Brown easily in practice and I hope Brandon Shell is given an opportunity to win the RT job.

Rousseau had an inside move against Brown to gain a sack yesterday, but I read somewhere it wasn't all Brown's fault, and that generally Brown has shown improvement.  I'm not sure we've heard the end of the Spencer Brown story and the end might be better than most expect.  I don't know that for a fact, but am trying to keep an open mind.