Top 10 offensive coordinators as per PFF

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, gjv said:

I think you are splitting hairs. What criteria would you use to rate the OC's in 2022?

I would fund ways to measure who's offenses are most creative.  I would find coordinators who turned around bad offenses.  I would find coordinators who manage thei assistants well.  

 

Again, I wouldn't say that Dorsey is a good coordinator just because he didn't screw up the good offense he inherited. He didn't make it all that different or better, so far as I can see.  And when offense stalled late in the season, he didn't seem to have answers. 

 

What is it that actually was good at?  

 

The fact is that I don't know, and I don't think many people here know, what it takes to be a good coordinator.  

[Shaw66]

I mean, you want to talk about best qbs?  Best rbs?  Great

  At least you have some stats to look at.

 

Best offensive guards?  Tougher to find relevant stats.  PFF tries to do it, bit PFF is really suspect.

 

What stats do you look at to evaluate OCs.  You don't see any highlight reels of OCs.  No replays.  And they do their jobs during the week, and we don't see them do it.  

 

So, exactly how do we know who's good at it and who isn't?

 

We know by seeing how they do over time. Their head coaches know, because they see the OC every day, but the HCs aren't telling us who's good and who isn't.  

[Beck Water]

24 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

You missed my point.  I was responding to someone who said that if the Bills have a top offense, then Dorsey must be a top coordinator.   I said if that's how you measure top coordinator, then that's a list of the coordinators of the to9p offenses.  I didn't say that this guy, whoever he is, made his list that way.  

 

Apologies, I did miss your point.

[boyst]

On 7/13/2023 at 7:01 PM, BillsfaninSB said:

Jim Bob Cooter?  Is that a real person or prank?

He's been a hot coordinator for a while. Some have said he isn't going to be a HC because his name. No joke. 

[Thurman#1]

On 7/14/2023 at 7:46 AM, DJB said:

 

 

 

Can't get there on Twitter. Tried five times and keep getting tech messages.

 

Love seeing that.

 

 

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

I would fund ways to measure who's offenses are most creative.  I would find coordinators who turned around bad offenses.  I would find coordinators who manage thei assistants well.  

 

Again, I wouldn't say that Dorsey is a good coordinator just because he didn't screw up the good offense he inherited. He didn't make it all that different or better, so far as I can see.  And when offense stalled late in the season, he didn't seem to have answers. 

 

What is it that actually was good at?  

 

The fact is that I don't know, and I don't think many people here know, what it takes to be a good coordinator.  

 

 

It's a good point.

 

And more, our sample size on Dorsey is still really small. 

 

At the very least he still has a lot to prove. And you're right that coordinator impact is really really hard to measure.

[hondo in seattle]

On 7/13/2023 at 4:25 PM, LVGrown said:

Agreed. How many first time coordinators can say in their first season (even getting handed the keys to a top 5 offense) they came in at 13-3 with a playoff win and one of the highest scoring offenses in the NFL. I'm sure they exist, but few and far between. 

 

Is there room for improvement? Of course, it's literally this dudes first time in the role, give him a break. 

 

I'm usually an empirical kind of guy.  Facts sway me.  But something about Dorsey's performance last year - particularly during the second half of the season (yes, when Josh was playing hurt) - that worried me.  His game planning and play calling seemed off...  predictable...  unimaginative.  

 

I'm not ready to condemn the guy but I'd have trouble rating him in the Top Ten.  Let's see what he does this year. 

 

I hope my misgivings are wrong and he coaches the offense to a stupendous SB victory.  

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, boyst said:

He's been a hot coordinator for a while. Some have said he isn't going to be a HC because his name. No joke. 

 

He hasn't even been a coordinator for a while. He got the Lions OC job mid season, I think when Joe Lombardi was fired if I have my timing right. Then his first full season in charge Matt Stafford produced on of his best Lions seasons and they made the playoffs. However, performance declined and he was let go when Jim Caldwell was fired. He has been a position coach and offensive assistant in the 4 or 5 years since until Shane Steichen hired him this spring to be Colts OC. 

 

But you are right that after that good year he had with Stafford when no HC interviews were forthcoming there was a little bit of "is it because of his name?" chatter. I don't think it was personally. It was because of sample size. 

[Buffalo716]

6 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I mean, you want to talk about best qbs?  Best rbs?  Great

  At least you have some stats to look at.

 

Best offensive guards?  Tougher to find relevant stats.  PFF tries to do it, bit PFF is really suspect.

 

What stats do you look at to evaluate OCs.  You don't see any highlight reels of OCs.  No replays.  And they do their jobs during the week, and we don't see them do it.  

 

So, exactly how do we know who's good at it and who isn't?

 

We know by seeing how they do over time. Their head coaches know, because they see the OC every day, but the HCs aren't telling us who's good and who isn't.  

 Any coordinator position is tough to judge 

 

we are taking about the highest in there profession In the world…

 

I don’t like talking ***** about coaches because I’ve been in the game for so long… People like my opinion here… But I would kill for any of the positions in the league

There are so many good coaches at the high school , junior college , division three , division two and division one levels it’s insane 

 

And 99% will bust their ass for 30 years and never reach the big time… I spent time around David Culley and knew the information he brought to the game… super high level 

 

Yet people here bashed him and said he was un qualified… But I knew he would be an NFL head coach one day and said the same here… And I was laughed at

 

But I knew the type of coach he was and the Xs and Os he can bring it to the game… And It didn’t surprise me he was one of 32 in the world to be called an NFL head coach

 

It’s a tough fraternity and coaches stick together… And everybody knows who actually knows the goods

 

It’s why I don’t want to get rid of McDermott for an unknown… he is a very smart head coach And I am willing to ride with him because I think he will get us a Lombardi 

 

coach bashing is the easiest thing to do… but it doesn’t always turn out for the best when you get rid of them

Edited July 15, 2023 by Buffalo716

[Shaw66]

4 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

 Any coordinator position is tough to judge 

 

we are taking about the highest in there profession In the world…

 

I don’t like talking ***** about coaches because I’ve been in the game for so long… People like my opinion here… But I would kill for any of the positions in the league

There are so many good coaches at the high school , junior college , division three , division two and division one levels it’s insane 

 

And 99% will bust their ass for 30 years and never reach the big time… I spent time around David Culley and knew the information he brought to the game… super high level 

 

Yet people here bashed him and said he was un qualified… But I knew he would be an NFL head coach one day and said the same here… And I was laughed at

 

But I knew the type of coach he was and the Xs and Os he can bring it to the game… And It didn’t surprise me he was one of 32 in the world to be called an NFL head coach

 

It’s a tough fraternity and coaches stick together… And everybody knows who actually knows the goods

 

It’s why I don’t want to get rid of McDermott for an unknown… he is a very smart head coach And I am willing to ride with him because I think he will get us a Lombardi 

 

coach bashing is the easiest thing to do… but it doesn’t always turn out for the best when you get rid of them

Well put.  Especially the part about, essentially, it takes one to know one.  

 

Great stuff.

 

Thanks.

[boyst]

11 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He hasn't even been a coordinator for a while. He got the Lions OC job mid season, I think when Joe Lombardi was fired if I have my timing right. Then his first full season in charge Matt Stafford produced on of his best Lions seasons and they made the playoffs. However, performance declined and he was let go when Jim Caldwell was fired. He has been a position coach and offensive assistant in the 4 or 5 years since until Shane Steichen hired him this spring to be Colts OC. 

 

But you are right that after that good year he had with Stafford when no HC interviews were forthcoming there was a little bit of "is it because of his name?" chatter. I don't think it was personally. It was because of sample size. 

Hard to believe that was that long ago

[Buffalo716]

10 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Well put.  Especially the part about, essentially, it takes one to know one.  

 

Great stuff.

 

Thanks.

Appreciate it Shaw and always love your Rockpile review

 

And yes that’s basically a part I was alluding at… All the coaches know who actually has the goods and who doesn’t

[MJS]

21 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I mean, you want to talk about best qbs?  Best rbs?  Great

  At least you have some stats to look at.

 

Best offensive guards?  Tougher to find relevant stats.  PFF tries to do it, bit PFF is really suspect.

 

What stats do you look at to evaluate OCs.  You don't see any highlight reels of OCs.  No replays.  And they do their jobs during the week, and we don't see them do it.  

 

So, exactly how do we know who's good at it and who isn't?

 

We know by seeing how they do over time. Their head coaches know, because they see the OC every day, but the HCs aren't telling us who's good and who isn't.  

So why are you and others judging Dorsey so harshly? You admit that there isn't really a way to know. All we can go on is offensive stats, really.

[Shaw66]

5 hours ago, MJS said:

So why are you and others judging Dorsey so harshly? You admit that there isn't really a way to know. All we can go on is offensive stats, really.

I'm not judging him harshly.  I don't know how good he is at his job.  I do think that his offense became less effective down the stretch,and that shouldn't happen to a good coordinator.  But that could have happened for a lot of reasons, like oline, Josh's elbow.  And Dorsey was a rookie.

 

And, as I said, getting the same results as the year before doesn't mean he's good.  No one thinks a rookie OC who inherits a bad offense and gets the same results as the year before is a good coordinator.  

 

McDermott know how good he is and what his potential, but I can't tell.

Edited July 16, 2023 by Shaw66

[Buffalo716]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I'm not judging him harshly.  I don't know how good he is at his job.  I do think that his offense became less effective down the stretch,and that shouldn't happen to a good coordinator.  But that could have happened for a lot of reasons, like oline, Josh's elbow.  And Dorsey was a rookie.

 

And, as I said, getting the same results as the year before doesn't mean he's good.  No one thinks a rookie OC who inherits a bad offense and gets the same results as the year before is a good coordinator.  

 

McDermott know how good he is and what his potential, but I can't tell.

Yea so Dorsey as a rookie coordinator gets a small pass 

 

experience will help every coordinator… but he did get more predictable as the season went on …

 

Did his lack of experience catch up? Probably 

 

does he have the ability to go deeper into the book and get us out of Jams with playcalls? Yes

 

but he has to trust his players to execute .. and get more unpredictable 

Edited July 16, 2023 by Buffalo716

[LABILLBACKER]

On 7/14/2023 at 5:41 PM, Shaw66 said:

I would fund ways to measure who's offenses are most creative.  I would find coordinators who turned around bad offenses.  I would find coordinators who manage thei assistants well.  

 

Again, I wouldn't say that Dorsey is a good coordinator just because he didn't screw up the good offense he inherited. He didn't make it all that different or better, so far as I can see.  And when offense stalled late in the season, he didn't seem to have answers. 

 

What is it that actually was good at?  

 

The fact is that I don't know, and I don't think many people here know, what it takes to be a good coordinator.  

That's a fantastic and accurate way of describing Ken's first year. It was like a Daboll intern just running it back while he hangs on.  I saw nothing innovative from his plays or schemes. It was basically Josh & Stefon doing the heavy lifting while the OL/ Run game struggled.  The offense albeit functional statistically, lacked creativity and an identity. 

[Sierra Foothills]

On 7/14/2023 at 5:44 AM, Draconator said:

Jim Bob Cooter sounds like he had 25 kids and a reality TV show

 

He was previously the Robertson family's friend in Duck Dynasty.

 

On 7/14/2023 at 6:30 PM, boyst said:

He's been a hot coordinator for a while. Some have said he isn't going to be a HC because his name. No joke. 

 

It's a results-oriented business. If you can coordinate a successful offense for a few seasons it doesn't matter if your name is Lieutenant Uhura.

 

Cooter ultimately didn't have the track record... at least according to my tricorder.

 

[CoudyBills]

On 7/13/2023 at 6:58 PM, HereComesTheReignAgain said:

You mean other than the fact that the Bills had one of the best offenses in the NFL last year?  

1st sentence

[GunnerBill]

On 7/15/2023 at 8:04 AM, Buffalo716 said:

 

coach bashing is the easiest thing to do… but it doesn’t always turn out for the best when you get rid of them

 

Yep and it is even more prevalent now in many sports. I coached soccer at a pretty good semi-professional level in the UK for 7 years with a reasonable level of success. It is a different sport and obviously the NFL in particular is a different stratosphere in terms of attention... but at the same time I know the sacrifice it takes and I know that feeling of watching a human being on a field make a mistake in a game that undermines all the work you put in that week. The clubs I coached only had a few hundred fans but I've stood on a sideline on a wet, dark, Saturday afternoon in November with people shouting abuse at me and being able to hear very clearly every criticism. I know the level of resilience it takes. 

 

You are the figurehead and you take more flack than you should in most situations. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

What’s laughable about the Dorsey criticism is most of the criticism lines up with the Allen injury.

 

Whats even worse is most of the people criticizing Dorsey also believe WR and OL lack talent.

To me OC’s make their money in the redzone. They struggled in the redzone the first couple months of the season, mostly due to Allen’s struggles. Well they were really bad actually in the middle of the season. But were back to elite in the redzone by the end of the regular season.

 

It’s why I have no worries about Dorsey. He did that with terrible WR and OL play.

Edited July 17, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[LABILLBACKER]

On 7/13/2023 at 5:49 PM, HereComesTheReignAgain said:

They were #2 in yards per game and points per game in the entire league. What would Dorsey have had to accomplish to get some credit from you?  

Josh gets the credit and most of the heavy lifting.  I saw very little creativity last year from KD other than JA continuing to be a freak athletic cyborg.  Hopefully Dorsey finds an offensive identity and runs with it.  I'll stay optimistic. 

Edited July 19, 2023 by LABILLBACKER