Bills vs MIA NFLN Dec replay

[Doc Brown]

9 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Here's the issue I have with the Damar situation. Truthfully, we fans have no idea what kind of effect it had on the team. More specifically, we have no idea how it affected their play.

 

I truly believe the prior events had little negative effect on the outcome of the game. Of course, players and coaches are going to sing that narrative because it gives them an out. 

 

 

You're contradicting yourself.  If you admit you have no idea the impact it had on them how could you come to that conclusion? 

[eball]

17 hours ago, Billl said:

The Dolphins have a solid roster, and Tua can play when he’s healthy.  That team is no joke.

 

Sure they are.  They’re playing with a china doll at QB.

 

[newcam2012]

19 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

You're contradicting yourself.  If you admit you have no idea the impact it had on them how could you come to that conclusion? 

Partly true. That's my pointvof contention. 

 

It's all speculation. Folks on here are consistently banging the Damar negative effect as if its gospel and an absolute fact. It's not! I have elaborated on why I think otherwise. I think my points are pretty valid and reasonable. Feel free to disagree. 

[PrimeTime101]

38 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Here's the issue I have with the Damar situation. Truthfully, we fans have no idea what kind of effect it had on the team. More specifically, we have no idea how it affected their play. I'm sure it had some effects that could be seen as negative and positive. We don't know how it was processed by each player and if it had any effects on the outcome of the game. 

 

I absolutely think it negatively affected the team when Damar's status was in limbo.

 

However, come playoff time it was clear Damar was going to be ok. It seemed as though the fans and players were all relieved. The vibe I got was it's time to play football. Win it all for Damar. Signs everyone in the stadium. The vibe was electric and positive. After the gritty win vs Miami there was talk about fate. A special team. There was no talk about how the season's toll had negative consequences. Truthfully, I don't recall one person anywhere citing such a narrative. The theme was quite the contrary. The Damar situation wad being used as motivational and inspiring. 

 

That narrative changed to the negative after the Cinci loss. As I watched that game, I never once thought the team was losing because of the Damar negative effect. I remember saying what is the game plan? Didn't they learn anything from the dress rehearsal they had weeks before? I remember saying where is the pass rush? Where is Diggs? Fraizar, Dorsey, and McD are getting out classed and out coached. Burrow is elite. The Bills aren't in The same league as Cinci. Not once did I say oh man the team has nothing left. Too much trauma and distraction to overcome. Did you say that? 

 

I'd argue with much validity the Bills lost that game due to key injuries, lack of talent, poor coaching, and Cinci was the superior team. I truly believe the prior events had little negative effect on the outcome of the game. Of course, players and coaches are going to sing that narrative because it gives them an out. 

 

 

Damar being ok was great news, but the mental damage was done. No denying it. The Narrative never changed. it was already done. How many Times has a teamagte/friend/second family died on the field then revived? THAT is mental damage. To the last bolded I agree with till the end. They said "NOTHING LEFT IN THE TANK" Not as a negative but as a fact. 

We are not talking about Narratives now.. we just talking facts.

[newcam2012]

26 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

You're contradicting yourself.  If you admit you have no idea the impact it had on them how could you come to that conclusion? 

Based on what I elaborated in the post.

[PrimeTime101]

Just now, newcam2012 said:

Partly true. That's my pointvof contention. 

 

It's all speculation. Folks on here are consistently banging the Damar negative effect as if its gospel and an absolute fact. It's not! I have elaborated on why I think otherwise. I think my points are pretty valid and reasonable. Feel free to disagree. 

There is no speculation to how much it hurts mentally and how long it takes to get over something the NFL rarely sees before. Something a player never saw before. The damage is done. Facts. 

[Billl]

34 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Sure they are.  They’re playing with a china doll at QB.

 

So the Dolphins are a joke because their QB is injury prone.  By the end of last season, the Bills were without Von Miller and Micah Hyde while Josh Allen, Jordan Poyer, and Tre White were all limited due to injuries.  Should I assume that’s completely different and the Bills should all be expected to bounce back because reasons?

[newcam2012]

27 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

Damar being ok was great news, but the mental damage was done. No denying it. The Narrative never changed. it was already done. How many Times has a teamagte/friend/second family died on the field then revived? THAT is mental damage. To the last bolded I agree with till the end. They said "NOTHING LEFT IN THE TANK" Not as a negative but as a fact. 

We are not talking about Narratives now.. we just talking facts.

We really don't know what if any PTSD any of the players endured. We have no idea how it was processed and how it affected the team going into the playoffs. Its really pure conjecture to say the "damage was done." We really don't know the severity or impact it played. Some players said they were out of gas. I question the legitimacy of that statement. Not saying they are lying but perhaps subconsciously it fits into their narrative. It's easier to blame outside influences than admitting you sucked. 

 

Allen didn't  use the Damar effect as an excuse to losing the game. McD absolutely did though. He was quick as a cat to put that out there. Once again that theme gives credibility to their piss poor peformance. It's shields everyone from blame. 

 

I'm not saying some players didn't have difficulty processing the situation. I'm not saying that some players may have had some minor mental instability.

 

I'm saying I don't think that was a major reason why the Bills lost. I'm saying that Damar situation could have easily fueled the Bills in a positive manner. I'm saying fans, players, and coaches using the Damar excuse as a rational for losing is unlikely. I think the Bills lost due to poor coaching, injuries, and a better team. That doesn't get emphasized enough. Instead, to many what to go directly to the Damar negative effect as a sole excuse. Hogwash.... 

 

Hope that clarifies my point of view. 

Edited July 9, 2023 by newcam2012

[eball]

6 minutes ago, Billl said:

So the Dolphins are a joke because their QB is injury prone

 

Yes.  See, you are capable of understanding.

[newcam2012]

31 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

There is no speculation to how much it hurts mentally and how long it takes to get over something the NFL rarely sees before. Something a player never saw before. The damage is done. Facts. 

Ok based on that logic are the Bills players going to be well enough to play this year? Are players going to suffer from short and or long term PTSD? Will some players be mentally stable to play football? Can we say that the Bills season is in jepordary due to the damage that was done? If the Bills come out flat on Monday night vs the Jets can we legitimately say they haven't recovered from the Damar incident? 

 

The damage is done. The Bills players will always remember what happened. Will they be scared for Damar? Will they have flashbacks? Will they play timid? How long will it take to recover? Can they recover? Can they be focused?

 

The damage is done. I'm greatly looking forward to your prudent response. 

20 minutes ago, Billl said:

So the Dolphins are a joke because their QB is injury prone.  By the end of last season, the Bills were without Von Miller and Micah Hyde while Josh Allen, Jordan Poyer, and Tre White were all limited due to injuries.  Should I assume that’s completely different and the Bills should all be expected to bounce back because reasons?

Bill, eball is one poster that logical posts usually don't apply too. 

 

He's arguably one of the biggest and irrational homer posters here. 

 

No offense...

[PrimeTime101]

1 minute ago, newcam2012 said:

Ok based on that logic are the Bills players going to be well enough to play this year? Are players going to suffer from short and or long term PTSD? Will some players be mentally stable to play football? Can we say that the Bills season is in jepordary due to the damage that was done? If the Bills come out flat on Monday night vs the Jets can we legitimately say they haven't recovered from the Damar incident? 

 

The damage is done. The Bills players will always remember what happened. Will they be scared for Damar? Will they have flashbacks? Will they play timid? How long will it take to recover? Can they recover? Can they be focused?

 

The damage is done. I'm greatly looking forward to your prudent response. 

now you are just exaggerating the topic. did i say long term? stop it. 

21 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

We really don't know what if any PTSD any of the players endured. We have no idea how it was processed and how it affected the team going into the playoffs. Its really pure conjecture to say the "damage was done." We really don't know the severity or impact it played. Some players said they were out of gas. I question the legitimacy of that statement. Not saying they are lying but perhaps subconsciously it fits into their narrative. It's easier to blame outside influences than admitting you sucked. 

 

Allen didn't  use the Damar effect as an excuse to losing the game. McD absolutely did though. He was quick as a cat to put that out there. Once again that theme gives credibility to their piss poor peformance. It's shields everyone from blame. 

 

I'm not saying some players didn't have difficulty processing the situation. I'm not saying that some players may have had some minor mental instability.

 

I'm saying I don't think that was a major reason why the Bills lost. I'm saying that Damar situation could have easily fueled the Bills in a positive manner. I'm saying fans, players, and coaches using the Damar excuse as a rational for losing is unlikely. I think the Bills lost due to poor coaching, injuries, and a better team. That doesn't get emphasized enough. Instead, to many what to go directly to the Damar negative effect as a sole excuse. Hogwash.... 

 

Hope that clarifies my point of view. 

no one talked about PTSD. PTSD is usually long term.

[SoMAn]

8 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

you missed Klien

I won’t be surprised if Klein gets the job. There were reports that he’s very intelligent, described as like having a D coach on the field. 
Give me as guy with smarts and good instincts over the by-the-book superior athlete, any day. 
What good is all that length, wing span, and athleticism when you have no idea where the play is going? Edmunds was usually chasing the play rather than making the play. 
If the eventual replacement is a step slower than Edmunds, he’ll still get to the ball carrier sooner because he’s a better football player. 

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, PrimeTime101 said:

now you are just exaggerating the topic. did i say long term? stop it. 

no one talked about PTSD. PTSD is usually long term.

Point being we don't know the extent of the damage that was inflicted if any and what impact it had on the outcome of games. That was the point of me taking things out of context. 

 

Damar was alive and well for the playoffs. It's possible the mental side effects were minimal come playoff time. That's the way I saw things developing. I saw a Bills team relieved, ready to focus on football, and motivated to win for Damar and it's fan base. Didn't you? 

 

It really never occurred to me the team was gased, unfocused, suffering mentally, and unable to focus due to the Damar incident. In fact, I saw a very focused Bills team win a tough game against the gritty Dolphins. They didn't play their best but they had a heart and will of a championship team. 

 

In short, I'm absolutely convinced that the Bills didn't lose that game due to the Damar trauma. I believe if anything that played a very small role in the game. That is why I take exception to people continually banging that drum and narrative. I truly believe it's disingenuous. Feel free to disagree. 

[Doc]

2 hours ago, Billl said:

So the Dolphins are a joke because their QB is injury prone.  By the end of last season, the Bills were without Von Miller and Micah Hyde while Josh Allen, Jordan Poyer, and Tre White were all limited due to injuries.  Should I assume that’s completely different and the Bills should all be expected to bounce back because reasons?

 

Not so much a joke as unreliable.  The odds of him not getting concussed this coming season (much less by midway of next season, which makes them picking up his 5th year option stupid) are minimal and the next one is likely his last as an NFL player.

Edited July 10, 2023 by Doc

[PrimeTime101]

10 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Point being we don't know the extent of the damage that was inflicted if any and what impact it had on the outcome of games. That was the point of me taking things out of context. 

 

Damar was alive and well for the playoffs. It's possible the mental side effects were minimal come playoff time. That's the way I saw things developing. I saw a Bills team relieved, ready to focus on football, and motivated to win for Damar and it's fan base. Didn't you? 

 

It really never occurred to me the team was gased, unfocused, suffering mentally, and unable to focus due to the Damar incident. In fact, I saw a very focused Bills team win a tough game against the gritty Dolphins. They didn't play their best but they had a heart and will of a championship team. 

 

In short, I'm absolutely convinced that the Bills didn't lose that game due to the Damar trauma. I believe if anything that played a very small role in the game. That is why I take exception to people continually banging that drum and narrative. I truly believe it's disingenuous. Feel free to disagree. 

your right, it was mixed bag. the injuries and who was injured. people not 100% mentally. Cinci game would of been way more entertaining if we had von, hyde and a 100%  White. Not to mention Gabe Davis ankle and a line that just got outperformed at every turn. 

[Doc Brown]

5 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Partly true. That's my pointvof contention. 

 

It's all speculation. Folks on here are consistently banging the Damar negative effect as if its gospel and an absolute fact. It's not! I have elaborated on why I think otherwise. I think my points are pretty valid and reasonable. Feel free to disagree. 

I think it was a small part of it.  If you wanted to do a pie graph for the Bengals game collapse my rough estimate would be injuries 60%, coaching 25%, and the mental toll of the craziest amount of off the field adversity I've ever seen one team have to deal with in a season at 15%.  

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, Doc Brown said:

I think it was a small part of it.  If you wanted to do a pie graph for the Bengals game collapse my rough estimate would be injuries 60%, coaching 25%, and the mental toll of the craziest amount of off the field adversity I've ever seen one team have to deal with in a season at 15%.  

I think that's fair. 

Edited July 10, 2023 by newcam2012

[Olliemets]

On 7/9/2023 at 11:36 PM, Doc Brown said:

I think it was a small part of it.  If you wanted to do a pie graph for the Bengals game collapse my rough estimate would be injuries 60%, coaching 25%, and the mental toll of the craziest amount of off the field adversity I've ever seen one team have to deal with in a season at 15%.  

I would put more on coaching, say 35% IMO. Take 5% away from the other 2.

And that's troubling. There were no adjustments from the Monday night game weeks before or during the game.

Yes the players play...but IMO Dorsey and Frazier were awful.

[Nextmanup]

On 7/9/2023 at 5:54 PM, newcam2012 said:

Partly true. That's my pointvof contention. 

 

It's all speculation. Folks on here are consistently banging the Damar negative effect as if its gospel and an absolute fact. It's not! I have elaborated on why I think otherwise. I think my points are pretty valid and reasonable. Feel free to disagree. 

I could't agree with you more when you say all of the "negative" stuff that happened last year failed to impact the team's performance on the field, which is all that matters.  The fact that some players may have been bummed out 5 minutes before kickoff is meaningless, if they were able to put it aside and focus once the game started.

To be honest, the Damar or Tops shooting type stuff is just classic "sports fan" banter.  It has nothing to do with reality.

 

It's comparable to losing a game we should have won and then the narrative becomes "we didn't want it bad enough," or "it was a trap game, we were focusing on KC the next week!" or "we aren't tough enough, we need tougher players!" or "they weren't prepared to play!"

 

There are a ton of these storylines sports fans love to trot out on demand.  They have nothing to do with why a sports team wins or loses.  It usually comes down to who is better, preparation, and luck.

 

Our offense was broken last year going into the playoffs and it never magically fixed itself, although I was hoping it would come playoff time.  It just never happened.  Doesn't have a damned thing to do with Damar or the Tops shooting tragedy, or the snowstorm and game being moved out of town and so on!

 

These guys are professionals and the best football players on Earth.  When the game starts, they PLAY THEIR BEST and sometimes it doesn't work.

 

 

Edited July 12, 2023 by Nextmanup

[Franco_92]

1 hour ago, Nextmanup said:

I could't agree with you more when you say all of the "negative" stuff that happened last year failed to impact the team's performance on the field, which is all that matters.  The fact that some players may have been bummed out 5 minutes before kickoff is meaningless, if they were able to put it aside and focus once the game started.

To be honest, the Damar or Tops shooting type stuff is just classic "sports fan" banter.  It has nothing to do with reality.

 

It's comparable to losing a game we should have won and then the narrative becomes "we didn't want it bad enough," or "it was a trap game, we were focusing on KC the next week!" or "we aren't tough enough, we need tougher players!" or "they weren't prepared to play!"

 

There are a ton of these storylines sports fans love to trot out on demand.  They have nothing to do with why a sports team wins or loses.  It usually comes down to who is better, preparation, and luck.

 

Our offense was broken last year going into the playoffs and it never magically fixed itself, although I was hoping it would come playoff time.  It just never happened.  Doesn't have a damned thing to do with Damar or the Tops shooting tragedy, or the snowstorm and game being moved out of town and so on!

 

These guys are professionals and the best football players on Earth.  When the game starts, they PLAY THEIR BEST and sometimes it doesn't work.

 

 

The snowstorm can at least interrupt preparation but I agree on the Tops thing. It happened in the depths of the offseason. Of course it was terrible - it also had no bearing on how I did my job the next day, let alone on the bills doing theirs months later