Hines out for the year

[Not at the table Karlos]

1 hour ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Looks like jet ski accident. We have a jet ski and like to think we are pretty responsible.

 

I get so sick though of seeing other jet skiers flying around each other— super dangerous.  Seems like that’s what happened— probably a buddy of his got

too close and hit him. Ruined his career. 

Been on a jet ski twice. Both times someone else on a jet ski was acting like an idiot and hit us. Can still feel where the second one skipped off the top of my head. That guy was going extremely fast with three kids on board in an area with a lot of people swimming. I'll never forget how the kids skipped like rocks about 50 yards in different directions. Luckily I was the only one hurt with a minor concussion. I jumped off just before they hit us and tried to go underwater. Happened to fast to get lifejacket off so I popped back up just as the jet ski got hit and got hit in the head. Was told I was extremely lucky I'm not dead. 

[AuntieEm]

6 hours ago, Blank Stare said:

And so it begins….

 

The ugly side of football. Hate injuries. 

 

   Since this injury occurred before the season seems to me the correct phrasing should be. -- The ugly side of living, the injuries. The info provided above doesn't indicate how the injury occurred.  He could have blown out his knee number of ways.  

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

3 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Been on a jet ski twice. Both times someone else on a jet ski was acting like an idiot and hit us. Can still feel where the second one skipped off the top of my head. That guy was going extremely fast with three kids on board in an area with a lot of people swimming. I'll never forget how the kids skipped like rocks about 50 yards in different directions. Luckily I was the only one hurt with a minor concussion. I jumped off just before they hit us and tried to go underwater. Happened to fast to get lifejacket off so I popped back up just as the jet ski got hit and got hit in the head. Was told I was extremely lucky I'm not dead. 

sounds awful And traumatic and glad you survived! 
 

I see this all the time on the lake where we have a place. I think people think that because they are on water, it is safer. 
 

my SIL has a place on a lake and these two teenage brothers would go like 70 MPH, zipping in and out of other boats, and almost hit their boat. She complained to the parents and to no avail. Same brothers hit a tree going over 100 MPH in a car that same winter and died.  

[Goin Breakdown]

Freekin JETS(kis)

[BuffaloRebound]

Pretty sure most NFL contracts have clauses that negate guarantees if you engage in risky activities.  I’d be surprised if jet ski isn’t one of those activities.  

[NickelCity]

This sucks.

[Logic]

Brutal.

I'm sorry to hear it for Hines' sake and for the Bills sake. 

Have to think this is probably the end of the line for his time in Buffalo. He'll be 27 years old next year, coming off an ACL injury, and with a $4 million base salary. 

Hard to think whoever the Bills sign to replace him (from the Kylin Hills and Abram Smiths of the world) won't be a downgrade at kick returner.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Logic

[TBBills Fan]

5 minutes ago, Goin Breakdown said:

Freekin JETS(kis)

Ander freekin jet skis!

[JerseyBills]

7 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Tough break for a really good dude. This potentially ends his Buffalo career as he's a FA after the season.

Thats what i thought. Sportrac has him signed through next season,  though with his dead cap at 500k and cap hit at 5 mil. It's likely he's done, unless we can bring that # down

 

Bums me out.i was fully expecting some Cook/Hines backfields and Hines just a great chess piece in general. Remember Beane or someone saying he'd have a much bigger role on O ... ****

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/nyheim-hines-25205/

1 hour ago, ngbills said:

NFL Salary Cap Changes 

 

A few common sense rules that should change. 1) Players on the IR should not count vs the cap. If they played a portion of the season prorate the cap it by games before going on IR. Obviously NFL will need to make sure teams dont abuse the rule. 2) Retired players should be the same as IR players. Same goes for monitoring for abuse. 

 

Changes I would like to see. The salary of drafted players do not have a cap, only free agents. If you draft well and run a good franchise you keep your guys. Draft crappy you will need to spend and could run into cap issues. Will have less player movement, so NFL will never go for it. 

Facts!! 

Wow..

 

Just chilling on a jet ski.. ****!!😡😡😡😡😡

 

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by JerseyBills

[Talleywhacker]

Late getting in here. What happens to Hines salary ? I believe he was on the books for $5 million this year.

[Jon in Pasadena]

54 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Same brothers hit a tree going over 100 MPH in a car that same winter and died.  

 

That is one fast-moving tree.

 

Somebody must have really triggered the Ents...

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, BarleyNY said:

 

Generally there is specific contractual language regarding risky activities. I believe that it is used as more of a deterrent than an effective way of recouping cash (and cap space) however. Not to say that teams can’t enforce those clauses if they choose.

 

I remember when Terrell Suggs tore his achilles playing pick up hoops. Then his story changed to “during conditioning drills”. The Ravens just ate it without a fight. It’s very bad PR to go after players for stuff that happens in every day life. If the Bills were to go after Hines for money in this case, then it would impact future contracts and FA signing. No bueno. They’re not stupid so they’ll just deal with it. But I doubt you’ll see a lot of NFL players skiing or parachuting. 

 

On a personal note, I was tobogganing in the Cleveland area in 2009. Alex Boone was next to me on the hill. He’d just been drafted by the 49ers and I heard him comment on what his coach would think of it. Not sure how that would’ve worked out for him if he’d gotten hurt that day. 

 

This, pretty much.  Diggs has posted social media stuff of him bungie jumping and skydiving.  Poyer has gone skiing.  Von Miller jet skiing.  The Bills must know Ed Oliver loves his horses and rides regularly - has posted photos of him standing on the saddle!

 

I think teams have that clause so if a player with a cap-bending contract does get injured doing something stupid, they can get some relief.  But riding a jetski, especially if he wasn't the one doing something reckless, is pretty much an "every day life" sort of activity for people who live or vacation on a coast or on a lake.

That said, it is a "non football injury" and I'm wondering where Sal C gets his info that the Bills eat the entire cap.  Some teams have even put players who were injured working out off-site on NFI and not paid their salary; it's not something the teams have to "go after", they simply pay them the contractually obligated amount.

 

[Beck Water]

8 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Tough break for a really good dude. This potentially ends his Buffalo career as he's a FA after the season.

 

Hines signed a new, 2 year contract with Buffalo this off season.

He is under contract to the Bills thru 2024.

 

Now, if it's that significant of a knee injury it may be a distinction without a difference, as he'll have little dead cap ($500k) next season, and he may not be the same player; he struggled last season to establish himself on our offense.  The Bills may very well move on.

 

7 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

It appears that the Bills would suffer a $1.5M dead cap while gaining $2M in cap if they were to cut him. That's really not much of a dead cap. Now, I think they will more than likely just IR him...but being he was injured working out away from team activities may open the door for a release.

 

No NFL team can cut an injured player.  Not allowed, unless there's an "injury settlement" to pay him the number of weeks his injury requires to heal. 

 

Nor will the Bills place Hines on IR.  He'll go on "Reserve/Non-football injury".

 

The difference is that IR (injury while working out/practicing in team facility or in game) for a vet usually obligates the team to pay the player his full per game salary and per-game roster bonuses (but not active roster bonuses).

 

Under NFI, the team is only obligated to pay the player that portion of his salary that is fully guaranteed.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Beck Water

[Just in Atlanta]

I found this bit interesting:

"The pilot of the jet ski was described as a disheveled-looking man in his 70s wearing a cutoff sweatshirt and sporting a slightly arrogant, mildly disinterested look on his face."

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, ngbills said:

 

Harty makes the most sense. Only other options Shakir and potentially Murray on KO's. 

 

Shakir's performance on punt returns was, I think, one reason why we traded for Hines.

 

But, it's also possible he might improve.

[chris heff]

1 hour ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Been on a jet ski twice. Both times someone else on a jet ski was acting like an idiot and hit us. Can still feel where the second one skipped off the top of my head. That guy was going extremely fast with three kids on board in an area with a lot of people swimming. I'll never forget how the kids skipped like rocks about 50 yards in different directions. Luckily I was the only one hurt with a minor concussion. I jumped off just before they hit us and tried to go underwater. Happened to fast to get lifejacket off so I popped back up just as the jet ski got hit and got hit in the head. Was told I was extremely lucky I'm not dead. 

A friend of mine owned a Jet Ski rental, his biggest problem was people hitting each other.

[Einstein's Dog]

17 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

This, pretty much.  Diggs has posted social media stuff of him bungie jumping and skydiving.  Poyer has gone skiing.  Von Miller jet skiing.  The Bills must know Ed Oliver loves his horses and rides regularly - has posted photos of him standing on the saddle!

 

I think teams have that clause so if a player with a cap-bending contract does get injured doing something stupid, they can get some relief.  But riding a jetski, especially if he wasn't the one doing something reckless, is pretty much an "every day life" sort of activity for people who live or vacation on a coast or on a lake.

That said, it is a "non football injury" and I'm wondering where Sal C gets his info that the Bills eat the entire cap.  Some teams have even put players who were injured working out off-site on NFI and not paid their salary; it's not something the teams have to "go after", they simply pay them the contractually obligated amount.

 

Huge difference between investigating to see if a violation occured and not enforcing the contract when dealing with a clear violation with a resulting injury.

 

They have these clauses so the players think twice about doing the activity.  It's backwards thinking to think they will let Hines slide but go full out contract technical on a Josh or Diggs.  These things usually work in the opposite direction.

 

I agree with you and think Sal C is mistaken.  Make Hines pay and give Josh something to think about before his posse engages in things like this.

[Chaos]

With Edmunds gone aNd Hines hurt, all hope is lost. 

[BobbyC81]

So, who was the Dolphins player riding the other jetski?

[BuffaloRebound]

22 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

Huge difference between investigating to see if a violation occured and not enforcing the contract when dealing with a clear violation with a resulting injury.

 

They have these clauses so the players think twice about doing the activity.  It's backwards thinking to think they will let Hines slide but go full out contract technical on a Josh or Diggs.  These things usually work in the opposite direction.

 

I agree with you and think Sal C is mistaken.  Make Hines pay and give Josh something to think about before his posse engages in things like this.

Agreed. Lawyers and insurance companies know what activities to prohibit in these contracts.  Riding a jet ski might be a normal activity on vacation for the average joe but not for a football player whose playing career is on average 3-4 years.  I also find it interesting the report was that he was ‘stationary’ on the jet ski.  Clearly put out by his agent since ‘riding a jet ski’ is probably clearly prohibited by his contract.