Is Gabe Davis a trade candidate?

[BADOLBILZ]

2 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Half of the players you listed are not outside WRs or even WRs at all. You don't even understand what Davis' role on the team is. Correct he is not Hill or Gronk or Kelce or Kittle. He is an outside WR. He is not the second option and he never will be. This offense you want him to be your 4th option after Diggs, slot, and Knox.  Davis is your chunk yardage guy not your high volume reception guy.  

 

"(Davis) is not the second option and he never will be"??

 

That's one of the most ignorant takes I've seen in a long time.

 

Davis was the second option in the Bills passing game just this last season........and it wasn't even a close contest.

 

Davis had almost 50% more targets(93) than the next two pass catchers(Knox and McKenzie with 65 each).

 

Also wrt to the "WR" designation........you'd have a point if TE's were graded on a curve as passing game targets........but they aren't.    "Passing game weapons"(PGW) isn't yet a distinction like some others.   That's like insisting Von Miller wasn't a DE prior to the term "edge" being used to lump in all DE/OLB whose primary role is to rush the passer.   It's semantics.   Travis Kelce is absolutely a WR1 level weapon.   He was 3rd in the league in receptions and 8th in receiving yards last season.   He puts up big numbers every year and is a top priority for defense's to stop.  

 

[Buffalo Junction]

26 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

You might think that.    But your opinion is not supported in recent history.   

 

Chiefs (Juju...25th in NFL in receiving yards and very high catch rate....and Kelce)  vs Eagles (AJ Brown and Devonta Smith)

Rams (Kupp and Beckham) vs Bengals (Chase and Higgins)

Bucs (Evans and Godwin)  vs Chiefs (Hill and Kelce)

Chiefs(Hill and Kelce)  vs Niners (Kittle and Samuel)

Patriots (Edelman and Gronk) vs (Woods and Cooks)

Eagles (exception) vs Patriots (Gronk and Cooks)

 

Basically you gotta' go back 6 seasons to find one team that was the exception to having two WR1 talents and still reaching the Super Bowl.   It's become a necessity.   So the plan for the Bills has to be to develop that other guy(Kincaid hopefully) or be that increasingly rare exception.

 

Because there isn't a world where Gabe Davis is a comp to any of those players listed.    Only an illogical homer would imply that he is.   And to your alternative scenario.......some of those teams ALSO had an abundance of other good receivers as well......like the 2018 Patriots who first option kinda' studs but had 5 players over 700 yards receiving.

 

We’re not seeing eye to eye… I wasn’t including TEs in the “two WR 1” category, nor do I view some of those players (JuJu for example) as WR 1s. Adding a top TE into the equation as the #1 pass catching option along with a WR1 is a viable alternative to having two WR1’s which I listed as an example because of Gronk, Kelsey, Kittle, etc. It’s more about having 3+ players that can exploit defenses and game plans or 2 guys who can dominate along with a good rushing attack. We saw what happened to this offense without that third player (prime Beasley), so fingers crossed on Kincaid. 
 

I also don’t believe Davis is a comp to anyone on there. He’s much more like MVS on that Chiefs team, or to stick with another former packer; Lazard…. Firmly entrenched as a secondary option due to limitations. As a result, Diggs & Davis won’t be enough unless a third receiving option steps up big time or the running attack improves dramatically and becomes dominant. 

[BADOLBILZ]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo Junction said:

We’re not seeing eye to eye… I wasn’t including TEs in the “two WR 1” category, nor do I view some of those players (JuJu for example) as WR 1s. Adding a top TE into the equation as the #1 pass catching option along with a WR1 is a viable alternative to having two WR1’s which I listed as an example because of Gronk, Kelsey, Kittle, etc. It’s more about having 3+ players that can exploit defenses and game plans or 2 guys who can dominate along with a good rushing attack. We saw what happened to this offense without that third player (prime Beasley), so fingers crossed on Kincaid. 
 

I also don’t believe Davis is a comp to anyone on there. He’s much more like MVS on that Chiefs team, or to stick with another former packer; Lazard…. Firmly entrenched as a secondary option due to limitations. As a result, Diggs & Davis won’t be enough unless a third receiving option steps up big time or the running attack improves dramatically and becomes dominant. 

 

 

Doesn't matter if it's a great TE or slot receiver or a great X or Y receiver.  They can all be a WR1(until a better designation is created).   The point stands......it's been quite a while since anyone has even reached a SB without having 2 WR1 level receiving threats.

 

And you can choose not believe that Juju is a WR1 option but his bulk and catch% numbers say he was firmly within the top 32 receiving threats in the NFL last year.  Maybe even top 75% of first receiving options, statistically.   Now did the Chiefs get lucky that he stayed so healthy?   Sure.  But we aren't talking about a creation of Patrick Mahomes,  he was a 25 year old guy who has had a 110 catch 1400 yard season in his history.  

[Dopey]

3 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

You said he's put up 50 catches, 900 yards, and 8 touchdowns.  He's never done that in his career.

I did not say that. Buffalo_Stampede wrote  “Davis is a WR2. He blocks and puts up 50-60catches 900 yards and 8 TDs. That’s a WR2.”

GoBills808B for wrote that Gabe has literally never done ANY of these things. To which I called BS. (Gabe blocks). 
Back to that reading comprehension thing you tried to be a smart butt about. Guess you weren’t drunk the first time you replied to me. You just have that reading comprehension issue you tried to pin on me. The word dyslexia comes to mind. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, Aussie Joe said:

I just want him to catch the freaking ball when it comes his way…

Could have put my foot through the TV last seconds of that Jets loss

 

Get no argument from me on that one. And it makes no sense because he has made some really difficult catches in his first three years.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

"(Davis) is not the second option and he never will be"??

 

That's one of the most ignorant takes I've seen in a long time.

 

Davis was the second option in the Bills passing game just this last season........and it wasn't even a close contest.

 

Davis had almost 50% more targets(93) than the next two pass catchers(Knox and McKenzie with 65 each).

 

Also wrt to the "WR" designation........you'd have a point if TE's were graded on a curve as passing game targets........but they aren't.    "Passing game weapons"(PGW) isn't yet a distinction like some others.   That's like insisting Von Miller wasn't a DE prior to the term "edge" being used to lump in all DE/OLB whose primary role is to rush the passer.   It's semantics.   Travis Kelce is absolutely a WR1 level weapon.   He was 3rd in the league in receptions and 8th in receiving yards last season.   He puts up big numbers every year and is a top priority for defense's to stop.  

 

He wasn't #2 when Beasley was playing slot. 

He got more chances last year becuase the slot WR situation was a disaster 

In this offense the slot WR should be getting more targets. And as you see on other teams, the TE has to be a bigger part of this offense. 

This year Davis targets will go down but his YPC and TDs will be the same. 

 

 

[DCofNC]

10 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

I don't entirely agree that Davis isn't "a number 2 WR at all".  I think Davis isn't a number 2 only when compared with the #2 on teams that have 2 #1 WR - Bengals, Eagles, Miami. 

 

But with the bolded part, I agree completely.

Ok, we can agree on this, he’s not the #2 you want.  I think he’s a pretty good #3, but a below average #2.  He has flashes / spurts of great play, which make his numbers look like a #2 at the end of the year.  End of the day, the position needs to be upgraded.

[Dan in Owego]

You know i have been trying to find a comp for Gabe, i think Chris Burkett, am i far off?

[NoSaint]

21 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

I don't think we trade him, but recent events make me wonder. By all reports sounds like Sherfield and Harty are flashing in camp. With Kincaid and Knox we're going to run more 12 personnel than at any point during the Allen era, making WRs more expendable.

 

And then we sign a recent 2nd round WR in Andy Isabella. I realize he's been a bust thus far, but why would Beane bother bringing him in if he thought our WR corps was set?

 

And that's where the guesswork comes into play...

 

I'm sure most view it as Shakir insurance based on his reportedly poor start to camp. I think that'd be financially kinda silly considering Shakir showed some potential in actual NFL games and he's one of only 2 or 3 (if Shorter makes the team) WRs still under contract after 2023.

 

Gabe Davis will get a contract next season likely (as of this moment at least) in the $10-$15 million range, and I think that's actually below (maybe well below) what he'll actually get. We all know Buffalo’s CAP situation and what we're already gonna be paying Diggs since there's no out on his contract for 3 or 4 years. 

 

$40+ million (conservatively) a year to 2 WRs?

 

And then there's this from the first few TC practices from Joe B's day 3 report at The Athletic:

 

Davis targeted minimally the last two practices

Following the Bills’ second day of practice, starting receiver Gabe Davis was quite candid about some of his physical and mental struggles during the 2022 season, stemming from an early-year high ankle sprain that wound up defining his output. He didn’t take the leap many were hoping for, but he remains very well thought of throughout the building. There’s no doubt Davis looks a lot smoother and more explosive on his routes than from when he was injured, but it hasn’t translated to much production through the early portion of camp. Of those 37 Allen pass attempts over the last two practices, Davis was only targeted in team drills twice. Both targets occurred on Friday, and to Davis’ credit, he brought in both for a shorter reception. Over the same span, Diggs (10), Trent Sherfield (6), Knox (5) and Kincaid (3) were all targeted more often by Allen. It could just be the start of camp and a feeling out process with Allen and Davis, or perhaps it’s a continuation of the lower target share Davis accrued during 2022. Either way, all eyes will be on the now-healthy Davis in a contract year.

 

I know this... we already have a lot of draft capital next year and Beane loves trading up. What do you think Gabe fetches? A 3rd? A 4th? I think we could at least get a 4th for him, which is where he was drafted. 

 

Then Big Baller Beane uses all those draft picks to get our next #1 in waiting in next year's draft...

 

Marvin Harrison Jr. anyone????

hate this take for a variety of reasons. 
 

terrible return on the asset in your suggestion

 

the fact that you think harty flashing in non contact is meaningful

 

just bad all around

 

 

[NoSaint]

2 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

He wasn't #2 when Beasley was playing slot. 

He got more chances last year becuase the slot WR situation was a disaster 

In this offense the slot WR should be getting more targets. And as you see on other teams, the TE has to be a bigger part of this offense. 

This year Davis targets will go down but his YPC and TDs will be the same. 

 

 

honestly with a healthy Davis and healthy Josh I would find it hard to believe his targets drop in a substantial way this year

[NoSaint]

7 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Epically bad thread. Congrats 

throwing in the Isabella signing makes him look particularly oblivious to reality

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

He wasn't #2 when Beasley was playing slot. 

He got more chances last year becuase the slot WR situation was a disaster 

In this offense the slot WR should be getting more targets. And as you see on other teams, the TE has to be a bigger part of this offense. 

This year Davis targets will go down but his YPC and TDs will be the same. 

 

 

 

Well you were clearly dead wrong(and a d!ck about it) that Davis was never the Bills second option.  

 

So own it.

 

I guess you missed 2022.........which started with Gabriel Davis having a huge playoff game and the Bills organization deciding that he was then ready to become their WR2 without splitting snaps with an Emmanuel Sanders or John Brown like in 2020-2021.    I mean, you can't be clueless enough to think that they expected Lil' Dummy McKenzie or $2M flyer signing Jamison Crowder to be their second option, right?    

 

They also had a plan to run a lot more 12 personnel coming into camp in 2022........which face planted even harder than the Dummy/Crowder combo when OJ Howard proved to be washed.   They thought they were going to get 100-130 targets out of Gabe and weren't going to need a high volume slot receiver.  

 

And sure the slot receiver had been their second most targeted position in 2021 but it wasn't by a huge 40%-50% disparity like from Davis to Knox/McKenzie in 2022.    Davis and Emmanuel Sanders mostly split 133 targets in 2021(with some of those targets being Sanders in the slot).   Beasley as the primary slot totaled 112 targets.   

[Doc Brown]

3 hours ago, Dopey said:

I did not say that. Buffalo_Stampede wrote  “Davis is a WR2. He blocks and puts up 50-60catches 900 yards and 8 TDs. That’s a WR2.”

GoBills808B for wrote that Gabe has literally never done ANY of these things. To which I called BS. (Gabe blocks). 
Back to that reading comprehension thing you tried to be a smart butt about. Guess you weren’t drunk the first time you replied to me. You just have that reading comprehension issue you tried to pin on me. The word dyslexia comes to mind. 

My mistake.  One of the four things you claimed was correct.  He is capable of blocking.

[transplantbillsfan]

6 hours ago, NoSaint said:

hate this take for a variety of reasons. 
 

terrible return on the asset in your suggestion

 

the fact that you think harty flashing in non contact is meaningful

 

just bad all around

 

 

 

Harty wasn't a flier for Beane. He's guaranteed,making this team as a contributing WR and we didn't give him a $10m contract to be a returner.

[transplantbillsfan]

10 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea. This is a dumb ass take. Really bad.

 

6 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Epically bad thread. Congrats 

 

You seem like a sad, angry person.

 

Maybe you're resentful of something in your life, but to make these 2 completely empty, meaningless posts on the same page of the same thread within just a few hours of each other really isn't a good look.

 

 

 

 

 

Now... it's Saturday night. If you're drunk, it's understandable 

[Chandler#81]

The Bills are looked at cynically as a team with weak WRs sans Diggs. If EVER there’s a time for Gabe to step up and take the damn bull by the horns, it’s NOW!

[Buffalo_Stampede]

18 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah the problem with @Buffalo_Stampede quote is that Gabe Davis is clearly not the "perfect" WR2.   He's certainly not the ideal and at this point everyone should know that.  I can only assume he was just careless with his words because he takes offense to the deserved criticism.

 

There is nothing "perfect" about being second in the league in total drops and 185th in catch % when you are getting close to 100 targets.   Too much inefficiency.   That inconsistency from Davis.........combined with that of lesser ball droppers like McKenzie/Shakir/Knox playing one slot ahead of where they should in the pecking order........helped allow teams to roll extra attention to Diggs in the second half of last season,  which made the offense look chaotic at times.   Far from ideal.

 

The Bills haven't really had a top 10 WR2 since early in the 2020 season before John Brown got hurt.   The Bills passing game looked considerably different then.   Far too much off-script offense in the mix now.  Even just the threat of a screen to the otherwise-bomb-threat Smoke(which produced a handful of huge, game changing plays) had an impact that the offense has lacked ever since.   An ideal WR2 is either great at one thing or able to beat you in numerous ways and be both high production and efficient.  Like a WR1.   This is the way the league is now and there has been an influx of WR talent in the last 5 years like we've never seen before so it's not far fetched to have 2 WR1's.   

 

 

 

For me the perfect compliment to a WR1 is someone that stretches the field and scores TDs. WR2’s tend to have flaws. When I say WR2 I’m speaking more about outside WR. Technically a WR2 can be a TE or slot WR also if we’re talking target shares. So sometimes I get those mixed up. We’re not use to saying X Y Z F and so on.

 

Maybe we’re in an era where teams have multiple WR1’s. Multiple $20 million dollar receivers. I think it’s possible. Especially since the league is phasing out high paid RBs.

Kincaid could be 2nd in targets when he hits his prime. Wouldn’t he be considered WR2 in that case? Or are we strictly talking X and Z WR’s? Diggs can play every WR position. I want a WR opposite him being a field stretcher. Gabe Davis can do that. So that’s why I call him the perfect WR opposite Diggs. I don’t know if he’ll always be 2nd on the team in targets. He could easily be 3rd as early as this season depending on Kincaid.

 

 

 

[NoSaint]

5 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Harty wasn't a flier for Beane. He's guaranteed,making this team as a contributing WR and we didn't give him a $10m contract to be a returner.

I didn’t begin to imply he’s a flyer but at $5m per year he’s not paid as a WR2 either. He’s a relatively cheap and explosive question mark that could make some impact plays. He’s not a WR2.
 

you’re digging the hole deeper with comments like this

Edited July 30, 2023 by NoSaint

[hondo in seattle]

As others have pointed out, some of the very best offenses have two elite receiving threats.  Back in the Bills Super Bowl era, we did as well.  Not now.  

 

Today, we have a solid group of wideouts but only one is a star.  Dorsey has enough horsepower to make this go but, ideally, there'd be a 1B in the mix and there isn't.  Unless Gabe's ankle was truly a significant problem last year and he reaches new heights this season.  And since that's our only affordable hope for a 1B, that's what we gotta run with this year.  My fingers are crossed.  

 

But I'm going to commit heresy here:  Maybe Von Miller was a mistake.  I love the man, but we dropped a lot of loose change for an aging DE.  You have to consider the opportunity cost.  Maybe if we hadn't signed Von, we'd have been able to sign a 1B WR and build up our offensive line.  

[eball]

Nice article on Gabe in the Buff News this morning.  Guys like @ScottLaw will scoff but there are reasons why Davis was not stellar last year, and I think anyone who sleeps on him this year is in for a surprise.