Hines out for the year

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

1 hour ago, Jon in Pasadena said:

 

That is one fast-moving tree.

 

Somebody must have really triggered the Ents...

My prior post should be in a grammar book! 

[Augie]

2 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Been on a jet ski twice. Both times someone else on a jet ski was acting like an idiot and hit us. Can still feel where the second one skipped off the top of my head. That guy was going extremely fast with three kids on board in an area with a lot of people swimming. I'll never forget how the kids skipped like rocks about 50 yards in different directions. Luckily I was the only one hurt with a minor concussion. I jumped off just before they hit us and tried to go underwater. Happened to fast to get lifejacket off so I popped back up just as the jet ski got hit and got hit in the head. Was told I was extremely lucky I'm not dead. 

 

YIKES! When we lived in Florida I hated jet skis! Slamming along making you a little shorter with every ride. Shortly before we moved away a “professional jet skier”, whatever that is, was jumping a wake from a large boat and landed on another jet ski, killing someone. Shortly after we left, a bunch of my son’s friends were in a terrible boating accident resulting in countless surgeries, but no deaths. 

 

It all sounds so fun until you realize how dangerous and alcohol fueled much of this behavior is. 

[Fan in Chicago]

1 hour ago, Just in Atlanta said:

I found this bit interesting:

"The pilot of the jet ski was described as a disheveled-looking man in his 70s wearing a cutoff sweatshirt and sporting a slightly arrogant, mildly disinterested look on his face."

OJ? 

[chongli]

42 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Agreed. Lawyers and insurance companies know what activities to prohibit in these contracts.  Riding a jet ski might be a normal activity on vacation for the average joe but not for a football player whose playing career is on average 3-4 years.  I also find it interesting the report was that he was ‘stationary’ on the jet ski.  Clearly put out by his agent since ‘riding a jet ski’ is probably clearly prohibited by his contract.  

 

I bet the contract states something like "engaging in jet ski activates", since he was obviously intending to ride or had already done so. People just don't sit on a jet ski for no reason.

 

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

No NFL team can cut an injured player.  Not allowed, unless there's an "injury settlement" to pay him the number of weeks his injury requires to heal. 

 

Nor will the Bills place Hines on IR.  He'll go on "Reserve/Non-football injury".

 

The difference is that IR (injury while working out/practicing in team facility or in game) for a vet usually obligates the team to pay the player his full per game salary and per-game roster bonuses (but not active roster bonuses).

 

Under NFI, the team is only obligated to pay the player that portion of his salary that is fully guaranteed.

 

So no team can cut a player who is injured off-season and doing non-football related, most likely prohibited, activities? And why could there be an injury settlement when the Bills were not involved? I am just asking since this seems weird.

 

Also, can the Bills void the contract guarantees this year since he was engaged in most likely a prohibited activity? Can they also void his accredited season this year and have him through 2025?

 

  

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

I think teams have that clause so if a player with a cap-bending contract does get injured doing something stupid, they can get some relief.  But riding a jetski, especially if he wasn't the one doing something reckless, is pretty much an "every day life" sort of activity for people who live or vacation on a coast or on a lake.
 

 

I am not sure if this is really an "everyday life" sort of activity. Maybe it is. It also may not be reckless to sit on a jet ski but I would argue it is dangerous given what happened to him and other stories posted in this thread.

Edited July 24, 2023 by chongli

[Beck Water]

6 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

Tre was hurt at KC

 

Negative.  At New Orleans.

 

What Detroit, New Orleans, and the NJ Meadowlands had in common was the use of slit film astroturf.  The Bengals, Colts, and Vikings  also use it.

I believe several of these stadia have replaced it now.

 

It's been contentious with the NFLPA due to data of higher risk of lower extremity injuries on slit-film turf fields

 

Here's why:

 

Instead of being a single filament, slit-film turf has like a netting, where cleats are more likely to snag and twist the player's leg

 

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/nflpa-calls-immediate-replacement-ban-slit-firm-turf-fields

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/research-shows-statistically-significant-higher-risk-of-lower-extremity-injuries-on-slit-film-turf

 

 

[JoPoy88]

3 minutes ago, chongli said:

 

I bet the contract states something like "engaging in jet ski activates", since he was obviously intending to ride or had already done so. People just don't sit on a jet ski for no reason.

 

 

So no team can cut a player who is injured off-season and doing non-football related, most likely prohibited, activities? And why could there be an injury settlement when the Bills were not involved? I am just asking since this seems weird.

 

Also, can the Bills void the contract guarantees this year since he was engaged in most likely a prohibited activity?

probably best not to just assume riding a jet ski is a prohibited activity. It’s not an inherently dangerous or extremely risky thing to do.

5 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Negative.  At New Orleans.

 

What Detroit, New Orleans, and the NJ Meadowlands had in common was the use of slit film astroturf.  The Bengals, Colts, and Vikings  also use it.

I believe several of these stadia have replaced it now.

 

It's been contentious with the NFLPA due to data of higher risk of lower extremity injuries on slit-film turf fields

 

Here's why:

 

Instead of being a single filament, slit-film turf has like a netting, where cleats are more likely to snag and twist the player's leg

 

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/nflpa-calls-immediate-replacement-ban-slit-firm-turf-fields

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/research-shows-statistically-significant-higher-risk-of-lower-extremity-injuries-on-slit-film-turf

 

 

That seems like incredibly stupid design.

[JoPoy88]

So the Buffalo News from earlier today:

 

“The [standard NFL] contract stated those activities ‘shall include, but shall not be limited to skydiving, hang-gliding, mountain climbing, racing of any kind, use of motorcycles, use of any off-road vehicle, firearms, scuba diving and snow or water skiing.’ Those activities would find the player in "breach" of his contract.”

 

obviously jet skiing isn’t specifically listed, but there is a catch-all clause in there, as well as “racing of any kind” and “any off-road vehicle” (not usually used to describe personal watercraft, but still.) So if the team wanted to, I’m sure they could make some sort of case for breach. I highly doubt they will.

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/in-wake-of-nyheim-hines-injury-heres-what-standard-nfl-contracts-say-about-banned-off/article_1baaff32-2a4d-11ee-9d04-23173a879dde.html#:~:text=The contract stated those activities,"breach" of his contract.

(Paywalled)

[Beck Water]

41 minutes ago, chongli said:

 

I bet the contract states something like "engaging in jet ski activates", since he was obviously intending to ride or had already done so. People just don't sit on a jet ski for no reason.

 

 

So no team can cut a player who is injured off-season and doing non-football related, most likely prohibited, activities? And why could there be an injury settlement when the Bills were not involved? I am just asking since this seems weird.

 

Also, can the Bills void the contract guarantees this year since he was engaged in most likely a prohibited activity?

 

I don't think the standard language contract mentions jet skis.  TBN did a piece on contract language already:

 

Quote

On Page 2 of Bills defensive tackle Ed Oliver's contract, signed last month, a paragraph bans activities that "involve a significant risk of person injury and are non-football in nature." 

The contract stated those activities "shall include, but shall not be limited to skydiving, hang-gliding, mountain climbing, racing of any kind, use of motorcycles, use of any off-road vehicle, firearms, scuba diving and snow or water skiing."

Those activities would find the player in "breach" of his contract.

 

 

So it's not like the contract explicitly states "no engaging in jet ski activities".

My point was in general, teams can't cut an injured player unless there's an injury settlement for the length of the injury.

 

Now in this case, Bills could certainly claim that Hines was in breach of the "significant risk of person injury and are non-football in nature" clause of his contract, and cut him.  The Broncos did that with Ja'Wan James , who filed a grievance.  James was injured while actually working out off-site.  This caused a lot of fuss, since teams usually provide off-season conditioning programs players are encouraged to follow in order to show up in peak condition.  I can't imagine it did morale in the Broncos locker room any good.

 

Even though he wasn't working out, Hines would certainly file a grievance, and it would be messy.  In general, rules have to be enforced equally to all employees, so if there's video of Von Miller and Dawson Knox jet-skiing about with no consequence but Hines gets his contract voided because he was sitting on a jet ski and someone ran into him, I think that's legally not good.

The relatively low-ripple thing the Bills can do is put Hines on the Non-football Injury list (since it's clearly a non-football injury) and not pay the non-guaranteed portion of his salary.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Beck Water

[BADOLBILZ]

8 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

Yeah, they definitely shouldnt

 

That's what insurance policies are for Nyheim.........it's more than likely the contract he signed had language about dangerous off-field behavior.    Motorcycle,  atv, pwc........all the same.   

[chongli]

51 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I don't think the standard language contract mentions jet skis.  TBN did a piece on contract language already:

 

 

So it's not like the contract explicitly states "no engaging in jet ski activities".

My point was in general, teams can't cut an injured player unless there's an injury settlement for the length of the injury.

 

Now in this case, Bills could certainly claim that Hines was in breach of the "significant risk of person injury and are non-football in nature" clause of his contract, and cut him.  The Broncos did that with Ja'Wan James , who filed a grievance.  James was injured while actually working out off-site.  This caused a lot of fuss, since teams usually provide off-season conditioning programs players are encouraged to follow in order to show up in peak condition.  I can't imagine it did morale in the Broncos locker room any good.

 

Even though he wasn't working out, Hines would certainly file a grievance, and it would be messy.  In general, rules have to be enforced equally to all employees, so if there's video of Von Miller and Dawson Knox jet-skiing about with no consequence but Hines gets his contract voided because he was sitting on a jet ski and someone ran into him, I think that's legally not good.

The relatively low-ripple thing the Bills can do is put Hines on the Non-football Injury list (since it's clearly a non-football injury) and not pay the non-guaranteed portion of his salary.

 

Thanks for finding this excellent link. I think "shall not be limited to" is important. If they consider riding a motorcycle to be dangerous, then so is jet skiing, I would think.

 

Also, regarding injuries off the field and with no relation to football. Let's say I was injured falling off a ladder at home doing normal maintenance. I am out of work for the year doing whatever job. You can bet most employers would fire me, or at least put me on non-paid leave, unless I had enough sick leave, vacation time, whatever, accrued. I knew an employee at a grocery store. He was diagnosed with cancer and started missing a lot of time due to treatment for it. The grocery store quickly fired him for not being available. You can't really blame them for that. So why can't Hines be cut (not saying I would) for something with no relation to football? That's what non-occupational disability insurance and Social Security Disability Insurance are for (the latter only for injuries lasting more than year and where you can't do *any* job in your field).

Edited July 24, 2023 by chongli

[Beck Water]

8 minutes ago, chongli said:

 

Thanks for finding this excellent link. I think "shall not be limited to" is important. If they consider riding a motorcycle to be dangerous, then so is jet skiing, I would think.

 

Also, regarding injuries off the field and with no relation to football. Let's say I was injured falling off a ladder at home doing normal maintenance. I am out of work for the year doing whatever job. You can bet most employers would fire me, or at least put me on non-paid leave, unless I had enough sick leave, vacation time, whatever, accrued. I knew an employee at a grocery store. He was diagnosed with cancer and started missing a lot of time due to treatment for it. The grocery store quickly fired him for not being available. You can't really blame them for that. So why can't Hines be cut (not saying I would) for something with no relation to football? That's what non-occupational disability insurance and Social Security Disability Insurance is for (the latter only for injuries lasting more than year and where you can't do *any* job in your field).

 

Oh, Jesu.  I most certainly can blame the grocery store for firing an employee who missed time due to cancer treatment.  Not paying him if he's an hourly worker and isn't working hours, icky but I get it.  Non-paid leave, likewise.  But firing an employee who misses time due to needed medical treatment is the Land of Scrooge, not what happens in a civilized nation.  Especially since for most people, medical insurance is tied to employment.

 

I think this is getting aside from football, so I won't continue this. 

[BuffaloRebound]

8 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Oh, Jesu.  I most certainly can blame the grocery store for firing an employee who missed time due to cancer treatment.  Not paying him if he's an hourly worker and isn't working hours, icky but I get it.  Non-paid leave, likewise.  But firing an employee who misses time due to needed medical treatment is the Land of Scrooge, not what happens in a civilized nation.  Especially since for most people, medical insurance is tied to employment.

 

I think this is getting aside from football, so I won't continue this. 

You can’t compare a guy who makes $3m a year playing football who injured himself a week before training camp riding a jet ski to a minimum wage worker who has cancer.  It’s probably not worth the bad press pursuing his $3m guaranteed, but if I’m the Bills I’m extremely disappointed in Hines. 

[Mr. WEO]

Nearly 3 times as many pages as carries last year--his most impressive stat.

 

 

[NoSaint]

2 hours ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Agreed. Lawyers and insurance companies know what activities to prohibit in these contracts.  Riding a jet ski might be a normal activity on vacation for the average joe but not for a football player whose playing career is on average 3-4 years.  I also find it interesting the report was that he was ‘stationary’ on the jet ski.  Clearly put out by his agent since ‘riding a jet ski’ is probably clearly prohibited by his contract.  

Whoever released the verbiage was just trying to clearly offload fault to the other party 

 

 

[Dablitzkrieg]

56 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

That's what insurance policies are for Nyheim.........it's more than likely the contract he signed had language about dangerous off-field behavior.    Motorcycle,  atv, pwc........all the same.   

It stinks that someone who is just idol on a jetski could have money taken away for something he is not in the wrong for.  It just doesn't feel like the right thing for the Bills to do imo.  I understand what you are saying and the business side of the situation,  but it still feels wrong.

[maddenboy]

9 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Because by the time they needed to throw the ball underneath more they were:

 

1) Using James Cook more in that role and getting 5.7 yards per carry

 

2) Allen was struggling with more with short throw accuracy than long throws due to his elbow injury

 

The only RB in the NFL who might be as good as an actual starting slot WR running routes is McCaffrey.   And even then we aren't talking exceptional in that regard.  Otherwise these guys gotta' run the ball to warrant receiver looks.    They aren't the equivalent of slot WR's regardless of the hyperbole people want to attach to their games. 

around that time i heard a 3rd reason on Sirius XM (i think)

 

Because of Allen's elbow injury, and therefore his limited pitch count in practice, there werent enough reps in practice to use on getting Hardy up to speed.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, chongli said:

I am not sure if this is really an "everyday life" sort of activity. Maybe it is. It also may not be reckless to sit on a jet ski but I would argue it is dangerous given what happened to him and other stories posted in this thread.

 

Yeah a Jet-ski is not a canoe, @Beck Water.  

 

I have one that goes 70 mph with no brakes (unless you are moving at 2-3 mph).   It's permitted to go in ONE direction(left turns like NASCAR) on the body of water I am on because otherwise people would continue to run into and kill each other.     Nyheim's still happen though because people think they are just getting on an amusement park ride.  

[BuffaloRebound]

9 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

It stinks that someone who is just idol on a jetski could have money taken away for something he is not in the wrong for.  It just doesn't feel like the right thing for the Bills to do imo.  I understand what you are saying and the business side of the situation,  but it still feels wrong.

C’mon.  He’s an idiot for even getting on a jet ski during his playing years and is lucky he doesn’t play for an organization like the Bengals, who wouldn’t hesitate to go after his guaranteed money.  

[zow2]

Stinks for Hines. There’s a very real possibility he never plays another game in a Bills uniform. Not just due to injury but who knows which direction the Bills go in for RB’s in 2024?  Hines could be the odd man out. But if that’s the last we see of Nyheim, that New England game last season was a thing of beauty 

[BullBuchanan]

it's a damn shame for the kid and for us. Now McD/Dorsey will have to find someone else to absorb his 6 carries. We ruined his career.

Edited July 25, 2023 by BullBuchanan