Belichick on the hot seat in N.E.

[JimBob2232]

17 minutes ago, Haslett_Stomp said:

 

Tom Landry comes to mind.  As successful as he was, the game had passed him by and bringing in Jimmy J. resulted in the Cowboy's Super Bowl run, which was certainly aided by the Herschel Walker trade.

Yup.  And in college guys like Joe Paterno (spare me the scandal stuff - the last 10 years were a mess even without that) & Jim Boeheim.  You want to see people go out like Coach K.  But sometimes they just hold on too long.  

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

7 hours ago, Billznut said:

Bill Belichick will be out of New England when HE decides he’s ready to walk away. 

 

6 hours ago, AuntieEm said:

 

  While I agree Belichick will get to decide when he wants to walk away from coaching in the NFL he still doesn't get to decide when he is let go by the owner of the team.  I don't know that Kraft even considers Bill anything but a highly paid and productive employee.  Could also be. Belichick himself is ready to retire.  He certainly has very little he can add to his career.  

 

Assuming he has a half way successful season I'd agree, he won't be fired. Like the rumored story states, one playoff win which IMO is asking a lot.  Maybe he still keeps the job without the win depending how everything else goes.  But a 4th place finish which most people are predicting in the AFC East could get him canned.

 

NE has got a lot of bad press over the years due to all the cheating, and other issues that have happened there and in turn it's given Kraft a bad name in ownership circles.  Maybe much of it Kraft wasn't even aware of until too late, who knows?  Likely he was more willing to put up with it though when the team was winning every year.  Like many he may also have given more credit to BB for their winning, but every year that goes by shows it was more due to Brady than him.  So putting all these things together, I could see him getting fired if they have a 4th place finish with a 6-11 or so record.

 

The one thing IMO that Belichick is hanging around for is the all time most wins record.  But needs 30 more wins to tie.  That's at least 3 more above .500 seasons to get there.  So tend to agree without the team showing considerable improvement this year by winning about 10 games, it could take 4 or 5 more years  to do so and can't see Kraft giving him that much time if all the team is doing is playing .500 ball at best

[Success]

7 hours ago, Billznut said:

Bill Belichick will be out of New England when HE decides he’s ready to walk away. 

 

I used to think that's true - but not anymore.

 

It sounds like there is real tension between him & Kraft. And Kraft is tired of not winning playoff games.  If the Pats miss the playoffs this year, a change would not be shocking.

 

[PromoTheRobot]

1 minute ago, Success said:

 

I used to think that's true - but not anymore.

 

It sounds like there is real tension between him & Kraft. And Kraft is tired of not winning playoff games.  If the Pats miss the playoffs this year, a change would not be shocking.

 

 

The Pats need a qualified front office. Sometimes I think Belichick's dog really is running the Patriots drafts. 

 

And since you can never have an independent GM while Bill is still around, he has to go.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

3 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

He may have been emphasizing BB's stated personal pronouns.  

 

 

NEOW!!!

[Big Turk]

Belichick kind of knows he isn't going anywhere with Mac Jones so he is focused on the D since that's their only hope.

[Jauronimo]

3 hours ago, PBF81 said:

Belichick is a tale of two coaches.  

 

With Brady "he" was great.  But without Brady he wasn't even average, he's pretty much sucked.  One playoff win, and that against the Bledsoe-led Pats in one of the worst playoff games by any QB in the playoffs from a horrific career playoff QB.  

 

I hope he's around for another decade to continue to hammer the Pats into the ground while continuing to live off of the Brady years.  

 

 

Totally disagree.  Belichick is a top 5 coach all time no matter how you slice it.  Brady wasn't some cant miss, ready to play, prospect.  Belichick was an instrumental part of his development and success.  The way the offense evolved as Brady gained experience was textbook on how to develop a QB.  He was a capable game manager his first few seasons.  Brady goes down and he takes Matt Cassel to 11 wins.  His teams constantly out perform their level of talent with next level preparation and attention to detail.  Pretty much any other coach in the league would have been lucky to to win 6 games with the roster they've fielded post Brady.  Its a small miracle he got them to an unreal post season ass kicking in Orchard Park with Mac Jones.

 

And there is no debating that he is one of the best defensive minds to ever walk the sidelines.  Buffalo would have a super bowl trophy if not for Belichick and his game plan to slow down the K Gun.

[PBF81]

2 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

Totally disagree.  Belichick is a top 5 coach all time no matter how you slice it.  Brady wasn't some cant miss, ready to play, prospect.  Belichick was an instrumental part of his development and success.  The way the offense evolved as Brady gained experience was textbook on how to develop a QB.  He was a capable game manager his first few seasons.  Brady goes down and he takes Matt Cassel to 11 wins.  His teams constantly out perform their level of talent with next level preparation and attention to detail.  Pretty much any other coach in the league would have been lucky to to win 6 games with the roster they've fielded post Brady.  Its a small miracle he got them to an unreal post season ass kicking in Orchard Park with Mac Jones.

 

And there is no debating that he is one of the best defensive minds to ever walk the sidelines.  Buffalo would have a super bowl trophy if not for Belichick and his game plan to slow down the K Gun.

 

Disagree as you may, I think you need to look a little harder at the circumstances of that 11-5 season with Cassel.  He had the 2nd easiest schedule he's ever had there.  

 

Of their 11 wins that season, only one was against a team with 10+ wins, that was Miami, which had Pennington as their QB and Sparano as their coach.  Hardly people that are ever even going to get a sniff for the HoF.  That win was little more than a simple win over a relatively equally matched at best divisional opponent.  

 

Otherwise, they beat teams that finished

2-14

2-14

4-12

5-11

7-9

7-9

7-9

8-8

9-7

9-7

and 11-5 (Miami led by Pennington at QB and Sparano).   

 

Combined record of teams beaten that season:  71-105  (.403)   Nothing to crow about, a lot to be thankful for from the schedule gods.  

 

They took two from us, big surprise as they owned us for 20 years, and split with the Jets and Miami, unable to win either game at home.  They finished tied with Miami and only two games ahead of the Jets, and failed to make the playoffs given that ease of schedule and luck.  They beat no one relevant all season other than Miami in a divisional game.  Miami was obliterated in the wild-card round so they couldn't have been too great wedged in between 1-15 and 7-9 seasons, and also with a similar easy schedule.  (Another clue)  Was Miami's roster better?   Not even close.  Miami had no one near what Moss or Welker were then.  Yet, they beat out the Pats for the division, which makes Sparano better than Belichick that season.  

 

For the entire duration of Brady's tenure, the AFCE never had a single great QB on any of the other three teams, essentially assuring him a division win every season.  

 

Either way, I have no idea how ten other seasons without brady with fair results at best, poor otherwise, can so easily be leapfrogged as to be insignificant in the greater discussion.  

 

I also think you need to take a closer look at which teams they beat over the past three seasons.  It's anything but an impressive list.  And regarding "other coaches not winning 6 games with his roster," the Steelers won 9 games last season to the Pats' 8, and their team was even worse arguably.  They were the first team I looked at.  In '21 the Saints won 9 games to the Pats' 10 with also arguably a worse roster.  And in '20, the Giants, also arguably with a worse team, led by a rookie Daniel Jones and HC Joe Judge, who's awful, won 6 games to the Pats' 7.    

 

Essentially what you're saying is that no other coaches could have beaten up a bunch of teams with losing records, which IMO is ridiculous.  You'll have to try a different angle.  

 

The bottom line is that Belichick's had ten seasons apart from Brady, even two with the same exact teams that played in Super Bowls in immediately adjoining seasons, going 1-1 in them, and put up mediocre results at best.  

 

Going 76-88 (.463) with one Wild-Card playoff round win in 10 other seasons is indefensibly poor.  Absolutely no one would rationally defend that apart form something else, namely his time with Brady at QB.  If McD had done that here he'd have been gone five seasons into that.   Any coach on any team for that matter.  The only reason why Belichick lasted in New England was because Mo Lewis did what Belichick was never going to do, knock Bledsoe out of the game.  Your point about "Brady gaining experience" may have made some sense if it wasn't Bledsoe that was their QB, who was one of the worst playoff QBs in NFL history.  

 

Brady made Belichick, not the other way around.  Belichick is a good defensive mind, a poor offensive one, a questionable manager of coaches, and a poor-to-fair talent evaluator.  He was a good but overrated head coach.  

 

 

Edited July 29, 2023 by PBF81

[Nextmanup]

4 hours ago, PBF81 said:

Belichick is a tale of two coaches.  

 

With Brady "he" was great.  But without Brady he wasn't even average, he's pretty much sucked.  One playoff win, and that against the Bledsoe-led Pats in one of the worst playoff games by any QB in the playoffs from a horrific career playoff QB.  

 

I hope he's around for another decade to continue to hammer the Pats into the ground while continuing to live off of the Brady years.  

 

 

Getting that team to the playoffs a few years ago (when we POUNDED them into dust) was nothing short of a miraculous coaching performance.  

 

I hope he is on the hot seat and in fact gets fired SOON.  We can then immediately hire him and start planning for multiple SB wins in the next 5 years.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[PBF81]

2 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Getting that team to the playoffs a few years ago (when we POUNDED them into dust) was nothing short of a miraculous coaching performance.  

 

How so?  
 

Here are the teams he beat, tell me which of those wins were part of that miraculous coaching performance?  

 

2 losses to the 4-13 Jets 

a win over the 4-13 Texans 

a win over the 5-12 Panthers 

a win over the 3-14 Jags 

a win over the 7-10 Falcons 

a win over the 8-9 Browns 

a win over the 9-8 Chargers   (who lost to those same Texans down the stretch costing them a playoff spot and also had the 30th ranked scoring D) 

a win over the 12-5 Titans   (who were w/o Henry and whose production had plummeted by 7 PPG w/o him)  

a win over us in a game in which all they did was run the ball while McD had not a single answer.  

 

Maybe that last one, the others, meh, good but far from impressive wins over the Titans and Chargers.  As to the rest, crap teams.  

 

So I cannot share your take on that.  It doesn't make sense to me.  But feel free to let me know which of those games were impressive.  Every team wins a game or two as underdogs every season.  

 

 

[iinii]

6 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

this was a hot take a week ago

Nice

Maybe he should go to Tampa as well. 

[Jauronimo]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

Disagree as you may, I think you need to look a little harder at the circumstances of that 11-5 season with Cassel.  He had the 2nd easiest schedule he's ever had there.  

 

Of their 11 wins that season, only one was against a team with 10+ wins, that was Miami, which had Pennington as their QB and Sparano as their coach.  Hardly people that are ever even going to get a sniff for the HoF.  That win was little more than a simple divisional upset.  

 

Otherwise, they beat teams that finished

2-14

2-14

4-12

5-11

7-9

7-9

7-9

8-8

9-7

9-7

and 11-5 (Miami led by Pennington at QB and Sparano).   

 

Combined record of teams beaten that season:  71-105  (.403)   Nothing to crow about, a lot to be thankful for from the schedule gods.  

 

They took two from us, big surprise as they owned us for 20 years, and split with the Jets and Miami, unable to win either game at home.  They finished tied with Miami and only two games ahead of the Jets, and failed to make the playoffs given that ease of schedule and luck.  They beat no one relevant all season other than Miami in a divisional game.  Miami was obliterated in the wild-card round so they couldn't have been too great wedged in between 1-15 and 7-9 seasons, and also with a similar easy schedule.  (Another clue)  Was Miami's roster better?   Not even close.  Miami had no one near what Moss or Welker were then.  Yet, they beat out the Pats for the division, which makes Sparano better than Belichick that season.  

 

For the entire duration of Brady's tenure, the AFCE never had a single great QB on any of the other three teams, essentially assuring him a division win every season.  

 

Either way, I have no idea how ten other seasons without brady with fair results at best, poor otherwise, can so easily be leapfrogged as to be insignificant in the greater discussion.  

 

I also think you need to take a closer look at which teams they beat over the past three seasons.  It's anything but an impressive list.  And regarding "other coaches not winning 6 games with his roster," the Steelers won 9 games last season to the Pats' 8, and their team was even worse arguably.  They were the first team I looked at.  In '21 the Saints won 9 games to the Pats' 10 with also arguably a worse roster.  And in '20, the Giants, also arguably with a worse team, led by a rookie Daniel Jones and HC Joe Judge, who's awful, won 6 games to the Pats' 7.    

 

Essentially what you're saying is that no other coaches could have beaten up a bunch of teams with losing records, which IMO is ridiculous.  You'll have to try a different angle.  

 

The bottom line is that Belichick's had ten seasons apart from Brady, even two with the same exact teams that played in Super Bowls in immediately adjoining seasons, going 1-1 in them, and put up mediocre results at best.  

 

Going 76-88 (.463) with one Wild-Card playoff round win in 10 other seasons is indefensibly poor.  Absolutely no one would rationally defend that apart form something else, namely his time with Brady at QB.  If McD had done that here he'd have been gone five seasons into that.   Any coach on any team for that matter.  The only reason why Belichick lasted in New England was because Mo Lewis did what Belichick was never going to do, knock Bledsoe out of the game.  Your point about "Brady gaining experience" may have made some sense if it wasn't Bledsoe that was their QB, who was one of the worst playoff QBs in NFL history.  

 

Brady made Belichick, not the other way around.  Belichick is a good defensive mind, a poor offensive one, a questionable manager of coaches, and a poor-to-fair talent evaluator.  He was a good but overrated head coach.  

 

 

Teams have easy schedules all the time and they don't go 11-5. They sure as f@#$ don't do it with Matt Cassel.  

 

Poor offensive mind?  Did anyone else watch that Pats offense evolve from the biggest screen package and game management in Brady's early years to the most potent air attack ever with Moss and Welker to the two tight end monster with Hernandez and Gronk to the quick passing attack and power run game?  Maybe that offensive success was all because of his brilliant offensive coordinators who had sooo much success everywhere else.  Belichick was consistently ahead of the curve and innovating on both sides of the ball for the greatest dynasty the league has ever seen.  No other head coach - QB combo has seen remotely the same level of success. 

 

He routinely outcoached the league in critical situations whether it be special teams, defense, or offense and all you have to say is "Brady".  

 

 

[FireChans]

8 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Teams have easy schedules all the time and they don't go 11-5. They sure as f@#$ don't do it with Matt Cassel.  

 

Poor offensive mind?  Did anyone else watch that Pats offense evolve from the biggest screen package and game management in Brady's early years to the most potent air attack ever with Moss and Welker to the two tight end monster with Hernandez and Gronk to the quick passing attack and power run game?  Maybe that offensive success was all because of his brilliant offensive coordinators who had sooo much success everywhere else.  Belichick was consistently ahead of the curve and innovating on both sides of the ball for the greatest dynasty the league has ever seen.  No other head coach - QB combo has seen remotely the same level of success. 

 

He routinely outcoached the league in critical situations whether it be special teams, defense, or offense and all you have to say is "Brady".  

 

 

I think you can sum up the BB tenure with one of the gutsiest calls in NFL lore.

 

Prime time game vs the Peyton Manning Broncos. Game goes to OT. Pats win the toss and pick THE WIND. End up winning with field position. 

[PBF81]

38 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Teams have easy schedules all the time and they don't go 11-5. They sure as f@#$ don't do it with Matt Cassel.  

 

Poor offensive mind?  Did anyone else watch that Pats offense evolve from the biggest screen package and game management in Brady's early years to the most potent air attack ever with Moss and Welker to the two tight end monster with Hernandez and Gronk to the quick passing attack and power run game?  Maybe that offensive success was all because of his brilliant offensive coordinators who had sooo much success everywhere else.  Belichick was consistently ahead of the curve and innovating on both sides of the ball for the greatest dynasty the league has ever seen.  No other head coach - QB combo has seen remotely the same level of success. 

 

He routinely outcoached the league in critical situations whether it be special teams, defense, or offense and all you have to say is "Brady".  

 

Going 76-88 (.463) with one Wild-Card playoff round win in 10 other seasons speaks for itself.   And teams record good records on weak schedules regularly.  Why do you think it factors into the tiebreaking procedures.  

 

His records in those ten seasons were: 

 

6-10

7-9

7-9

11-5  (Playoffs, 1-1) 

5-11 

5-13 (includes going 0-2 in 2001 before Lewis knocked Bledsoe out of the season)  

11-5

7-9

10-7  (Playoffs, 0-1)  

8-9 

 

That's 7 of 10 losing seasons and he didn't always have crap QBs.  He had Testeverde and got half out of him what Marchibroda got out of him in Baltimore right after that.  

 

And it's not as if Brady went to a perennially losing team, led it to 24-9 over two seasons at the ages of 43/44, and won a Super Bowl there or anything.  ... oh wait, my bad, he did.  

 

And "all you have to say is 'Brady'," LMAO, as if we're talking about Andy Dalton here or something.  

 

😂🤣😂

 

And if he's so great apart from Brady, why is he on the hotseat.  

 

 

Edited July 29, 2023 by PBF81

[Rocky Landing]

14 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

Smooth move by Mac forging ties with the owner. Smart.

I disagree. It's not going to save him. And between going behind his HC's back, his dirty play on the field, and his sideline tantrums, his reputation around the league must be utter crap. His skill's to date put him somewhere in the "decent backup" category, IMO. But being a backup in the league requires certain intangibles that are the polar opposite of the inclination to undermines one's HC.

[boater]

Belichick should just give it up and enjoy the few remaining years he has left. Yes, he's that old, he's 5 years away from male life expectancy of 77.

 

I read somewhere that Belichick keeps going because he wants to set some kind of record.

 

I think it was Don Shula's record of 347 victories.  Belichick has 321 victories. He's not even close. He's 26 victories short, it will take 3 seasons of .500 football to overtake... he'll never make it.

 

 

[John from Riverside]

I’ve been saying, since last year that Billy checks days are numbered
 

He’s a good coach he simply does not have the groceries

[Rocky Landing]

11 hours ago, Billznut said:

Bill Belichick will be out of New England when HE decides he’s ready to walk away. 

I would actually tend to agree with this, but with one significant caveat: "Bill Belichick will be out of New England when HE decides he’s ready to walk away," and while Robert Kraft is still alive.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

14 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

I disagree. It's not going to save him. And between going behind his HC's back, his dirty play on the field, and his sideline tantrums, his reputation around the league must be utter crap. His skill's to date put him somewhere in the "decent backup" category, IMO. But being a backup in the league requires certain intangibles that are the polar opposite of the inclination to undermines one's HC.

The only advantage to MJ🏈10 is he won't try to steal your wife if you're a coach, unlike Zach Wilson.

[BigAl2526]

Pass the popcorn.  This will be fun to watch.  I don't think NE has a ghost of a chance to reach the post season.  They have the look of a cellar dweller in the AFC East.