PFF Top 50 Players for 2023 - Josh Allen at 12, Diggs at 24

[LABILLBACKER]

12 hours ago, Process said:

It would be very difficult to make a worse list than this, lol

 

 

I laughed when I saw Fred Warner basically as good as Josh.

[GoBills808]

Just now, PBF81 said:

 

So "wins" are predicated entirely upon the play of the QB insofar as ANY/A goes in your mind then?  

 

Question, is it possible for a QB to be good but the team not win as much as a team with a QB that isn't quite as good?  If so, then why?  

 

 

😂😂No. That's not what 'correlated' means

 

How about you tell me those passing metrics you like so much...I'm pretty sure I know which ones you're referring to lol

[PBF81]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

😂😂No. That's not what 'correlated' means

 

How about you tell me those passing metrics you like so much...I'm pretty sure I know which ones you're referring to lol

 

Let's end this.  It's going nowhere.  

 

 

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

😂😂No. That's not what 'correlated' means

 

How about you tell me those passing metrics you like so much...I'm pretty sure I know which ones you're referring to lol

 

I will say this, IMO Burrow is the better pure passer.  Allen's overall athletic abilities are better as are his non-passing contributions.  

 

I suppose which is better, and they're different by two whopping irrelevant spots in this survey, is up to the circumstances of the play of the teams that they'd be on.  Since Beane can't draft, we need Allen.  Put Allen on Cincy and IMO he's even better than he is now.  Not sure how good Burrow would be here, but guessing not as good as Allen.  

 

But in line with that, if I had to guess today whose career, which of those two that is, will last longer, I'd put all my money on Burrow in a NY second.  

 

 

[GoBills808]

Yes let's

 

It wasn't going to end well for you

[Mikie2times]

39 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Let's end this.  It's going nowhere.  

 

 

 

I will say this, IMO Burrow is the better pure passer.  Allen's overall athletic abilities are better as are his non-passing contributions.  

 

I suppose which is better, and they're different by two whopping irrelevant spots in this survey, is up to the circumstances of the play of the teams that they'd be on.  Since Beane can't draft, we need Allen.  Put Allen on Cincy and IMO he's even better than he is now.  Not sure how good Burrow would be here, but guessing not as good as Allen.  

 

But in line with that, if I had to guess today whose career, which of those two that is, will last longer, I'd put all my money on Burrow in a NY second.  

 

 

This pretty much. As much as they like to say Burrow couldn't do what Josh has done (I believe that to be the case). As much as they like to mock Burrow for his 1 TD and 200 yard playoff games. Josh is worse when he is bad. Far worse. Brett Favre only won one Super Bowl. If Josh is to become what many on this board want he needs to figure out a way to be more consistent. His lows can't be like the Bengals in 2022 or 2020 Chiefs playoff games. Otherwise his 2021 Patriots/Chiefs games really don't matter. In the playoffs it just takes one Favre like day and its done. Consistency is not Allen's friend and it never has been. 

Edited July 22, 2023 by Mikie2times

[PBF81]

2 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

This pretty much. As much as they like to say Burrow couldn't do what Josh has done (I believe that to be the case). As much as they like to mock Burrow for his 1 TD and 200 yard playoff games. Josh is worse when he is bad. Far worse. Brett Favre only sniffed one Super Bowl. If Josh is to become what many on this board want he needs to figure out a way to be more consistent. His lows can't be like the Bengals in 2022 or 2020 Chiefs playoff games. Otherwise his 2021 Patriots/Chiefs games really don't matter. In the playoffs it just takes one Favre like day and its done. Consistency is not Allen's friend and it never has been. 

 

Roger that on consistency.  It certainly hasn't been his friend.  

 

 

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

The ones that Burrow is better than, the ones typically used to valuate QBs.  Just look at 'em, if they're better than Josh's, those are the ones I'm referring to.  

 

 

Must not be looking at his playoff stats.

19 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

This pretty much. As much as they like to say Burrow couldn't do what Josh has done (I believe that to be the case). As much as they like to mock Burrow for his 1 TD and 200 yard playoff games. Josh is worse when he is bad. Far worse. Brett Favre only won one Super Bowl. If Josh is to become what many on this board want he needs to figure out a way to be more consistent. His lows can't be like the Bengals in 2022 or 2020 Chiefs playoff games. Otherwise his 2021 Patriots/Chiefs games really don't matter. In the playoffs it just takes one Favre like day and its done. Consistency is not Allen's friend and it never has been. 

 

Really? Did you watch the Steeler game on opening night where Burrow threw 4 INTs and they lost in OT to a team they had no business losing to?

[Mikie2times]

5 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Must not be looking at his playoff stats.

 

In Allen's 4 lowest rating playoff games we averaged 17.5 vs 23 for the Bengals. 

 

In Burrows top 3 games they averaged 24.3 while Allen averaged 36.6. The delta on the high vs low for the Bengals is -1.3 vs -19.1

 

How is this place so blinded by this? Allen is better against worse. Better when good. Far worse against better. Far worse when bad. 

 

The averages don't matter when you need to win 3-4 straight against the best. Who cares that you dropped 30+ on Miami and the Patriots?

 

 

 

 

 

[Mikie2times]

19 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Must not be looking at his playoff stats.

 

Really? Did you watch the Steeler game on opening night where Burrow threw 4 INTs and they lost in OT to a team they had no business losing to?

I get that one confused with the Bills game in the opener the year before 

[PBF81]

19 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Must not be looking at his playoff stats.

 

Since you brought it up, there too Burrow's been far more consistent.  

 

He's also been to a Super Bowl in his 2nd season.  Josh hasn't been in five.  

 

Just sayin'.  

 

 

[Mikie2times]

4 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Since you brought it up, there too Burrow's been far more consistent.  

 

He's also been to a Super Bowl in his 2nd season.  Josh hasn't been in five.  

 

Just sayin'.  

 

 

If you asked a Chiefs fan who do they fear. You think any chance exists they’re saying us? 
 

Doesn’t that say enough?

[GoBills808]

Qbwinz and Chiefs fans opinions😂😂

 

The defense rests 

[BeavercreekBillsFan]

2 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I laughed when I saw Fred Warner basically as good as Josh.

Warner is the best LB in football and it’s laughably not close. He’s so far ahead of his peers. On a path to a good jacket. Unless you’re just weighting QBs overall as higher then I don’t know why Warner being so high is funny. 

[Big Turk]

6 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

Since you brought it up, there too Burrow's been far more consistent.  

 

He's also been to a Super Bowl in his 2nd season.  Josh hasn't been in five.  

 

Just sayin'.  

 

 

 

Yeah consistently not the reason they are winning. The defense and Special teams have carried his ass.

 

Allen had the highest QB Rating in NFL history prior to the Bengal game in the playoffs and has thrown 17 TD to 4 INTs versus Burrow who has 9 TDs to 7 INTs.

 

You can attempt to spin it however you want, Allen has been far better im the playoffs and it's not even close. Especially to people who actually watch the games and don't try to spin stats to their preconceived bias notions.

6 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

I get that one confused with the Bills game in the opener the year before 

 

Yeah because Allen was back there punting too right?

6 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

If you asked a Chiefs fan who do they fear. You think any chance exists they’re saying us? 
 

Doesn’t that say enough?

 

Yeah, considering we should have beaten them 3 times in a row in Arrowhead if the D and special teams could have gotten their act together.

 

I actually think there is a pretty high chance.

Edited July 22, 2023 by Big Turk

[PBF81]

2 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

Yeah consistently not the reason they are winning. The defense and Special teams have carried his ass.

 

Allen had the highest QB Rating in NFL history prior to the Bengal game in the playoffs and has thrown 17 TD to 4 INTs versus Burrow who has 9 TDs to 7 INTs.

 

You can attempt to spin it however you want, Allen has been far better im the playoffs and it's not even close. Especially to people who actually watch the games and don't try to spin stats to their preconceived bias notions.

 

Overreaction much?

 

We're talking two spots apart, for well over a thousand players.

 

If you're ardent position were so valid, others wouldn't have rated Burrow higher.

 

Who cares, it's an idiotic poll.  

 

 

10 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Yes let's

 

It wasn't going to end well for you

 

Take things personally do ya?

 

Easy chief! 

 

Life's too short ...

 

Besides, I thought the defense had rested.  🤔🧐😎

 

 

Edited July 22, 2023 by PBF81

[PBF81]

9 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

The averages don't matter when you need to win 3-4 straight against the best. Who cares that you dropped 30+ on Miami and the Patriots?

 

In fairness, I'm not going to blame Allen for most of our playoff losses, particularly in '21.  It's our defense that sucks rhino weenie on the playoffs.  

 

I put that on coaching.  

 

But agree that we're not likely to win three or four straight in the playoffs for that reason.  

 

 

Edited July 22, 2023 by PBF81

[Since1981]

It’s hard to see almost any one WR OL DL ahead of Burrows/Allen.
 

i get that this isn’t a team MVP list. But if you were picking your team from pure scratch, Burrow/Allen over any WR OL DL

[CincyBillsFan]

59 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

In fairness, I'm not going to blame Allen for most of our playoff losses, particularly in '21.  It's our defense that sucks rhino weenie on the playoffs.  

 

Gee that's very fair of you not to blame Allen for the loss to KC in 2021!

 

[machine gun kelly]

On 7/20/2023 at 4:40 PM, Robert James said:

I'm guessing Mahomes, Burrow, and Jalen Hurts are all ranked ahead of him.  They've got to be in the top 50.

Allen is ahead of Hurtz.  Allen was 3rd with Burrow and Mahomes above.

[PBF81]

57 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Gee that's very fair of you not to blame Allen for the loss to KC in 2021!

 

Yeah, thanks!  

 

Allow me to ask, whom do you blame?  Because when I put the blame where it belongs, it seems to go over about as well as black person at a KKK rally.  

 

And how about Davis, who's outperformed Diggs in the playoffs?  What's your take there?   Yeah yeah, we all know, Davis wouldn't have done what he did if Diggs weren't on the team, so Diggs gets credit for Davis' catches.  Or something different?  

 

I'm curious whether you're consistent.  

 

Otherwise, since my comments were general in nature, how about the other three playoff losses, was Allen anything to blame for those, the '20 season KC loss, the '19 season Texans loss, or the Bengals loss this past season?   Or was he guilt-free there too?  

 

As to the topic of this thread, and in light of what you said, take away the two games of the '21 playoffs and to be more than fair, Allen's other 6 playoff games are mediocre tops!  

 

6 games otherwise, 8 TDs (1-1/4 TD/game for the math challenged), 6 TOs, and only one game with a rating better than average for those 6 games and an 85.0 rating for the 6 games aggregately.  He had more TDs in the two playoff games in '21 than he did in his other 6, demonstrating massive inconsistencey.  That's poor and for reference purposes, this past season would have ranked 26th in the league and in Derek Carr, Justin Fields, Mac Jones, and Russell Wilson category.  

 

Just sayin' 

 

And I'm one of Allen's biggest apologists and defenders.  

 

 

 

 

Edited July 22, 2023 by PBF81