Rewatching the Week 3 Dolphins game

[PBF81]

47 minutes ago, colin said:

not only was LF a turtle of a man calling the D and getting predictable and lame in big situations, but i sure it made the players less confident.  

 

Corch mcd is putting his nuts on the line this season, there will be zero place to hide if his very expensive D falls apart again.

 

I think he's going to show improve, but it will have to play out for us to see.

 

Regarding that bolded part, one would think that, but three more years of extensions says differently, A, and B, IMO he'll live off of the "he got us out of our playoff drought" narrative for at least a decade total, which means until his extension finishes and he's played in the new stadium at least once.   Talk about a teflon coach.  

 

While IMO it's not a good sign, he's successfully now imported almost his entire coaching staff from when he was in Carolina, not merely on the D side either, but Washington, Holcomb, and Babich were all there with him directly under him on D.  I don't see what all the hype was there as his results were both inconsistent and otherwise patently average on the whole at best.  

 

In the one season that he finished with the 6th ranked Scoring and 6th ranked Yardage Ds, but he also had the easiest schedule that any team has had from 2011 to last season, 12 seasons.  Carolina only faced two teams with double-digit wins during the regular season, both were 10-6 and both were wild-cards that season.  

 

His defenses at Carolina, with the help of the aforementioned coaching assistants now transplanted here, averaged 13th in Yardage D with the Scoring D lagging that at 17th on average.  His last season there was his second worst at Carolina, so there was no trend towards improvement and his last season was only second-worst to his first and rookie season as a DC.  

 

In four of his six seasons there his Scoring D ranked below-average at 18th, 21st, 26th, and 27th.  And again, his 6th ranked Scoring D was against the easiest schedule of any NFL team that decade and the past two seasons included.  Who knows what happened in 2013, his third season there with the 2nd ranked D both Scoring and Yardage, but in the playoffs it was more of the same that we've seen here with defensive underachievement and a divisional round loss in their first playoff game, and to a team led by Kaepernick on top of it by letting SF dominate them offensively.  Carolina had 8 drives and scored on 5 of them.  

 

I'd like to be optimistic regarding the defensive side of things, but between that above and our defensive performances in the playoffs with only two exceptions against to teams lacking any significant offensive prowess, tell me that I shouldn't hold my breath.  

 

On the flip side, if Dorsey and Allen can put the offense together properly, I see absolutely no reason why it cannot be the highest scoring offense in Bills' history.  I'm not sure what to think offensively at the moment.  Unless our OL is what it seems that it should be and Kincaid does something better than average for a TE, and they actually use the RBs more, then we should be fine.  Whether Dorsey does that remains to be seen.  

 

 

[buffblue]

21 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

In four of his six seasons there his Scoring D ranked below-average at 18th, 21st, 26th, and 27th.  

 

To be fair, during his time there the Panthers were matched up twice a year with elite qb's in Brees and Ryan. Even the Bucs could be fairly explosive with Jameis 

[ngbills]

12 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

But all the MORE REASON TO ATTACK and make their jobs easier/more defined. When you've got elite talent on the field, you can afford to let your guys just beat their guys straight up. But when you're fielding backups and exhausted starters, it makes sense to help them out a little. 

 

It's not about the results as much as it's about the tactics, in a discussion like this.

Actually its the opposite. When you have elite DB's you can attack more and take chances. With the guys we had playing they need some help. They are not going win the numbers game its just a matter of time. 

[billsbackto81]

6 hours ago, buffblue said:

For those who feel sending an extra rusher would have been unwise due to inexperience, would you at least agree that sending 3 was a poor decision in hindsight and completely futile? 

I'll allow it, but be careful counselor, you're playing a dangerous game here.

[PrimeTime101]

4 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

Except that McD isn't, he's become very effective at throwing others under the bus furtively.  

 

 

Name one time he threw someone under the bus?

[PBF81]

1 minute ago, buffblue said:

To be fair, during his time there the Panthers were matched up twice a year with elite qb's in Brees and Ryan. Even the Bucs could be fairly explosive with Jameis 

 

Well, OK, but that applies to all teams.  No team gets to play only poor offensive teams.  ... or poor defensive teams for that matter.  

 

Also to be fair, Atlanta's offense averaged 11th in scoring O in those six seasons.  

 

Otherwise, in the 12 games that he played against Carolina, his D allowed an average of 28.6 PPG against them.  Their scoring averages in those seasons were 34.2 in 2011, 28.8, 25.9, 25.1, 25.5, and 29.3 in 2016.  So McD parred at best, but underachieved in general.  In half of those games NO scored over 30 points, 28 and 27 in two others.  

 

Against the Falcons in 12 games his D allowed an average of 22.1 PPG, but that includes two games where it allowed 0 and 3 points.  In five of their 7 losses his D was directly responsible for those losses allowing 30, 31, 31, 33, and 48.  Atlanta in those seasons averaged 25.1, 26.2, 22.1, 23.8, 21.2, and 33.8.  In the 33.8 season McD's D allowed 33 and 408 yards, and 41 points and 571 yards.  

 

So considering that he really wasn't impressive.  

 

 

[PBF81]

15 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

Name one time he threw someone under the bus?

 

LOL, seriously?  

How about firing Jim Salgado after our playoff losses this season, the Safeties coach, who did nothing wrong in his coaching tenure here, his only stint I think.  ... other than not ever having coached in Carolina that is.  Hell, he's arguably had the best unit on the team on McD's watch.  

 

And 13-seconds?  LMAO  What a wimp on that!   Saying he takes responsibility with strong undertones that he wasn't really responsible.  

 

As someone else has pointed out several times, if Frasier was that big of an issue on defense, then why was he here for 6 seasons as the DC.  So either McD's not competent in that, or he too threw Frasier under the bus.  We'll never know because despite the "high character" veil, he doesn't practice it himself when discussing the team.  

 

We'll see what happens this season otherwise, but IMO the expectations are too lofty.  

 

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by PBF81

[Robert Paulson]

I've said this before- they wanted Frazier hired as a head coach so they could get the draft picks and didn't want to fire an older respected AA coach.  they were hoping a Houston or some other dumpster fire team would bring him to stabilizes a team during a tear down like Lovey. 

 

problem is Frazier's D sh!t the bed 3 years in a row during the playoffs= word gets around among coaches and execs. 

 

it finally got to the point where they realized he was not getting another HC job so they came up with this walking away ruse to get him off the property. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

That’s still one of the statistically flukiest losses in NFL history I’m pretty sure lol it’s crazy to even think about

 

i wonder if part of Frazier getting let go is player development.  Our young guys at LB and safety just haven’t been improving it feels like. 

Edited July 24, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[GoBills808]

30 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

Name one time he threw someone under the bus?

Not directly threw him under the bus but personally didn't appreciate how he labelled the Diggs situation 'very concerning' then left Allen to take all the media arrows and eventually ended up pretending like nothing happened

[Pabstblueribbon]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Not directly threw him under the bus but personally didn't appreciate how he labelled the Diggs situation 'very concerning' then left Allen to take all the media arrows and eventually ended up pretending like nothing happened

 

Lol I thought the "name one time" post was a little bold considering its been only a few weeks since he evidently told Diggs to go home then chucked him right under the bus when people asked about the obvious. 

[YattaOkasan]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

The vaunted 3 man rush 🤦🏻‍♂️ 

 

 

It works against Mahomes really well.  I hope we continue using it against him and Burrow.

31 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

LOL, seriously?  

How about firing Jim Salgado after our playoff losses this season, the Safeties coach, who did nothing wrong in his coaching tenure here, his only stint I think.  ... other than not ever having coached in Carolina that is.  Hell, he's arguably had the best unit on the team on McD's watch.  

 

And 13-seconds?  LMAO  What a wimp on that!   Saying he takes responsibility with strong undertones that he wasn't really responsible.  

 

As someone else has pointed out several times, if Frasier was that big of an issue on defense, then why was he here for 6 seasons as the DC.  So either McD's not competent in that, or he too threw Frasier under the bus.  We'll never know because despite the "high character" veil, he doesn't practice it himself when discussing the team.  

 

We'll see what happens this season otherwise, but IMO the expectations are too lofty.  

 

 

McD sorta gave that guy his only shot in the NFL though right?  If anything I think Salgado would love McD considering his growth from Defensive Asst (2017-2019), Nickel Coach (2020-2021, this is a position that McD created), and Safety Coach (2022) with the Bills.  Is parting ways with a coach throwing them under the bus (I dont see any comments from McD about him even)?  Not disagreeing that someone has been thrown under the bus (ST coach was what I thought you would use), but this seems like the wrong example.

Edited July 24, 2023 by YattaOkasan

[NewEra]

6 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

It works against Mahomes really well.  I hope we continue using it against him and Burrow.

McD sorta gave that guy his only shot in the NFL though right?  If anything I think Salgado would love McD considering his growth from Defensive Asst (2017-2019), Nickel Coach (2020-2021, this is a position that McD created), and Safety Coach (2022) with the Bills.  Is parting ways with a coach throwing them under the bus (I dont see any comments from McD about him even)?  Not disagreeing that someone has been thrown under the bus (ST coach was what I thought you would use), but this seems like the wrong example.

I should’ve been more specific.  “The vaunted 3 man rush on 3rd and 20+”

 

the 3 man rush that stifles those guys replace a pass rusher with a spy.  On 3rd and 20+ the qb running for the 1st down would be the least of my worries (while possible, it’s not what worries me).

[YattaOkasan]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

I should’ve been more specific.  “The vaunted 3 man rush on 3rd and 20+”

 

the 3 man rush that stifles those guys replace a pass rusher with a spy.  On 3rd and 20+ the qb running for the 1st down would be the least of my worries (while possible, it’s not what worries me).

No sweat.  I think 3 was a mistake in the situation referenced here but would not have blitzed.  Ultimately, I also put this on the players though (gotta know down and distance).  Agree with your comment of the spy.

[PrimeTime101]

45 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

LOL, seriously?  

How about firing Jim Salgado after our playoff losses this season, the Safeties coach, who did nothing wrong in his coaching tenure here, his only stint I think.  ... other than not ever having coached in Carolina that is.  Hell, he's arguably had the best unit on the team on McD's watch.  

 

And 13-seconds?  LMAO  What a wimp on that!   Saying he takes responsibility with strong undertones that he wasn't really responsible.  

 

As someone else has pointed out several times, if Frasier was that big of an issue on defense, then why was he here for 6 seasons as the DC.  So either McD's not competent in that, or he too threw Frasier under the bus.  We'll never know because despite the "high character" veil, he doesn't practice it himself when discussing the team.  

 

We'll see what happens this season otherwise, but IMO the expectations are too lofty.  

 

 

thats what HC do. they fire Coaches when they see they not doing their job. Something you and I would have 0 clue if they were doing their job or not. You and I are clueless to know if a Coach at any position is doing "there job correctly" or not. 

[PBF81]

17 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

It works against Mahomes really well.  I hope we continue using it against him and Burrow.

McD sorta gave that guy his only shot in the NFL though right?  If anything I think Salgado would love McD considering his growth from Defensive Asst (2017-2019), Nickel Coach (2020-2021, this is a position that McD created), and Safety Coach (2022) with the Bills.  Is parting ways with a coach throwing them under the bus (I dont see any comments from McD about him even)?  Not disagreeing that someone has been thrown under the bus (ST coach was what I thought you would use), but this seems like the wrong example.

 

I don't think it's the wrong example at all.  Someone should have been fired after that, OR McD should have come clean that it was truly his fault instead of "accepting responsibility" while implying that it was someone else's, thereby hanging Frazier out to dry like he did.  

 

But to pick on the coach whose entire starting unit was unavailable to start in 20 of 32 starts between them, while still performing well with backups, to me is unconscionable.  It also reinforces the point made.  

 

Your point completely ignores that and the original point that I made.  It doesn't matter that McD gave him a shot, he's also given a bunch of coaches that haven't anteed up shots, but they were from Carolina with him and they weren't fired.  

 

And I mean really, what, it was Salgado's coaching that caused us to lose?  LOL  That's a ridiculous proposition.  

 

IMO McD doesn't have what it takes to get rid of coaches that aren't performing.  

 

This season he has most of his former staff at Carolina under him, he's successfully transition their coaching staff from 2011-2016 to Buffalo for the most part.  Count me in among those that think that this is closer to not working out for him than it is for working out for him, but this season will certainly tell.  

 

At least it seems to be a growing mindset that should we underperform again that there won't be anywhere for him to assess blame besides himself.  ... which will be refreshing if he can't perform up to standards and the talent that he has.  

 

 

3 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

thats what HC do. they fire Coaches when they see they not doing their job. Something you and I would have 0 clue if they were doing their job or not. You and I are clueless to know if a Coach at any position is doing "there job correctly" or not. 

 

By implication you see that the Safeties coach was more responsible than any other for our poor playoffs performance.  I have no idea how that's rational.  

 

Otherwise, see my post above.  

 

 

[GoBills808]

i would encourage people who advocate blitz here to rewatch esp if you have coaches film available

 

tua looks off hamlin who is shading hill...bringing a bunch of guys in blitz would likely leave hamlin even more exposed on hill's side...and waddle would have walked in for a td having beaten johnson assuming blitz doesnt get home of course

[NewEra]

57 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

LOL, seriously?  

How about firing Jim Salgado after our playoff losses this season, the Safeties coach, who did nothing wrong in his coaching tenure here, his only stint I think.  ... other than not ever having coached in Carolina that is.  Hell, he's arguably had the best unit on the team on McD's watch.  

 

And 13-seconds?  LMAO  What a wimp on that!   Saying he takes responsibility with strong undertones that he wasn't really responsible.  

 

As someone else has pointed out several times, if Frasier was that big of an issue on defense, then why was he here for 6 seasons as the DC.  So either McD's not competent in that, or he too threw Frasier under the bus.  We'll never know because despite the "high character" veil, he doesn't practice it himself when discussing the team.  

 

We'll see what happens this season otherwise, but IMO the expectations are too lofty.  

 

 

And how do you know this?  You don’t.  
 

I do know that if he had instructed his unit to bat the ball down on 4th and 17 we would’ve had the 1 seed.  His fault?  Idk….. but I’m SURE that you have absolutely no idea if Salgado did anything wrong during his tenure here.   Pure bs post.

[All_Pro_Bills]

57 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

LOL, seriously?  

How about firing Jim Salgado after our playoff losses this season, the Safeties coach, who did nothing wrong in his coaching tenure here, his only stint I think.  ... other than not ever having coached in Carolina that is.  Hell, he's arguably had the best unit on the team on McD's watch.  

 

And 13-seconds?  LMAO  What a wimp on that!   Saying he takes responsibility with strong undertones that he wasn't really responsible.  

 

As someone else has pointed out several times, if Frasier was that big of an issue on defense, then why was he here for 6 seasons as the DC.  So either McD's not competent in that, or he too threw Frasier under the bus.  We'll never know because despite the "high character" veil, he doesn't practice it himself when discussing the team.  

 

We'll see what happens this season otherwise, but IMO the expectations are too lofty.  

 

 

I'll tell you what annoyed me more than the 13 seconds?  The 12 seconds in week 6 against the Chiefs where they did the exact same thing except this time the Chiefs had only one timeout.  They squib kicked this time but it made no difference.  Granted it was 63 yards but come on. 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

LOL, seriously?  

How about firing Jim Salgado after our playoff losses this season, the Safeties coach, who did nothing wrong in his coaching tenure here, his only stint I think.  ... other than not ever having coached in Carolina that is.  Hell, he's arguably had the best unit on the team on McD's watch.  

 

 

 

Salgado was only safeties coach in 2022. He was a defensive quality control guy for 3 years and then a nickel coach in 2020 and 2021. The safeties struggled last year. Health and inexperience was an issue but the playoff loss was Jordan Poyer's (who was injured in fairness) worst game as a Bill. I think it is very legit to say the safeties coach last year did a poor job.

 

And he cannot claim to have had the "best unit on the team" before that.