Has Miami really closed the gap?

[SoTier]

On 7/29/2023 at 5:31 PM, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

One thing working for Miami is they do have the only offensive minded head coach in the AFC East.

 

Who I would also say is the best offensive coordinator in the AFC east.

 

And with Vic Fangio, on defense that would put them as having the best two coordinators in the division.

 

But what about Bellichick… historically he’s great, but he’s not what he was five seasons ago.  And McDermott?  Let’s see how long it takes for him to shake the rust off.

 

On 7/29/2023 at 6:44 PM, Ya Digg? said:

I don’t get the love for Fangio-honestly what has he done that makes him this amazing def. Coordinator? One that automatically makes him the top guy in the division. Admittedly I had to look up the guy’s name, but the Jets guy has been there for a couple of years and they do (unfortunately have a great defense) and you are just ranking Fangio above McDermott and Belichik. I’m not saying you’re wrong,  but I don’t understand what Fangio has done that makes him this amazing coordinator 

 

I don't get it either.   Fangio has had a long career as a defensive coordinator and produced some outstanding defenses, but he's also had average and below average defenses which suggests that he's not a super hero who can turn JAGs into superstars when his defense lacks talent or has been decimated by injury.  

 

Belichick, McDermott and Saleh were all outstanding defensive coordinators prior to becoming successful HCs, so they're not exactly trash.   More importantly, they've had several years to build their defensive teams so that their personnel fit their defensive systems whereas Fangio is going to have a defense that's largely been built by others, some or many of which may not be a good fit with what he wants to do.  He also runs a very complicated defense that may take a while to become effective.

 

I have no doubt that Fangio can improve the Miami defense this season, but it was pretty poor last year.   There's no way in hell, though, that Fangio's a better defensive coach than Belichick.   It's not Belichick's coaching that's fallen off in NE, it's the talent level.  

Edited July 31, 2023 by SoTier

[Gregg]

Zach will play this Thursday night.

 

 

Paul Andrew Esden Jr on Twitter: "#Jets HC Robert Saleh said Zach Wilson WILL PLAY in the Hall of Fame game vs the #Browns on Thursday! #TakeFlight #JetsCamp" / X

[Matt_In_NH]

1 hour ago, Gregg said:

Zach will play this Thursday night.

 

 

Paul Andrew Esden Jr on Twitter: "#Jets HC Robert Saleh said Zach Wilson WILL PLAY in the Hall of Fame game vs the #Browns on Thursday! #TakeFlight #JetsCamp" / X

Wow there is a game this Thursday.

[CaliBills]

2 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

Wow there is a game this Thursday.

 

haha I thought the same thing when I saw it.  
 

Told the wife, sooo football starts this thursday!!! with a Wooooooo at the end.  

 

Of course her reply was "Already?!?!" lol.  Hell yeah

[CSBill]

1 hour ago, Gregg said:

Zach will play this Thursday night.

 

 

Paul Andrew Esden Jr on Twitter: "#Jets HC Robert Saleh said Zach Wilson WILL PLAY in the Hall of Fame game vs the #Browns on Thursday! #TakeFlight #JetsCamp" / X

I guess A-Rod is not as good as advertised?

[Matt_In_NH]

16 minutes ago, CaliBills said:

 

haha I thought the same thing when I saw it.  
 

Told the wife, sooo football starts this thursday!!! with a Wooooooo at the end.  

 

Of course her reply was "Already?!?!" lol.  Hell yeah

We have that same conversation in my house every year!!!!!!  haha

[Gregg]

44 minutes ago, CSBill said:

I guess A-Rod is not as good as advertised?

 

I would be shocked if he plays in the preseason at all. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

I believe this sums up the last 7 pages of debate fairly well.

 

 

[Beck Water]

On 7/31/2023 at 11:03 AM, Matt_In_NH said:

Wow there is a game this Thursday.

 

I believe those 2 teams are allowed to start training camp a week earlier because of it

[Augie]

9 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I believe those 2 teams are allowed to start training camp a week earlier because of it

 

I wonder if that is more or less popular than Hard Knocks with vets. Yay…..an extra week of camp……lucky us.  

[Sharky7337]

Wolves dont concern themselves with the opinions of sheep.

[Fleezoid]

On 7/31/2023 at 9:39 AM, ColoradoBills said:

Week 1 has the Dolphins going on the road to play the Chargers.  It will tell me a lot about both of those teams.

If I still bet, I would have my money on the Chargers.

 

 

[Beck Water]

On 7/31/2023 at 8:46 AM, SoTier said:

I don't get it either.   Fangio has had a long career as a defensive coordinator and produced some outstanding defenses, but he's also had average and below average defenses which suggests that he's not a super hero who can turn JAGs into superstars when his defense lacks talent or has been decimated by injury.  

 

Belichick, McDermott and Saleh were all outstanding defensive coordinators prior to becoming successful HCs, so they're not exactly trash.   More importantly, they've had several years to build their defensive teams so that their personnel fit their defensive systems whereas Fangio is going to have a defense that's largely been built by others, some or many of which may not be a good fit with what he wants to do.  He also runs a very complicated defense that may take a while to become effective.

 

I have no doubt that Fangio can improve the Miami defense this season, but it was pretty poor last year.   There's no way in hell, though, that Fangio's a better defensive coach than Belichick.   It's not Belichick's coaching that's fallen off in NE, it's the talent level.  

 

 

 

(click to make it readable)

So to your point.....Fangio's big claim to DC fame, I think, are the SF defenses from his stint with the 9'ers 2011-2014.  He had the #32 ranked D his previous stint as DC, 2005 in Houston.  And SF had some pretty serious D talent in those days, especially at LB and Safety.  The 2018 Bears (most recent claim) had a LB corps of Mack, Trevethan, Roquan Smith and Leonard Floyd, along with Akiem Hicks at DE and a couple of very talented DB.

 

I personally thought the Miami D over-achieved under Flores/Josh Boyer.  And they've certainly tried to add talent with Jalen Ramsey and Terron Armstead.  But it's notable they have been running a 4-3 D and Vic Fangio's notable defenses have all used a 3-4 alignment.   The Bills certainly saw a drop in quality when a #4  4-3 D was taken over by a DC whose bread and butter was a 3-4 alignment, and we didn't have the personnel to slot neatly into his wants.

So I don't think it's a sure bet that Fangio's D will be the best in the AFC E this year.  As for putting him as the best defensive coordinator in the AFCE, I guess that might be true considering his competition as actual DC are no one (Bills), Jeff Ulbrich (Jets, 3 years as DC), and no one (NWE, with Steve Belichick calling the D)

 

By the way, Spotrac (FWIW) says "Ramsey will undergo knee surgery to repair a torn meniscus and is expected to remain out until at least December of the 2023-2024 season."

Edited August 2, 2023 by Beck Water

[Captain Hindsight]

On 7/30/2023 at 11:56 PM, Big Blitz said:

Because half of these clowns are there for the beach, weather, tax free income, and a coach that doesn’t really scream “I can’t take a play or 10 off because I don’t want to let him down.”

 

 

Kansas City isn't stupid

[Beck Water]

On 7/29/2023 at 2:08 PM, billsbackto81 said:

Rookie coach that backed into the playoffs is better? I kinda understand considering how McD has handled the last 2 postseasons, but I feel it's too soon to debate.

 

Almost lost is still a loss and if you look at the stats of that game it was more of what Buffalo did wrong instead of what Miami did right.

 

Personally I'm more worried about the Jets.  Their D has proven legit and gave us fits. Bills always put up monster numbers against Miami. 

 

Same.  Jets D is legit.   In a recent interview, Dawkins called out Cowherd when he talked as though he made the assumption the Bills would just be expected to beat the Jets.  He praised their defense and said they give us all we can handle. 

 

What the Jets lacked, was a QB - and now they have one.

[eball]

On 7/31/2023 at 9:46 AM, SoTier said:

 

 

I don't get it either.   Fangio has had a long career as a defensive coordinator and produced some outstanding defenses, but he's also had average and below average defenses which suggests that he's not a super hero who can turn JAGs into superstars when his defense lacks talent or has been decimated by injury.  

 

Belichick, McDermott and Saleh were all outstanding defensive coordinators prior to becoming successful HCs, so they're not exactly trash.   More importantly, they've had several years to build their defensive teams so that their personnel fit their defensive systems whereas Fangio is going to have a defense that's largely been built by others, some or many of which may not be a good fit with what he wants to do.  He also runs a very complicated defense that may take a while to become effective.

 

I have no doubt that Fangio can improve the Miami defense this season, but it was pretty poor last year.   There's no way in hell, though, that Fangio's a better defensive coach than Belichick.   It's not Belichick's coaching that's fallen off in NE, it's the talent level.  

Saleh is a successful HC? I think the jury is still out on that one…

 

[SoTier]

2 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Same.  Jets D is legit.   In a recent interview, Dawkins called out Cowherd when he talked as though he made the assumption the Bills would just be expected to beat the Jets.  He praised their defense and said they give us all we can handle. 

 

What the Jets lacked, was a QB - and now they have one.

 

I agree.  The Jets have more of the right pieces to be a real threat than the Fish.  Rodgers is easily better than Tua.  I think their WR corps are about equivalent.  The Jets defense is significantly better.  I think that Saleh has proven himself a competent HC at worst, but the jury is still out on McDaniel.

[Nextmanup]

On 7/31/2023 at 12:07 PM, CaliBills said:

 

haha I thought the same thing when I saw it.  
 

Told the wife, sooo football starts this thursday!!! with a Wooooooo at the end.  

 

Of course her reply was "Already?!?!" lol.  Hell yeah

They should ALL be getting ready to play their first and ONLY pre-season game this week....followed by getting into the regular season in mid-August.  It would help on the back end, so that the biggest and most important games of the year are not played in unplayable arctic tundra type conditions...which always struck me as ridiculous.

 

 

[PatsFanNH]

On 7/28/2023 at 8:05 PM, billsbackto81 said:

Do the numbers lie? Thoughts?

 

Personally I'm growing tired of how their fans and the media keep hyping this team. Yes, they have a decent team on paper but what have they proven? Constantly being mentioned in the same breath as KC, Cincinnati and Buffalo. Now I do realize the final score is all that matters. But is it really that close when you look at the numbers?

 

Week 3/ Miami 21 Bills 19

 

Total yards.  Miami 212 Bills 497

Passing.       Miami 171 Bills 382

Rushing.       Miami  41 Bills 115

Avg play.      Miami 5.  Bills 6

3rd Downs.  Miami  37% Bills 61%

TOP.             Miami  19:20 Bills 40:40

 

Wildcard Game/ Bills 34 Miami 31

 

Total yards.     Miami 231 Bills 423

Passing.           Miami 189 Bills 316

Rushing.             Miami 42   Bills  107

Avg play.            Miami  3     Bills 6

3rd Downs.      Miami 25%  Bills 56%

TOP                  Miami 27:47 Bills 32:13

 

I'll spare you the details of all the injuries and misfortunes that fell upon our team last year.

 

Buffalo has dominated this team more than any other. Statistically its not even close! I just don't get the hype.

 

 

 

 

Miami goes as far as Tua takes them. You pull all these stats and thump your chest about beating them stats wise.. meanwhile on the scoreboard the games were very close both under 7 points. 
 

like the Bills had twice the number of yards than Miami in week 3 but scored only 19 points and lost… ok it was disgustingly hot.. but 19 points with over 400 yards… that’s hard to do. 
 

lmao your going bring up the wildcard game where they had what a 3rd string QB playing? And yet the Bills at home barely bet them by 3 points? 
 

point is they are a very talented team and you could have lost to them in the playoffs, which would have been embarrassing. 

[Beck Water]

On 7/29/2023 at 8:25 PM, Billl said:

The Bengals and Chiefs have been to the last 4 Super Bowls and have knocked the Bills out of the playoffs for 3 straight seasons.  That must have been one hell of a coin flip.

 

You said: " So my question is, if Miami hasn’t shown that they belong in a conversation with Buffalo, what has Buffalo done to belong in a conversation with Kansas City?" 

 

The answer is, beaten you at home 38-20 and 24-20 in the last 2 regular season games, and taken the game to 13 seconds and a coin flip in the 2021 AFC Division round.

You didn't ask about the Bengals, Championships won, etc.

 

If you don't like that answer, fine, but "we're 2x Superbowl Champions and You're Not, Nah Nah" doesn't seem like much of a response, especially since in fact, the Bengals pretty much embarrassed the Chiefs in the 2021 AFC championship - it wasn't as close as the final score - supporting the idea that the Bills gave the Chiefs everything they could handle and depleted them the prior game.  Then there's that 31-9 loss to Tampa in the 2020 Superbowl, wanna brag on that?

Edited August 2, 2023 by Beck Water