Belichick on the hot seat in N.E.

[Sierra Foothills]

16 hours ago, Behindenemylines said:

Rodgers is still all about Rodgers. Once it’s starts to fall apart-which it will because the public hears about it well after the team is feeling it- Rodgers will be throwing people under the bus-bitching about the money he gave up, and complaining about lack of weapons etc. he is EGO on steroids and it’s never his fault.  He will be the problem certainly 
 

he will flash at times but his attitude and self centered attitude will not fly with Saleh for long.  
 

he can’t stay in any relationship for long football, family, or women without drama and issues.  Why will the Effing Jets be different.   
 

I can’t wait for the implosion. 
 

 

I personally don't like Aaron Rodgers and I too have suspicions about his character.

 

Therefore I can't say you're wrong however I think he's still good enough and smart enough to have a solid year.

 

It should be fun to watch unfold for sure.

 

 

 

[Saxum]

6 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

Brady was a large part of the success. What people forget sadly is:

 

cassell: went 11-5 with him as the starter. 
 

JImmy G/ Jacoby Brissett: Went 3-1 and the 1 loss Brissett the 3rd string QB had a broken thumb.

 

My point is he went 14-6 when Brady was out. IMO like Brady, Father Time has caught up to BB as well.  I believe change will happen but not for another year. 

 

Br*dy was not key - Ernie Adams was.  What is Beli-CHEAT's record with and "without" Ernie Adams who was Director of Football research, dirty tricks and cheating?

[first_and_ten]

On 8/1/2023 at 3:33 PM, PatsFanNH said:

Confused… how is it bad coaching when your players openly admit they did something stupid and they were even told not to do in the Vegas game? How is it bad coaching when the player doesn’t have common sense to protect the dang ball near the goal line? How is it bad coaching when players are in position but fail to make the tackle?  That’s just poor playing on the players part.

 

Now last year I was giddy happy they didn’t squeak into the playoffs because that meant he would be forced to remove dumb and dumber from coaching the O. Now that was arrogant on his part.

 

Now let’s look at Cleveland. He took over a team that was 3-13. His first year improved that to 6-10.. followed by two 7-9 years. Meh at best.. the NEXT year it all came together and they went 11-5 and made the playoffs and won a playoff game!  the next year Modell announced before the season they were moving the team and they fell flat on their face at 5-11.  Most would blame the owner for that but hey BB was the HC and got fired for it. 
 

I also notice you fail to mention he went 11-5 and 3-1 when Brady was unavailable either from injury or suspension.  I was most impressed with the 3-1 as he went 1-1 with a rookie QB  who was not ready for prime time at all. 
 

My point is he is/was a great HC if not the greatest. IMO he is now 70 and he doesn’t have the passion and or stamina for it anymore. 

 

You're making more excuses. Coaches always take the heat when players make mental mistakes or don't execute properly. That is coaching 101, having your players prepared so they don't make those kind of mistakes. My point is not that Belichick is a bad coach. My point is that he's not the GOAT. 

[PatsFanNH]

3 hours ago, first_and_ten said:

 

You're making more excuses. Coaches always take the heat when players make mental mistakes or don't execute properly. That is coaching 101, having your players prepared so they don't make those kind of mistakes. My point is not that Belichick is a bad coach. My point is that he's not the GOAT. 

I disagree. I think like everyone else now in his 70’s he has slowed down and well perhaps the game passed him by a bit. But his body of work shows he is the GOAT IMO of course.

[Gregg]

2 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

I disagree. I think like everyone else now in his 70’s he has slowed down and well perhaps the game passed him by a bit. But his body of work shows he is the GOAT IMO of course.

 

I don't think the game has passed him by at all. Going from Brady to Jones is like going from a Porsche to a tricycle. If he did part ways with the Pats, I would hope Terry would offer him a blank check to come to Buffalo. Bill with an elite level QB and a solid roster well the results speak for themselves. 

[PatsFanNH]

42 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

I don't think the game has passed him by at all. Going from Brady to Jones is like going from a Porsche to a tricycle. If he did part ways with the Pats, I would hope Terry would offer him a blank check to come to Buffalo. Bill with an elite level QB and a solid roster well the results speak for themselves. 

Lol that’s the other issue, Bill is NOT an elite GM. He can cook he is just bad at picking the groceries now.. lol

 

as for Mac Jones, he had a good rookie year then BB stuck him with dumb and dumber and they neutered the one big advantage Jones had coming out of college.. his brain. Now if Jones stinks again this year I will agree with you.. but last year was all on BB Ego.

 

 

[Gregg]

3 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

Lol that’s the other issue, Bill is NOT an elite GM. He can cook he is just bad at picking the groceries now.. lol

 

as for Mac Jones, he had a good rookie year then BB stuck him with dumb and dumber and they neutered the one big advantage Jones had coming out of college.. his brain. Now if Jones stinks again this year I will agree with you.. but last year was all on BB Ego.

 

 

 

This is year 3 for Jones. Usually QB's show they have the "it" factor by year 3. Allen struggled his rookie year, showed nice improvement in year 2 and then exploded in year 3. Both Burrow and Herbert showed they had the "it" factor right from the start. Mahomes sat for a year but also showed he was going to be a great one early on. Lawrence struggled his rookie year and then had a nice year 2. You can tell he is going to be another great one. So, if Jones struggles this year, then chances are the Pats don't have their franchise QB. 

[PatsFanNH]

26 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

This is year 3 for Jones. Usually QB's show they have the "it" factor by year 3. Allen struggled his rookie year, showed nice improvement in year 2 and then exploded in year 3. Both Burrow and Herbert showed they had the "it" factor right from the start. Mahomes sat for a year but also showed he was going to be a great one early on. Lawrence struggled his rookie year and then had a nice year 2. You can tell he is going to be another great one. So, if Jones struggles this year, then chances are the Pats don't have their franchise QB. 

You may be right.  Jones had a very good rookie year, he was the best rookie QB in his class. Last year he regressed, IMO because he had dumb and dumber as coaches. I agree this is the year he has to show he has “it”. I am expecting a rebound season for him, how good will he be? I don’t know..  but I want to know this year. 

[PBF81]

18 hours ago, first_and_ten said:

You're making more excuses. Coaches always take the heat when players make mental mistakes or don't execute properly. That is coaching 101, having your players prepared so they don't make those kind of mistakes. My point is not that Belichick is a bad coach. My point is that he's not the GOAT. 

 

To your point, and these are just facts, no opinions.  

 

Belichick in all seasons w/o Brady, including the continuation of the first two games of the 2001 season before Mo Lewis set Belichick on the track to stardom, ...

 

He was 77-87 in the regular season (.470), 78-89 (.467)  total including playoffs.  

 

He was 1-2 in the Playoffs having made the playoffs only twice during those 10 seasons.  

 

Despite being heralded as a defensive genius, with the #1 Scoring Defense in Cleveland the year that he made the playoffs, and with the #2 Scoring Defense in 2021 when he made the playoffs, his defenses allowed an average of 453 Yards and 38 points in his two playoff losses.  His only playoff win was against the Bledsoe-led Patriots in '94.  Bledsoe is one the worst playoff QBs in NFL history who led the league in INTs that season, his second, with 27, 8 more than the QB with the next most INTs.  

 

Over those 10 seasons his average Scoring Offense ranked 17th, Yardage Offense 19th, Scoring D 11th, Yardage D 13th.  

 

In 1994, the only year that his defense in Cleveland ranked much above average, he had the easiest schedule in the AFC and the 2nd easiest schedule in the NFL.  

 

In his only two other winning seasons, 2008 and 2020, he had the 5th and 4th easiest schedules in the NFL.  (Side note:  In 2020 four of the five easiest schedules in the NFL were our division with us having had the easiest)  

 

Head Coaches with comparable winning percentages that during the same time period from 1991 on ...

 

Rex Ryan, 127 Games, (.480), 4-2 in the Playoffs, 2 appearances 

Lovie Smith, 193 Games, (.479) 3-3 in the Playoffs, 3 appearances 

Marchibroda, 186 Games, (.470) 2-4 in the Playoffs, 4 appearances 

Ray Rhodes, 80 Games, (.469) 1-2 in the Playoffs, 2 appearances (Identical to Belichick, in half the seasons)  

Jerry Glanville, 129 Games, (.465) 3-4 in the Playoffs, 4 appearances 

 

Belichick, 164 Games, (.470) 1-2 in the Playoffs, 2 appearances 

 

Not one of those coaches had better QBs than Belichick's had to work with apart from Brady.  

 

Enter Opinion: 

 

That speaks for itself.  Belichick is two coaches.  One no better than those listed above,  and then the one that he gets credit for being with Brady on his team.  

 

The problem is that while Belichick has done anything but succeed without Brady, Brady has succeeded equally without Belichick.  In New England he won 6 Super Bowls in 19 seasons, about 1 SB for every 3 seasons.  In Tampa, and at the ages of 43, 44, an 45, he led the Bucks to the playoffs and won a SB, again, in his mid-40s, one in three seasons.  

 

Everyone can make of it what they want.  I would strongly suggest however that we've ditched coaches here for less, and had McD turned that record here, he wouldn't be here now.  

 

 

Edited August 19, 2023 by PBF81

[P Riv]

Belechick isn't on the hot seat, but he's one season away from retirement anyway.  A year after he retires we'll be talking about when Any Reid and Mahomes catch up to him and Brady.  NFL = Not For Long

[Gregg]

Just now, P Riv said:

Belechick isn't on the hot seat, but he's one season away from retirement anyway.  A year after he retires we'll be talking about when Any Reid and Mahomes catch up to him and Brady.  NFL = Not For Long

 

9 Super appearances and 6 championships as a HC. I know Reid and Mahomes are very good but that will be tough to catch up to. Let Bill retire from NE and come here. Then he can make it 10/7 respectively

[Thrivefourfive]

Mac Jones is being used by Belichick to get himself back in the good graces of Kraft. BB sabotaged his second year starter with a defensive coordinator’s offense, and Jones acted up, showing he’s a malcontent. Now BB brings in super duper best friend O’Brien to drive Jones right off the team. Belichick gets a fresh start with another QB next season. Onward and upward. 

[AuntieEm]

On 8/2/2023 at 10:12 AM, Doc said:

The first 4 games are killer. 

 

On 8/2/2023 at 5:00 PM, PatsFanNH said:

I am just not sold on Rogers.  I think if things dont click right away he starts sulking and giving half efforts AGAIN. As for the Jets is there a QB they ever had that was truly good. they kill QBs like the browns  kill football careers. (Do not mention Namath, IMO he is the most over rated ever!)

 

 

I liked Chad Pennington think he was a decent talent till injury made him useless. 

[FilthyBeast]

1 hour ago, P Riv said:

Belechick isn't on the hot seat, but he's one season away from retirement anyway.  A year after he retires we'll be talking about when Any Reid and Mahomes catch up to him and Brady.  NFL = Not For Long

 

BB is 71 and Andy Reid is 65.

 

This is something lost in the current discussion about Mahomes/Reid catching BB/Brady, in other words it's not happening at least not Mahomes and Reid together.

 

Also why I think the Mahomes hype will have to slow down at some point because he's not going to have Kelce/Reid/Chris Jones together with him his entire career or much longer for that matter.

[Success]

6 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

BB is 71 and Andy Reid is 65.

 

This is something lost in the current discussion about Mahomes/Reid catching BB/Brady, in other words it's not happening at least not Mahomes and Reid together.

 

Also why I think the Mahomes hype will have to slow down at some point because he's not going to have Kelce/Reid/Chris Jones together with him his entire career or much longer for that matter.

 

It's no criticism of McD - but I always flinch a bit when people say Mahomes is better than Allen because of the success KC has had.  Reid is the difference-maker there. He's just a better coach - really, the best in the league at this point, at least imo.

 

We won't know until the end of their careers how Allen & Mahomes will stack up against each other in future QB rankings.  But I'd bet it's a lot closer than it appears right now, and that Allen has a chance to be viewed as the best of his generation in time.

 

[Saxum]

1 hour ago, P Riv said:

Belechick isn't on the hot seat, but he's one season away from retirement anyway.  A year after he retires we'll be talking about when Any Reid and Mahomes catch up to him and Brady.  NFL = Not For Long

 

If he died on field in NJ Jest  home game would there be crying or clapping?

[FilthyBeast]

2 minutes ago, Success said:

 

It's no criticism of McD - but I always flinch a bit when people say Mahomes is better than Allen because of the success KC has had.  Reid is the difference-maker there. He's just a better coach - really, the best in the league at this point, at least imo.

 

We won't know until the end of their careers how Allen & Mahomes will stack up against each other in future QB rankings.  But I'd bet it's a lot closer than it appears right now, and that Allen has a chance to be viewed as the best of his generation in time.

 

 

I tend to agree with this, but I think if you put Mahomes on the Bills I truly believe he's special enough to overcome McD's shortcomings and likely would have delivered a championship here by now.

 

I think there's no question that the Pats would still be winning SB's as well if he was playing under Belichik.

 

Also one glaring omission here is Joe Burrow who at least right now I still put ahead of JA17 and view as 1B to Mahomes. Zac Taylor was on the brink of being fired after 2 seasons in Cincy but is also now in that top 5 HC discussion because of Burrow and likely going to be the HC there for years to come.

[DCofNC]

He should never have become the GM as well.  His drafting has been abysmal.  The team is devoid of talent and can’t outperform if without the great QB.  There’s no one to blame but him for the lack of talent and he can’t coach it past the great QBs without one.

4 hours ago, Success said:

 

It's no criticism of McD - but I always flinch a bit when people say Mahomes is better than Allen because of the success KC has had.  Reid is the difference-maker there. He's just a better coach - really, the best in the league at this point, at least imo.

 

We won't know until the end of their careers how Allen & Mahomes will stack up against each other in future QB rankings.  But I'd bet it's a lot closer than it appears right now, and that Allen has a chance to be viewed as the best of his generation in time.

 

Yeah… we’ll that’s like, your opinion man.

[wppete]

Never underestimate the Hoodie. NE has a solid team this year and if they get decent play at QB they will be a very tough team. 

[steven50]

On 8/3/2023 at 10:21 AM, PatsFanNH said:

Brady was a large part of the success. What people forget sadly is:

 

cassell: went 11-5 with him as the starter. 
 

JImmy G/ Jacoby Brissett: Went 3-1 and the 1 loss Brissett the 3rd string QB had a broken thumb.

 

My point is he went 14-6 when Brady was out. IMO like Brady, Father Time has caught up to BB as well.  I believe change will happen but not for another year. 

The difference is those were players stepping into a winning team, with a winning attitude, with opposition that was terrified of those NE teams. NE is no longer a world beater that other teams fear and the winning locker room attitude and swagger left with Brady. The Bill Belicheck mystic is gone they are just any middle of the pack team now.  No one except bottom feeders would pencil in a Patriots game as a definite loss at the beginning of the season.

 

They wont sniff playoffs this year, 6, 7 or 8 wins at most this year. Might be a lot worse.