Bills working out FA receiver Andy Isabella tomorrow UPDATE: SIGNED

[BobbyC81]

15 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Exactly. 

 

Starting out, the patience a team has for a player who is struggling, roughly tracks with where he was drafted, and whether he was drafted by the current staff or not.  So 3rd round pick Dawson Knox gets more patience when he looks like "dropsome" than 5th round pick Khalil Shakir.  Then, a player earns patience by what he's contributed to the team.  Gabe Davis has had 1 game >200 yds, 5 games over 100 yds, and something like 15 games over 70 yds (ave 70 ypg is what the top-15 WR collect).  That's out of 54 games played.  So that's pushing towards 30% of his games, contribute yardage at the level of a top WR.  That earns him extra patience for a 4th rounder.

 

Last season, people on this board loved to prop Shakir up because they were frustrated with the guy playing ahead of him - Isaiah McKenzie.  And he did show flashes.

 

But it's also true Shakir dropped 2 of his 20 targets last season - scored drops, meaning someone said "yeah, a decent receiver oughtta haul that one in"

There were times when he ran the wrong route.  There were times against zone when he threw the mail flag up oblivious to where he was relative to defenders who weren't actually chasing him.

 

Like @BuffaloBillyG said, he's gonna have to earn it, and he's got competition.

I would think a 2nd round WR would get a lot of reps in his 1st Training Camp to see what he can do.  If he doesn’t show much, he probably drops down in the pecking order if another WR is looking better than him.
 

 In his 3 years with Arizona, I would expect the coaching staff wanted to see significant improvement at the start of each successive training camp.  If he didn’t show much, he probably got less reps than he did the prior year.  As time goes by, the patience you mentioned decreases.

 

After 3 years, the Arizona coaches may have determined that, not only isn’t he meeting the expectations of a 2nd round pick, he’s not good enough to keep on the roster.  
 

A change of scenery should set the clocks back for expectations and patience but he really needs to stand out to be more than just training camp fodder.

[Nextmanup]

LOL; they signed him.

[AuntieEm]

6 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

LOL; they signed him.

 

  Hey while the games themselves in preseason aren't worth anything but practice they can still get some wear and tear on players so if nothing else you let Isabella take some of the knicks and bruises from are top dogs  I mean we won't play are top guys in last preseason game but still want to get in the reps on plays they want to practice and feedback on how well they execute them.  

Edited July 29, 2023 by AuntieEm

[John from Riverside]

5 minutes ago, AuntieEm said:

 

  Hey while the games themselves in preseason aren't worth anything but practice they can still get some wear and tear on players so if nothing else you let Isabella take some of the knicks and bruises from are top dogs  I mean we won't play are top guys in last preseason game but still want to get in the reps on plays they want to practice and feedback on how well they execute them.  

Beane likes to do a lot of tinkering with the end of the roster. We see this every year.

[AuntieEm]

5 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Beane likes to do a lot of tinkering with the end of the roster. We see this every year.

 

  And I like that he does bring in some that maybe work out well.  I know the past speedster experiments all came to naught but what qb did they have not like they could deliver the ball like Josh can.

[boyst]

1 hour ago, Don Otreply said:

In this “case” Scott, bless his heart, hasn’t had a positive thing to say about this team in likely a decade plus, so the concept of merit went out the window a while ago, jmo. 

...but on this point, is he wrong? No.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

This is the type of signing that will make preseason game 3 fun. 
 

Maybe he latches on, but this is basically Tavon Austin, Corey Coleman, etc 

[Coach Tuesday]

This is a non-event.

[CNYfan]

I think he is in a roster battle for the Practice Squad?   

[RyanC883]

this is a great signing, IMO.  Totally low risk, good PS player at the worst, and is someone that CB’s can practice against that has top end speed. 

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

We were top-five in offense last year

One word. ALLEN. He is that good. John, I think you could be the coach and have similar results. 

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

I couldn't disagree with you both more. Shakir is safe. I don't think he's "the second coming of Jerry Rice". But he played well being brought along slowly as a Rookie and has been talked up by Beane and McDermott post season as in line to get more reps going into Year 2. The Drafting of Kincaid will surely mean he's going to being splitting reps in the Slot. But he isn't going anywhere barring injury.

 

At the end of the day, Isabella is only making it if we decide to keep 7 WR's or someone gets injured. Diggs, Davis, Harty, Shakir, Sherfield, and Shorter are pretty much set in stone - save for an injury.

 

So, pro and con.

 

Pro: Listening to Cover1's recap of Day 3, they make a point that there seems to be a clearly defined top 5 that are rotating and taking reps with the top offense: Diggs, Davis, Shakir, Sherfield and Harty.  And, the Bills normally don't give up on their draft picks too early or easily.

 

Con: That said - there's also a pack of receivers with a couple looking very good behind them.  We presumably want to keep Shorter unless he looks horrid, since we just drafted him in the 5th round this year.  Add Andy Isabella.  In 2021, the Bills kept more WR by keeping fewer TE.  That can't happen this year.  If we're going to rely on Kincaid and craft a major offensive role around 12 sets, we need depth at TE behind him.

 

I think if Shakir fails to define a role for himself as a KR/PR and keeps dropping balls, the door is open.

 

 

13 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

this is a great signing, IMO.  Totally low risk, good PS player at the worst, and is someone that CB’s can practice against that has top end speed. 

 

That's a very valid point I hadn't thought of.  One of McKenzie's roles (and RayRay before him) was PS player helping the D get ready for speedy players.  If they're counting on Harty to have a major offensive and even ST role, they won't want him doing that.

Edited July 29, 2023 by Beck Water

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

Exactly. 

 

Starting out, the patience a team has for a player who is struggling, roughly tracks with where he was drafted, and whether he was drafted by the current staff or not.  So 3rd round pick Dawson Knox gets more patience when he looks like "dropsome" than 5th round pick Khalil Shakir.  Then, a player earns patience by what he's contributed to the team.  Gabe Davis has had 1 game >200 yds, 5 games over 100 yds, and something like 15 games over 70 yds (ave 70 ypg is what the top-15 WR collect).  That's out of 54 games played.  So that's pushing towards 30% of his games, contribute yardage at the level of a top WR.  That earns him extra patience for a 4th rounder.

 

Last season, people on this board loved to prop Shakir up because they were frustrated with the guy playing ahead of him - Isaiah McKenzie.  And he did show flashes.

 

But it's also true Shakir dropped 2 of his 20 targets last season - scored drops, meaning someone said "yeah, a decent receiver oughtta haul that one in"

There were times when he ran the wrong route.  There were times against zone when he threw the mail flag up oblivious to where he was relative to defenders who weren't actually chasing him.

 

Like @BuffaloBillyG said, he's gonna have to earn it, and he's got competition.

Shakir also was a solid and reliable punt returner, and he might end up being our punt returner this year.  To field punts is one of the most difficult tasks in NFL.  So for Shakir to be reliable last year, and coaches have faith with Shakir.  Last I saw, Shakir was top of PR 

[BADOLBILZ]

33 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

This is the type of signing that will make preseason game 3 fun. 
 

Maybe he latches on, but this is basically Tavon Austin, Corey Coleman, etc 

 

 

Corey Coleman was different because Beane traded for him in camp and then cut him 2 weeks later and ate $3M dead cap after he never played an actual down for the Bills.    Coleman set the "new" USFL receiving yardage record this spring.........if Isabella don't work out........

 

  https://heavy.com/sports/buffalo-bills/bills-receiver-corey-coleman-all-usfl-team/

[newcam2012]

2 hours ago, Rc2catch said:

I guess Nkeal Harry is getting a workout too?? Happy they let Isabella try to compete for a spot 

Another great addition to the Bills WR core. Not sure who is going to be odd man out. 

[Warriorspikes51]

Guy reminds me of Wayne Chrebet.

 

it’s possible he finds a role here. Has shown playmaking skills and has good speed

 

Diggs

Davis

Sherfield 

Harty

Shakir

Isabella

Shorter

[Warcodered]

3 hours ago, Rc2catch said:

I guess Nkeal Harry is getting a workout too?? Happy they let Isabella try to compete for a spot 

 

[boyst]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

This is a non-event.

Diggs is unhappy.

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

Shakir also was a solid and reliable punt returner, and he might end up being our punt returner this year.  To field punts is one of the most difficult tasks in NFL.  So for Shakir to be reliable last year, and coaches have faith with Shakir.  Last I saw, Shakir was top of PR 

 

Dude.  Shakir returned 3 (three) punts last year.  3 punts, for 23 yards total. 

 

Pittsburgh: let one bounce.  Wound up pinning the Bills on the Pittsburgh 2.  1 FC

KC: 2 PR, 6 yds  bobbled one, pinned the Bills on the KC 4.  1 FC

GB: 1 PR for 17 yds (nice).  1 FC. 

And then the Bills traded for Nyheim Hines 2 days later, on November 1st.  He immediately took over PR and KR duties.

 

You may not connect the dots between Shakir returning punts in 3 games then the Bills trading for a player who immediately took over KR/PR....

But do you really want to claim that handling 7 punts in 3 games make a player "a solid and reliable punt returner last year" and show "coaches have faith with Shakir"?  Especially when they go out and trade for a player who then takes over?

 

I actually hate to write this because I like Shakir and want him to succeed.  But c'mon people - let him be what he's actually shown to date.  Don't puff him up into something he isn't.

 

I don't think after 3 days we know who is "on top of PR".  We know that at least 3 guys are returning kicks and punts: Harty, Evans, and Shakir (in no particular order)

Edited July 29, 2023 by Beck Water

[JoPoy88]

6 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Dude.  Shakir returned 3 (three) punts last year.  3 punts, for 23 yards total. 

 

Pittsburgh: let one bounce.  Wound up pinning the Bills on the Pittsburgh 2.  1 FC

KC: 2 PR, 6 yds  bobbled one, pinned the Bills on the KC 4.  1 FC

GB: 1 PR for 17 yds (nice).  1 FC. 

And then the Bills traded for Nyheim Hines 2 days later, on November 1st.  He immediately took over PR and KR duties.

 

You may not connect the dots between Shakir returning punts in 3 games then the Bills trading for a player who immediately took over KR/PR....

But do you really want to claim that handling 7 punts in 3 games make a player "a solid and reliable punt returner last year" and show "coaches have faith with Shakir"?  Especially when they go out and trade for a player who then takes over?

 

I actually hate to write this because I like Shakir and want him to succeed.  But c'mon people - let him be what he's actually shown to date.  Don't puff him up into something he isn't.

 

I don't think after 3 days we know who is "on top of PR".  We know that at least 3 guys are returning kicks and punts: Harty, Evans, and Shakir (in no particular order)

I applaud you for explaining this at least a dozen times now to people saying the same dumb things about punt returns.

 

”He ran a 3.9 40.”

”He’s returned 9 punts over 2 years and 5 didn’t go well.”

”He’s FAST! And short. Definitely a punt returner put him in immediately.”

 

”….okay”