Training camp 7/27 9:45 AM

[BananaB]

56 minutes ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

Flip side of that coin is I don’t want my coach playing a guy based on where he was drafted. If our top 3 CBs at camp end up Ja’Marcus Ingram, Cameron Dantzler, and Alex Austin, then that’s who I want on the field. Not just names for sake of names. 

 Dane sucked last year, Elam outplayed him. This is your coach giving the veteran player the benefit of the doubt and McD has done it time and time again. Want to know why our rookies hardly make an impact, because they are in and out of the lineup like ***** yo-yos. When McD took over he had to play the young players and now they are the backbone of our team, the past few years he’s been babying these guys for mediocre vets. Dane and Elam are just another example of that. 

Edited July 28, 2023 by BananaB

[Manther]

9 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

He’s been a JAG the entirety of his career… why all of a sudden will that change now? 
 

All good though. People fall for this stuff every May/June/July/August and reality hits in September.

I think he will be a good 3/4/5 WR.  That would be more than a JAG

[whorlnut]

4 hours ago, Patrick Duffy said:

 

So you didn't answer the question that doesn't pertain to any of those things you mentioned above. Did you or did you not see his play on the field improve the last stretch of the season?

 

But I'll respond to your statement anyway, so no disrespect intended here, you kinda contradicted yourself a bit....you said "we have no idea any details in film room, practice etc" ...although you seem to be suggesting he has a lack of scheme knowledge and he's not where the staff wants etc. 

 

You can't say nobody knows what goes on in the film room etc and then follow it up with him having a lack of knowledge in the film room and how staff feels about where he's at...

 

 

You are literally arguing to argue.  The staff obviously hasn’t seen enough at this point or we wouldn’t even be having this discussion.

[Beck Water]

One reason I love reading different reports during training camp is because different guys see different things.

 

https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/2023/07/bills-offense-josh-allen-heat-up-on-rainy-day-2-of-camp-rookie-lineman-passes-early-test-observations.html

 

Case in point:

A number of reporters commented on Shakir deflecting a ball which was picked.  Matt Parrino saw it differently:

Quote

7. Cam Lewis makes a splash

During 7-on-7 early in practice, Lewis made one of the best plays of the day against the first-team offense. Allen was targeting Shakir, but Lewis came flying in at the catch point and tipped the ball up into the air to himself for the interception. Lewis is a bit of the forgotten man in the Bills’ secondary battles. He can play safety, boundary cornerback, and in the slot. He’s an ultra-competitive defensive back and a name to watch as a sleeper for the 53-man roster.

 

[John from Riverside]

The Elam thing is a puzzling one
 

We’re not dealing with a player that can’t play. He is actually shown whenever he got on the field that he can’t make plays and has every physical attribute in order to be a good player.

 

Two things

 

I think Binford is just really good

 

I don’t believe the DaneJackson is going to hold onto that number to spot as soon as he starts getting beat McDermott will make the switch

 

This is what is nice about having that extra year on a first round draft pick

[JohnBonhamRocks]

1 hour ago, BananaB said:

 Dane sucked last year, Elam outplayed him. This is your coach giving the veteran player the benefit of the doubt and McD has done it time and time again. Want to know why our rookies hardly make an impact, because they are in and out of the lineup like ***** yo-yos. When McD took over he had to play the young players and now they are the backbone of our team, the past few years he’s been babying these guys for mediocre vets. Dane and Elam are just another example of that. 

Fair points. Maybe it’s a light a fire under Elam tactic? I think they do really like Jackson though - he’s started 22 games the last 3 seasons. FWIW, which may be zilch, they graded about evenly per PFF. 

[78thealltimegreat]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

One reason I love reading different reports during training camp is because different guys see different things.

 

https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/2023/07/bills-offense-josh-allen-heat-up-on-rainy-day-2-of-camp-rookie-lineman-passes-early-test-observations.html

 

Case in point:

A number of reporters commented on Shakir deflecting a ball which was picked.  Matt Parrino saw it differently:

 

In other words it was essentially a jump ball and Lewis beat Shakir on it. Not good for Shakir. 

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, BananaB said:

 Dane sucked last year, Elam outplayed him. This is your coach giving the veteran player the benefit of the doubt and McD has done it time and time again. Want to know why our rookies hardly make an impact, because they are in and out of the lineup like ***** yo-yos. When McD took over he had to play the young players and now they are the backbone of our team, the past few years he’s been babying these guys for mediocre vets. Dane and Elam are just another example of that. 

This shows a significant lack of understanding.   It's day two of training camp, and Torrence, a rookie, was starting with the ones.  Edmunds started from day 1.  Your characterization of McDermott is simply incorrect.  

 

And I continue to say that complaints about Dane are evidence that people don't understand the defense.  Somebody posted data a month ago or so showing Sauce Gardiner gave less separation than any corner in the league in man and in zone.  Dane gave up a lot of separation in zone and was middle of the pack in man.  Why did Gardiner give up less separation in zone than Dane?   Because he didn't know how to play the defense.   In zone, you're supposed to leave your man as you read the keys.   Sticking by you man when the play is going the other way is a bad move. 

 

Dane knows what he's doing, which is why he's on the field, and Elam hasn't learned that yet.   I hope he does, because he has talent. 

 

And for those who say Elam outplayed Benford, I don't what you were watching.  Benford was clearly better until he got injured.  He was better because like Dane, he understood his role in the defense.  

[Beck Water]

4 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

In other words it was essentially a jump ball and Lewis beat Shakir on it. Not good for Shakir. 

 

That's not the picture I get from those words but, whatever

[Airseven]

6 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Why draft Elam so high if performance, work ethic, personality were issues? 

I’m indebted if you can find that answer.

[SCBills]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

 

Two things

 

I think Binford is just really good

 

 

This is what is nice about having that extra year on a first round draft pick

Agreed on Benford.  He may just be a very good player that was overlooked at a small school. 
 

Ehh… That 5th year option is still expensive when your QB is making 45M+

 

Year 2 for McDuffie in KC.  He’s starting.  They’re hoping to get above average production from him with 3 years before they have to pay him or let him walk. 
 

Year 2 for Elam in Buffalo.  Camp battle with a guy who is “solid” and here on a one year deal. 
 

It’s early.  Let’s see how it plays out.  But rookies need to produce early for us moving forward .. not in year 4 right before we have to make a cap decision on them. 

[HappyDays]

 

[78thealltimegreat]

10 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

That's not the picture I get from those words but, whatever

I did 

[Bills!Win!]

6 hours ago, NewEra said:

Yes, I do realize. You do realize it’s day 2 of training camp right?

 

again- do you.  Same **** different day

200 pages of OBJ and Hopkins has now turned into this

[Mat68]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

The Elam thing is a puzzling one
 

We’re not dealing with a player that can’t play. He is actually shown whenever he got on the field that he can’t make plays and has every physical attribute in order to be a good player.

 

Two things

 

I think Binford is just really good

 

I don’t believe the DaneJackson is going to hold onto that number to spot as soon as he starts getting beat McDermott will make the switch

 

This is what is nice about having that extra year on a first round draft pick

Seems like a trust issue with him.  He doesnt separate himself during practice but has made plays in game.  Interesting dynamic to watch. 

[JoeF]

10 hours ago, Augie said:

You can't drink all day if you don't start in the morning...

[Shaw66]

5 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

This is what I been wanting.  We need those easy 5 -7 yards . Josh will have 2 3 quick reads and most likely 1 will be open

As my thinking has evolved during the off-season, I've come around to what you're saying. 

 

It's heresy around here, I know, but I think the problem with the offense is not the weapons surrounding Josh, it's Josh.  In particular, it's Josh's completion percentage. 

 

What makes for consistently good offense is getting positive yardage on every play.   0 yards on a play is bad, negative yards is worse.  Josh has used the wrong thought process up until now.    If you have a 60% chance of completing a pass for 20 yards, one would think that's a better option than the 90% chance for 10 yards, because on average you get 12 yards out of the 60% play and only 9 yards out of the 90% play, but I don't think that thinking is correct.    The consequences of getting 0 yards on 40% of the longer throw is much worse than the extra yards gained on the 60%.   It's better to get positive yardage virtually all the time, even if that positive yardage is less than you'd get on the longer throw.   0 yards on a play is a bad outcome. 

 

Josh needs an offense that gives him 2-3 quick reads for 5-7 yards, and he needs to take them.  Save the downfield throws for the times when the chances of completing them are 80%, not 60%.   The rest of the time, take the easy throw.  

 

Josh is 37 on the career completion percentage list, behind about 15 current QBs, including Burrow, Mahomes, Herbert, and Rodgers, to name a few.  Retired names ahead of him included Peyton and Brees, Big Ben and Tom Brady, Steve Young and Kurt Warner.  

 

Josh doesn't complete enough passes, period.  He has the best arm in the league, maybe even in the history of the league, but to date he hasn't had the best head.   He needs to take and complete the easy throws.  

 

 

 

 

[John from Riverside]

7 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Allen is still Allen. They aren’t the Bears... I hope they are the Chiefs considering the standard at this point is getting to the SB right? 

Allen is  superman, no doubt about it, but he cannot do it all by himself to say that he does everything by himself is just folly

Edited July 28, 2023 by John from Riverside

[Andrew Son]

3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I won’t repeat myself. 

🤣🤣🤣

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

Fair points. Maybe it’s a light a fire under Elam tactic? I think they do really like Jackson though - he’s started 22 games the last 3 seasons. FWIW, which may be zilch, they graded about evenly per PFF. 

I hear you, but only one of those two guys had three picks last season, and that is called being a play maker, exactly what a team needs on the field, jmo.