Jags don't want Travis

[MadBuffaloDisease]

just listened to pat kirwan during lunch...you can't get much more connected than this guy, and he continues to think that buffalo can get a 3rd (w/ possible conversion to a 2nd) for henry from the titans or some other squad.

 

this is just a waiting game.  if TD doesn't flinch, the bills will get fair value.

I agree. Take it all the way into pre-season if you have to do so. Releasing him would be stupid because at worst, you keep him as the 3rd RB, let him walk in FA, and recoup a (decent) comp pick in 2007. And maybe just MAYBE he agrees to play from the get-go and is a great backup RB for this season for the Bills. But someone will be desperate for a RB, just wait.

[Bill from NYC]

I agree.  Take it all the way into pre-season if you have to do so.  Releasing him would be stupid because at worst, you keep him as the 3rd RB, let him walk in FA, and recoup a (decent) comp pick in 2007.  And maybe just MAYBE he agrees to play from the get-go and is a great backup RB for this season for the Bills.  But someone will be desperate for a RB, just wait.

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If he is 3rd string, or 2nd for that matter, the Bills would get ZERO compensation for him if he leaves via free agency.

Teams DO NOT get a pick merely because a second stringer leaves town as a UFA.

Watch and see how little we get for losing Jennings and Williams, let alone a backup that we can't even unload.

[d_wag]

If he is 3rd string, or 2nd for that matter, the Bills would get ZERO compensation for him if he leaves via free agency.

Teams DO NOT get a pick merely because a second stringer leaves town as a UFA.

Watch and see how little we get for losing Jennings and Williams, let alone a backup that we can't even unload.

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the equation for determing draft pick compenstation includes playing time and production in the lost players first year with his new club.......if henry goes elsewhere, ends up as a starter, and produces a good season, the bills will be well compensated for that.........

 

if jennings and williams stay healthy next year we will receive very good picks.........KC received a 3rd rounder in '05 due to the loss of john tait.......

[Bill from NYC]

the equation for determing draft pick compenstation includes playing time and production in the lost players first year with his new club.......if henry goes elsewhere, ends up as a starter, and produces a good season, the bills will be well compensated for that.........

 

if jennings and williams stay healthy next year we will receive very good picks.........KC received a 3rd rounder in '05 due to the loss of john tait.......

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Really? What did we get for Winfield?

[d_wag]

Really? What did we get for Winfield?

349028[/snapback]

 

offset by the signings of villarrial and vincent.......we haven't signed jack this off-season.........

[VABills]

offset by the signings of villarrial and vincent.......we haven't signed jack this off-season.........

349038[/snapback]

Bennie Anderson?

Holcomb?

[d_wag]

Bennie Anderson?

Holcomb?

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like i said.........

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

Name a few.  And please enlighten us with their difficulty level and importance in the game.

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In terms of naming a few games and the ircumstances surrounding the reed droppsies in 2003, this actually can be researched but it will be time consuming as there is not spoon-fed stat on drops by a player.

 

Nevertheless, one could research this by:

 

1. Finding the spoonfed stat of receptions in 2003 and even per game receptions for Reed.

2. Checking a subjective but more immediate game description on the billsdaily site for 2003 games.

 

My general recollection without the specific stats to back it up are:

 

A. Reed had an impressive pre-season and we went into 2003 with confidence that TD had made a great move by letting PP go and getting a 1st for this FA and Reed was a great replacement prospect.

B. Reed did disappoint in terms of production in 2003 (and the whole O imploded) as Moulds got hurt and we simply did not have WR weaponry.

C. Reed did drop some key catches early on as happens to all WRs sometime, but it seemed to really get in his head as he had the added pressure of stapping up to replace a 94 catch guy. he improved over the course of the season and the droppsies went away but he never was a threat to the opposing D and we spent a #1 on Evans because we had a clear need for a #2 WR.

 

I am happy to do some of this time consuming research with you. If you are certain that you are right and I am wrong about Reed and YOU judge this issue to be of enough importance I am happy to split the research with you.

 

I sugggest we split the first two games of 2003 look at Reed's work looking at the old NFL Gamebooks which should be available and the old BillsDaily write ups which should also be available if you are confident enough in your view to to go ahead with this. We can post the results as we find them game by game and thus niether of us would go on this wild goose chase without the other.

 

Let me know if you want to do the work with me or if not I will just assume my view of Reed not cutting the mustard in 2003 is generally not controverted.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

Really? What did we get for Winfield?

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As piointed out above no compensation is given for a specific player, but this black-box calculation is done for the entire year amalgamating gains and losses to FA together, thus it was judged that the loss of AW was offset by our gains from FA through the play of Villarial and Vincent.

 

The one item i would add also is that in addition to the level of play in their first year, the contract they signed to get them is also taken into account. The Vikes giving a huge deal to AW to buy him out from under the noses of the Jets made me think we would get some compensation. However when factoring in the to the fastidious dealmaking of TD, but alas and alack this did not happen.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

>>>>Henry struggled with blitz pick-up initially as most first year players (even WM) seem to do. However, this issue went away as he became a vet.<<<<

 

FFS, you know how much I respect and look forward to your posts, but the above is simply flat out wrong.

He is a horrid blocker. Even if he had the brain to learn HOW to pick up a blitz, he seems to lack the desire to do so.

Sacks dropped in half as soon as he was benched.

You are WAY over the edge here.

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I stated my sense of why sacks dropped in total for the Bills in conjunction with the general use of WM as RB versus TH. The better teaching of JMac, the establishment by TC of even Bledsoe as a threat to run and to fake, and WM's outside threat (much better than TH's) rather than his blitz pick-up ability (not hugely different from TH's from what I saw) were the bigger factors in the reduction of sacks by the Bills.

 

In fact, if you want to look game by game, I think in 1 of the 4 games Henry started there were a ton of sacks but actuallyit was one of the games he cramped up and WM got a lot time so tracing these sacks to TH being in and WM being better at blitz pick-up is not supported by the reality. One of the other games which TH started before he was benched due to W being a better runner actially sae the Bills only give up 1 sack in this losing cause. Again the facts do not support a day and night difference on blitz pick-up between the two.

[OGTEleven]

In terms of naming a few games and the ircumstances surrounding the reed droppsies in 2003, this actually can be researched but it will be time consuming as there is not spoon-fed stat on drops by a player.

 

Nevertheless, one could research this by:

 

1. Finding the spoonfed stat of receptions in 2003 and even per game receptions for Reed.

2. Checking a subjective but more immediate game description on the billsdaily site for 2003 games.

 

My general recollection without the specific stats to back it up are:

 

A. Reed had an impressive pre-season and we went into 2003 with confidence that TD had made a great move by letting PP go and getting a 1st for this FA and Reed was a great replacement prospect.

B. Reed did disappoint in terms of production in 2003 (and the whole O imploded) as Moulds got hurt and we simply did not have WR weaponry.

C. Reed did drop some key catches early on as happens to all WRs sometime, but it seemed to really get in his head as he had the added pressure of stapping up to replace a 94 catch guy.  he improved over the course of the season and the droppsies went away but he never was a threat to the opposing D and we spent a #1 on Evans because we had a clear need for a #2 WR.

 

I am happy to do some of this time consuming research with you.  If you are certain that you are right and I am wrong about Reed and YOU judge this issue to be of enough importance I am happy to split the research with you.

 

I sugggest we split the first two games of 2003 look at Reed's work looking at the old NFL Gamebooks which should be available and the old BillsDaily write ups which should also be available if you are confident enough in your view to to go ahead with this. We can post the results as we find them game by game and thus niether of us would go on this wild goose chase without the other.

 

Let me know if you want to do the work with me or if not I will just assume my view of Reed not cutting the mustard in 2003 is generally not controverted.

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Your original post stated that Reed's drops were "notable and recurrent". I took notable to mean you would remember them. Do the research if you want. I just asked the question, you were the one that made the statement.

 

Here's a head start:

 

He dropped a flea flicker that should have been caught in a game we won 31-0. There was another game (at home) where he dropped a catchable but tough ball in the red zone. It was over the middle of the field. It might have gone for 6. It was far from an easy catch, but it would not have made the "world's greatest catch" video reel if he made it. After that it has been a parade of naysayers. Most of their statements are like yours. I haven't seen any with specifics. I also didn't see Bledsoe hit too many middle of the field throws to anyone except for he occasional Campbell circus catch.

[respk]

Looks like Tenny is the only one looking at Travis and they are only offering a 5th or 6th. Get it done TD.

348681[/snapback]

 

 

I'm glad you're not negotiating any deals. A good negotiator will know when to hang on and when to do the deal. Now is not the time, unless the deal is right, to move Henry. There are hundreds of possibility oppotunities to trade Henry before the season starts. Every time a 1st string running back on another team runs a play in every practice is an opportunity for an injury and a team to come knocking on the door. If henry is still on the team by the trade deadline, then maybe Danohoe has made the wrong move. Until then he is absolutely right to hang on to him.