Josh Allen is the most durable starting NFL QB

[Buffalo Ballin]

Dude, he's already on the Madden cover. That's already a jinx. Now, we have to unjinx this thread before Josh Allen gets injured. This thread screams "I'm insecure about Josh Allen's position on today's QB hierarchy totem pole."

 

Josh Allen is him. Don't worry too much about where he is on someone's tier pyramid. Relax.

Edited July 7, 2023 by Buffalo Ballin

[90sBills]

41 minutes ago, 34-78-83 said:

Because they are miles apart as passers, that’s all. Cam in his best days was a mediocre spinner of the pigskin

Definitely more like an Elway

Agreed. That’s why I said improved Cam. Newton was a beast in his early years. His physical prowess was something never seen from the QB position up to that point. Allen’s game is much more similar to Cam than Elway. Don’t let later years Cam cloud your judgement. He accomplished more in his first 5 yrs (MVP SB appearance) than Allen has in his first five. So I don’t feel it’s disrespect to compare the two. It would be disrespectful to compare Allen to NE Cam. That’s a road I hope Allen doesn’t go down. Physically broken from trucking defenders. 

 

[Billl]

9 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

I don't know why people keep saying this. It's not true.

 

He broke his clavicle at Wyoming and missed a season. Happened on a run.

 

And in 2018 he got a concussion from Pats CB Jonathan Jones. Downfield, running.

 

 

He has been injured in the pocket. But also running.

 

 

The entire notion that QBs running isn’t dangerous because more QBs have been injured when passing than when running is the height of stupidity.  The hits a QB takes when running are IN ADDITION TO the hits taken when passing.  And it’s not just a matter of getting knocked out of a game.  There’s a cumulative effect over the course of a career.

 

That said, that’s the risk you take at this point in his career.  He’s got to give every ounce of himself to win a championship.  That’s who he is and it’s what makes him great.  Several seasons from now, he may develop into someone who can just pick defenses apart with quick passes, but until then you have to let him do what he does.  Mahomes takes a beating too.

10 hours ago, 34-78-83 said:

Can we please please stop comparing Allen to Cam Newton, ever? Its kind of an insult at this point.

 

As pure passers, there is simply no comparison. Cam never even remotely came close to the level of Josh in this area. Possibly close from a strength perspective but not the accuracy and layered touch that Josh has developed.

 

Even as runners, while Josh can be "reckless" with the ball in his hands while running, he doesn't take nearly the car-wreck shots that Cam did in the open field. Sure, Josh may not slide or run OB enough for our liking, but he seems to set up his contact with more awareness.

 

And lastly of course, and as some have already stated, Josh's significant (time missed/affected for following games) injuries in the NFL to date have occurred while he was prone in the pocket.

Cam won an MVP and took a team to the Super Bowl.  There’s nothing insulting to Josh about comparing the two.  Josh will have a better career, but he’s yet to reach the peak that Cam did.

[Beck Water]

22 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Ironic, isn't it?

 

Allen is #1 in the NFL with 71 consecutive starts.

 

Justin Herbert has 39, Trevor Lawrence and Pat Mahomes tied for 3rd at 34.

 

Rodgers 4th with 25.

 

 

Take what you will from this. I want Josh to protect himself more, but I think all the fear mongering "he's about to fall off a cliff the way Cam Newton did!" is wildly overblown by the likes of National pundits like Cowherd and folks on this board.

 

I want Josh to be a little more careful while still letting Josh be Josh.

 

Sooooo.  Cam Newton started his career with 49 consecutive starts.  Then missed the 1st game of the 2014 season, played 16 games that season and 19 games the next.  First 5 years of his career, he was pretty dang durable - until he wasn't.

 

The point being - a "Mack Truck" or "Transformer" of a guy, is on the field and available all the time, until he isn't.  And his  determination to be that way, in itself takes a toll when the guy insists on playing hurt.  From the glimpses we saw in OTAs and mini-camp, it looks as though Josh may have "dodged a bullet" to any harms by playing through his torn UCL. 

 

RBs have short careers in the NFL for a reason, even when they don't miss games for injuries.  All the hits they take add up, and their body presents the bill when they near 30.

 

 

Edited July 7, 2023 by Beck Water

[transplantbillsfan]

11 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Some of us have been asking for data, for years, supporting the armchair football expert's view that a QB who runs will be hurt all the time.

 

Also, some of us have been saying, for years, that Josh needs to RUN with the ball, as it's the most dangerous thing he does.

 

Josh not running is like Josh playing at 65% capability, due to injury.

 

Let the boy run.  If he breaks 3 ribs and is out for the season, that's called bad luck.

 

He could destroy his knee being sacked, standing still in the pocket, too.

 

Let the boy run while he is young and healthy enough to do it.

 

The running aspect of his game will disappear with age long before his arm fails.

 

The window isn't THAT big.

 

The only 2 injuries Josh has suffered in his career (both UCL injuries) have been from the pocket.

 

I've said it a million times: minimize Josh's designed runs but tell him he has a bright green light to scramble any time he wants since that's when he's most effective.

[Doc Brown]

18 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

The only 2 injuries Josh has suffered in his career (both UCL injuries) have been from the pocket.

 

I've said it a million times: minimize Josh's designed runs but tell him he has a bright green light to scramble any time he wants since that's when he's most effective.

He got a concussion running the ball on a 3rd and long in 2019 against the Patriots trying to get the first down.  He got a turf toe injury on a scramble against the Bucs in 2021 when he had an opportunity to slide after getting the first down.  When you run that much you're playing with fire and he just hasn't been burned too severely yet.

[HardyBoy]

46 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

He got a concussion running the ball on a 3rd and long in 2019 against the Patriots trying to get the first down.  He got a turf toe injury on a scramble against the Bucs in 2021 when he had an opportunity to slide after getting the first down.  When you run that much you're playing with fire and he just hasn't been burned too severely yet.

 

Agree, but there have been some hits he's taken on the run where his legs have been bent in awkward angles and thankfully he's hopped right up...all of them on unnecessary hits either trying to get a few extra yards after breaking big runs, or the thing he really freaking needs to stop doing is holding the ball going to the sideline a split second longer trying to get a roughing call...he has said he does that on purpose and he has fallen and hit his head pretty hard after making those plays...I don't think any single person is saying he needs to stop scrambling...he needs to stop trying to show up defenders and get on highlight reals...he's going to get seriously hurt doing that and it's 90% of the time unnecessary...was it the lions game that had a great example of that?

 

Also, his in the pocket injuries haven't been when he's hitting his first read...they've happened when he's trying to extend plays instead of understanding he needs to just throw it away instead of trying to win every single play...a random 3rd down in the first quarter of a tied game is not worth the risk reward of a potential awkward hit... he's an actual person who is going to deal with the actual physical impacts of this play style for the rest of his life...obviously he's an nfl football player, but he's playing recklessly and it's really dangerous and it's a numbers game, eventually something will happen and not everything is fixable. Anyone saying he should just keep doing it because it's entertaining...gross

[34-78-83]

2 hours ago, Billl said:

Cam won an MVP and took a team to the Super Bowl.  There’s nothing insulting to Josh about comparing the two.  Josh will have a better career, but he’s yet to reach the peak that Cam did.

All of Cam's accomplishments are pretty well known common knowledge for a football fan. As a passer there is simply no comparison, and that is ultimately how a QB is measured. They aren't in the same zip code as passers. My points are not related to any sort of unfamiliarity with Newton's success.

[transplantbillsfan]

4 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

He got a concussion running the ball on a 3rd and long in 2019 against the Patriots trying to get the first down.  He got a turf toe injury on a scramble against the Bucs in 2021 when he had an opportunity to slide after getting the first down.  When you run that much you're playing with fire and he just hasn't been burned too severely yet.

 

Did he miss games because of either of those?

 

I get it. That Pats game injury he needed to not take that hit... yet that's exactly the play that makes him Him. 

 

The Concussion threat is the biggest worry to him running. And it's there. But UCL injuries are more severe injuries for a QB and both happened in the pocket. Look around the league and I think you find a ton of severe injuries to QBs happening in the pocket... including concussions... just ask Tua.

 

Josh is human. But he's not a normal human. Not even as far as NFL players are concerned.

 

I think he's already proven that.

[eball]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again.  We are spoiled, and Josh’s playing style has not led to him being more susceptible to significant injury.

 

We just need to take the next step while we have this unicorn.

 

[CincyBillsFan]

18 hours ago, FireChans said:

Pretty good wasnt good enough to beat the Bengals unfortunately.

IMO even if Allen played lights out and was at his best the Bills still lose.  The D never stopped the Bengals when it mattered.  Sure the score would have been closer but with Allen running for his life and the Bengals able to name the score against our Defense it would still have been a loss.

 

 

 

 

[FireChans]

33 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

IMO even if Allen played lights out and was at his best the Bills still lose.  The D never stopped the Bengals when it mattered.  Sure the score would have been closer but with Allen running for his life and the Bengals able to name the score against our Defense it would still have been a loss.

 

 

 

 

We’ll never know because he definitely didn’t lol

[CincyBillsFan]

48 minutes ago, FireChans said:

We’ll never know because he definitely didn’t lol

The defense did not make a stop when it had to the entire game:

 

*  Allowed back to back 75+ yard drives to stake the Bengals to an early 14 - 0 lead, silence the home crowd and grab all the momentum right out of the gate. 

 

*  After the Bills cut the lead to 14 - 7 the Bengals went on a long time consuming FG drive that took up most of the remaining 2nd quarter and gave Cincinnati a two score lead at half. 

 

*  After the Bills opened the 3rd quarter with a long FG drive to again cut the Bengal's lead to one score the Bills D gave up a long time consuming drive that used up most of the remaining 3rd quarter and gave Cincy a 14 point lead.

 

Meanwhile the Bills O line allowed Allen to be pressured on half his passing attempts.  HALF!  A lesser QB would have been sacked 6 or 7 times.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

11 hours ago, Billl said:

The entire notion that QBs running isn’t dangerous because more QBs have been injured when passing than when running is the height of stupidity.  The hits a QB takes when running are IN ADDITION TO the hits taken when passing.  And it’s not just a matter of getting knocked out of a game.  There’s a cumulative effect over the course of a career.

 

That said, that’s the risk you take at this point in his career.  He’s got to give every ounce of himself to win a championship.  That’s who he is and it’s what makes him great.  Several seasons from now, he may develop into someone who can just pick defenses apart with quick passes, but until then you have to let him do what he does.  Mahomes takes a beating too.

Cam won an MVP and took a team to the Super Bowl.  There’s nothing insulting to Josh about comparing the two.  Josh will have a better career, but he’s yet to reach the peak that Cam did.

 

 

Yeah even Mahomes needs to take less hits and he runs half as much.     

 

Lumbering, unathletic types like Brady and Manning had bit of a leg up on longevity because they KNEW they couldn't run so they had to find a way to succeed while getting the ball out quick.    If Peyton hadn't hurt his neck falling down the stairs at Big Tree Inn trying to run with Jim Kelly after a game in Buffalo he probably plays until he was 45 too. 

[FireChans]

29 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

The defense did not make a stop when it had to the entire game:

 

*  Allowed back to back 75+ yard drives to stake the Bengals to an early 14 - 0 lead, silence the home crowd and grab all the momentum right out of the gate. 

 

*  After the Bills cut the lead to 14 - 7 the Bengals went on a long time consuming FG drive that took up most of the remaining 2nd quarter and gave Cincinnati a two score lead at half. 

 

*  After the Bills opened the 3rd quarter with a long FG drive to again cut the Bengal's lead to one score the Bills D gave up a long time consuming drive that used up most of the remaining 3rd quarter and gave Cincy a 14 point lead.

 

Meanwhile the Bills O line allowed Allen to be pressured on half his passing attempts.  HALF!  A lesser QB would have been sacked 6 or 7 times.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The offense went 3 and out twice when the Bengals went up 14-0. Talk about momentum. 
 

No one showed up to play.

[bigduke6]

one mans fear mongering is another mans pragmatism.   Josh needs to be Josh,  but,  Cam was considered indestructible as well,  and it didnt last.   all it takes is one shoulder injury on a goal line dive,  or one head injury,  or etc etc etc.   getting older in the NFL is no joke.   bodies start to break down overnight for some.   while Josh is indeed an ironman up till this point,  you never know.

 

what really needs to change is the line needs to give him hours to sit back there and sling the ball with a clean pocket,  the thing that made Brady and is making Mahomes look so good.   we need receivers to get separation,  a running game that is a threat,  playcalling that doesnt rely on Josh making plays with his legs.

 

this team needs Josh in the game,  uninjured.  the offense dropped off when the UCL hit,  as expected.    yes that was in the pocket,  but it shows just how much this team relies on Josh being Josh. 

 

3rd and 2,  13 seconds left,   win or go home game?   go be an athlete Josh.   3rd and 2,  8 minutes left in 1st quarter vs anybody regular season,  caution. 

nothing wrong with being cautious.

[716]

On 7/6/2023 at 5:40 AM, StHustle said:

Kinda misleading cause he played through an injury most QBs woulda missed at least one game with. And didn't he also play through injury a couple seasons back? So yeah the streak is cool but he still get hurt and his play suffers as a result. I love his toughness but not sure if this #1 streak means what it looks like.

It looks like 71 consecutive starts 🤷🏿‍♂️

[buffaloboyinATL]

I was afraid this was another thread about Josh heating up Mexico with Hailee Steinfeld. I thought the “reporter” provided way too much information.

[HardyBoy]

Btw, I have long said that I think by far the best comp to Josh Allen is Andrew Luck...

 

 

Edited July 7, 2023 by HardyBoy

[CincyBillsFan]

8 hours ago, FireChans said:

The offense went 3 and out twice when the Bengals went up 14-0. Talk about momentum. 
 

No one showed up to play.

The first 3 and out was brilliantly dissected on a link in another post.  On 3rd & 4 Allen was immediately forced to his left by a missed Saffold block.  He was clobbered at exactly the moment he released the ball and missed an open Diggs for a likely TD. The guy reviewing the play thought Diggs ran a great rout and Allen made a great throw under the circumstances and that they missed tying the Bengals by a few inches.  The play of the O line and lack of protection was easily the single biggest factor in the O struggling in that game.

 

Go back and actually watch a playoff game.  It's not unusual, particularly on a bad weather day, for an O to struggle to get its feet set early on.  In that type of game AT HOME your top rated D is expected to hold the fort.  Instead our D allowed the Bengals to score 14 points and use up almost an entire quarter.  How different is this game if the D does its job and holds Cincy to a FG and an early 3 - 0 lead?