OT…opinions of Jalen Hurts

[Billl]

12 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Again, better team, better coach, weaker conference.

So you choose to compare their regular season performances when Josh had better numbers, but when it comes to the postseason and Hurts has better numbers, it’s an invalid comparison?  

[Mikie2times]

2 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Did they band pushing the QB from behind? I did not know that. 
 

yup

[Rigotz]

Too early to say.

[julian]

5 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

So we're just going to leave out the 13 rushing TDs?

 

Winning is the goal, not stats.  Justin Herbert puts up gaudy stats.  What has it ever led to?  

Nope, he had an outstanding season, but to be considered an elite QB you have to be an elite passer of the football, the rushing numbers are all gravy but without the ability to consistently beat teams with the passing game you have Lamar Jackson and now Hurts unless or until he progresses in the passing game.

 

 Jimmy G wins lots of games, that alone doesn’t make an elite QB.

6 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

 

When people debate Allen's place in the top end of QBs us Bills fans are always quick to point out that you have to incorporate Josh's rushing ability into the equation. Same should apply to Hurts.

 

Minimize him for 22 passing YDs, but don't forget to stack those 13 rushing TDs he scored last year or the fact that he only turned the ball over 6 times in the regular season.

 

Is Hurts an "elite" QB? No, not yet. He had an elite season last year and is trending in that direction IMO.  

I agree he had an elite season and yes rushing stats count, the difference being you take away Allen’s rushing stats and he still has an elite season passing alone, the same can’t be said for Hurts. 
 

 He can get there, but he has a ways to go in the passing game.

[newcam2012]

5 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

On a much better team. Better WR, better OL, Better RB, better coach.

 

Hurts is fine. He's a system QB

I agree but wasn't Hurts very good when he got inserted into the starting line up the previous season? That team wasn't playing nearly as good either. 

[bigK14094]

Hurts improved so much from his performance at Alabama I can't believe it.   Leaving Alabama for OK was a great move getting other coaching.  And, he got good coaching in Philly too.  Not everybody would succeed like he did.  RESPECT!

[Beck Water]

17 hours ago, billsbackto81 said:

They have very good coaches as well. It's quite the embarrassment of riches. 

 

Hurts is an excellent QB and he compliments that roster very well.

 

But, there are a few QBs in this league that would have done quite well with that line up, ours being one of them.  

 

So, question.  Eagles lost OC Shane Steichen and moved QB coach Brian Johnson to OC. 

 

Johnson does have experience as an OC at 3 different college programs (unclear whether he was OC in name at some), but no OC experience in the NFL.

 

Will this be a seamless transition of OCs, or will there be growing pains?  Thoughts?

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 hour ago, julian said:

Nope, he had an outstanding season, but to be considered an elite QB you have to be an elite passer of the football, the rushing numbers are all gravy but without the ability to consistently beat teams with the passing game you have Lamar Jackson and now Hurts unless or until he progresses in the passing game.

 

 Jimmy G wins lots of games, that alone doesn’t make an elite QB.

I agree he had an elite season and yes rushing stats count, the difference being you take away Allen’s rushing stats and he still has an elite season passing alone, the same can’t be said for Hurts. 
 

 He can get there, but he has a ways to go in the passing game.

This is where I sort of away away from popular opinion. If we took away Allen's rushing statistics I would say he had a great year last year...but not an elite year due to the turnovers. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

2 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

yup

 

I believe you are mistaken.  I've searched and could not find anything about a new rule to ban the "tush- push".

[billsbackto81]

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

So, question.  Eagles lost OC Shane Steichen and moved QB coach Brian Johnson to OC. 

 

Johnson does have experience as an OC at 3 different college programs (unclear whether he was OC in name at some), but no OC experience in the NFL.

 

Will this be a seamless transition of OCs, or will there be growing pains?  Thoughts?

Basically the same lateral move the Bills did with Dorsey. Making this move would imply both share the same schemes and philosophies, to an extent. This means familiarity and minimal learning curve for the players which is a big plus for a championship aspiring team.

 

Contrary to some here IMO Dorsey did a decent job as a Rookie OC and I would expect Johnson to have similar results. 

 

Big year for Dorsey as it seems he will try to implement at times a more "Big Package" scheme😂 for a more competent run game and TE diverse  offense. Plus keeping JA17 upright is also a focal point this year.

[Nextmanup]

Hurts is a top QB; the fact that his line is fantastic doesn't make him less good.

 

 

 

[julian]

27 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

This is where I sort of away away from popular opinion. If we took away Allen's rushing statistics I would say he had a great year last year...but not an elite year due to the turnovers. 

Turnovers are only part of it… nobo, dy is saying the excessive INTs for Mahomes and Burrow prevent last season from being elite for those guys… Allen threw for 35TDs and it was he’s least amount in 3 years, 22 was Hurts most in 3 years, I’m saying he’s on the right path but just not there yet.

 

 This is just my personal belief and standard, but I don’t think you can enter the conversation without hitting 30 TD passes, and even then it’s the starting point and now you look at other aspects.

 

of course I retain the right to change my opinion if and when a QB regularly dominates the league while throwing for 22 TD passes. I do believe Hurts will continue to improve in the passing game and I’ve never felt that way with Lamar.

[BigDingus]

I think the board is making the same mistake they always do when we see the fan & media praise another QB is getting, and think it's at the expense of OUR guy.

 

In response, we underrate these guys & cherry pick things to discredit them with.

 

Hurts may have a better line, but that's not an indictment on him, it's credit to his front office for assembling a better team. We all thought Tua was a joke, then he suddenly played great when he was surrounded by more great players (and not concussed). 

 

People piled on Allen after his rookie year, but then a concerted effort was made to improve his WRs bringing in Beasley & Brown, followed by Diggs the next year. Suddenly, Allen goes off in 2020.... but should Ravens fans look at the Madden ratings of his WRs & say Allen deserves less credit than Lamar because his WRs were better?

 

When I see QBs have great seasons after significant roster upgrades, it just tells me they had more potential than I otherwise gave them credit for. Despite what people think, a bad QB isn't going to magically be great just because the rest of the team is great...

 

They can win games, sure, but it'll be clear who deserves the bulk of the credit. The 49ers are a great team, but the QB position isn't the driving factor. The Trent Dilfer Ravens won a SB, but we all know who gets the credit. Hurts is the opposite of that. Even though the team around him improved, we only now got to see the potential Hurts really had all along. Having AJ Brown or a good O-line doesn't diminish his achievements, it only shows us what his achievements can be.

 

In the same way, Allen's achievements are diminished because we got Diggs. If our O-line suddenly improves & we win a SB, is that a knock on Allen? No. It just shows what he's capable of when given the proper foundation for success.

 

/rant

[Fan in Chicago]

2 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

I agree but wasn't Hurts very good when he got inserted into the starting line up the previous season? That team wasn't playing nearly as good either. 

No he wasn't very good the previous season

[Mikie2times]

1 hour ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

I believe you are mistaken.  I've searched and could not find anything about a new rule to ban the "tush- push".

I thought they moved forward with the ban, but it appears not....silly in my opinion. You can get 2-3 yards every time with that play. Probably in the spirit of the game given the games roots, but not the modern version. Not in the spirit of the game IMO. 

[Bill from NYC]

9 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

 

dude got benched for Tua and a lot of guys would sulk and blame other people. He was a great teammate, helped them win a championship, and nearly won at a Heisman at Oklahoma. 
 

every thing you hear about him is how great of guy he is and how hard of a worker. He has gotten better ever year. He is so much like Allen, it’s scary. The Eagles would also kill teams by halftime so his stats could have been even better. In the garbage nfc, the Eagles have as good of shot to win the SB as any team in the nfl and hurts is a major reason why. 

Why are so hung up on the Alabama thing? He transferred, completed nearly 70% of his passes, and had 32 tds at Oklahoma. How were Joe Burrows stats at Ohio State before he played with one of the greatest receiver groups in college football history at LSU?

 

some guys just get better. 

I don't think that anybody who knows anything about JH would question his great attitude, dedication, intelligence, or the fact that he is talented.

 

As far as the "Alabama thing," c'mon CB! The Big 12 is a MUCH easier conference to play in. This is beyond question. Much of the reason for this is weaker defenses. Don't get me wrong; he made the smart move. He was not going to start over Tua because (at least at the time if not currently), Tua was a clearly superior passer.

 

I am thrilled that he got to the SB and wish he would have won it. He took the benching in the title game SO well that he deserves success. He is a good man and I am glad that he plays in ideal circumstances at Philly.

[Mikie2times]

1 minute ago, Bill from NYC said:

I don't think that anybody who knows anything about JH would question his great attitude, dedication, intelligence, or the fact that he is talented.

 

As far as the "Alabama thing," c'mon CB! The Big 12 is a MUCH easier conference to play in. This is beyond question. Much of the reason for this is weaker defenses. Don't get me wrong; he made the smart move. He was not going to start over Tua because (at least at the time if not currently), Tua was a clearly superior passer.

 

I am thrilled that he got to the SB and wish he would have won it. He took the benching in the title game SO well that he deserves success. He is a good man and I am glad that he plays in ideal circumstances at Philly.

Does the conference even matter? I understand how dominant the SEC is but look at the players

 

Mahomes=> Big 12

Allen=> Mountain West

Burrow=> Big 10 to SEC

Lawrence=> ACC

Hurts=> Big 12 to SEC

Herbert=> Pac 12

Jackson=> ACC

 

If the SEC didn't pull in a couple Big 10 and Big12 transfers, they would be pulling a goose egg as far as NFL relevant QB's. Well, Prescott was all Miss. St. but you get the point. Conference seems to matter very little. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 hour ago, Mikie2times said:

I thought they moved forward with the ban, but it appears not....silly in my opinion. You can get 2-3 yards every time with that play. Probably in the spirit of the game given the games roots, but not the modern version. Not in the spirit of the game IMO. 

I like it. But it is frustrating if you are on the other end of it. 
 

they will probably come up with a player safety excuse in a year or two to ban it. But then what will they do about o-lineman pushing piles which has been going on for decades? 

[BADOLBILZ]

7 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Fair points but Joe Burrow threw for less yards and more ints than tds, scoring less points (with better receivers imo) against the same cbs in the afc title game. Hurts outplayed the best qb in football in the SB

 

He definitely needs to prove it again but based on how he has improved every year, I have no reason to doubt him. 

Bills fans get mad that Josh Allen doesn’t get enough credit so they just trash every other young qb. It’s weird. 

 

 

Like I said........with THAT great protection that Hurts gets.   And remember that prior to narrowly being defeated in Arrowhead in the AFCCG, Joe Burrow had beaten Mahomes the first 3 times  they met despite terrible protection.    Hurts wouldn't beat Mahomes once out of 4 times behind that Bengals OL.    We wouldn't even be having this discussion.   Hurts isn't a slouch but is still largely a product of the system, IMO.  The Eagles have even specialized in creating QB's who look like HOF'ers one year and then descend to earth.    Like Nick Foles utterly outrageous 27 TD 2 INT season.   Or Carson Wentz 3rd place MVP season.   They are a special organization and Howie Roseman is the best GM in the business.   Maybe Hurts transcends that but I have significant doubts.

[90sBills]

2 hours ago, BigDingus said:

I think the board is making the same mistake they always do when we see the fan & media praise another QB is getting, and think it's at the expense of OUR guy.

 

In response, we underrate these guys & cherry pick things to discredit them with.

 

Hurts may have a better line, but that's not an indictment on him, it's credit to his front office for assembling a better team. We all thought Tua was a joke, then he suddenly played great when he was surrounded by more great players (and not concussed). 

 

People piled on Allen after his rookie year, but then a concerted effort was made to improve his WRs bringing in Beasley & Brown, followed by Diggs the next year. Suddenly, Allen goes off in 2020.... but should Ravens fans look at the Madden ratings of his WRs & say Allen deserves less credit than Lamar because his WRs were better?

 

When I see QBs have great seasons after significant roster upgrades, it just tells me they had more potential than I otherwise gave them credit for. Despite what people think, a bad QB isn't going to magically be great just because the rest of the team is great...

 

They can win games, sure, but it'll be clear who deserves the bulk of the credit. The 49ers are a great team, but the QB position isn't the driving factor. The Trent Dilfer Ravens won a SB, but we all know who gets the credit. Hurts is the opposite of that. Even though the team around him improved, we only now got to see the potential Hurts really had all along. Having AJ Brown or a good O-line doesn't diminish his achievements, it only shows us what his achievements can be.

 

In the same way, Allen's achievements are diminished because we got Diggs. If our O-line suddenly improves & we win a SB, is that a knock on Allen? No. It just shows what he's capable of when given the proper foundation for success.

 

/rant

This is too much truth for a lot of people on here to accept. Only Allen’s shortcomings can be excused by not having enough talent around him. He can’t do everything by himself. However, all other qbs must do it by themselves or they’re not considered elite because the teams around them are great.

 

Most will tell you that Allen needs a great Oline, great #1 AND #2 receivers and he’ll finally get to a superbowl. Yet when a team like Philly gives their qb those things and got to a superbowl they’d say he’s not elite because of those things. Mind boggling.