Allen stats compared to Peyton Manning 👀

[Chicken Boo]

3 hours ago, Ya Digg? said:

Not sure this is a true statement. You even say it yourself that the receivers were allowed Ro get mugged. They were bigger but a lot slower. Those linebackers wouldn’t be able to keep up with offenses today just like current linebackers would have to be able to handle more of a beating back in those days 

 

The 2000s is arguably the greatest era of linebackers ever.  I stand on that statement.  Safeties too.  

[Chicken Boo]

1 hour ago, JoPoy88 said:

eh. It’s not like corners were ridiculously good in Peyton’s day compared to now.

 

More the safeties than the corners, but they were no slouches.  Hell, just on the Bills and Phins you had Clemments, Winfield, Surtain and Madison.  

[PrimeTime101]

6 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

We get it.  Josh is good, BUT it was a vastly different game in the late 90s-2000s and yes, Peyton threw a ton of pics early in his career.  

Just wondering... how many yards did peyton run a year?

[ganesh]

7 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

We get it.  Josh is good, BUT it was a vastly different game in the late 90s-2000s and yes, Peyton threw a ton of pics early in his career.  

The game was different in the 90s...but in the last twenty years the game is more or less the same..QBs have elevated themselves;  starting from Manning brothers,  Brady, Big Ben, Rivers, Rodgers  have all made it a QB driven league.  It is continuing with Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Dak etc.

7 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

Just a reminder of how lucky we are. 1st ballot h.o.f QB 

The one missing stat here is the number of Fumbles and fumbles lost.  I think Josh has fumbled the ball a lot more than his contemporary QBs (due to the nature of his running game or holding on to the FB to make the big play).   It would be good to get that stats.

[Chaos]

7 hours ago, gobills404 said:

Josh is an insanely talented QB and we’re beyond lucky to have him on the Bills. He also leads the league in turnovers since 2020 and needs to do a much better job of taking care of the football. Both these things can be true.

More offensive plays run through Josh, than any other player in the NFL.  His turnover rate is fine. Allen is the only part of the Bills team who has no significant room for improved productivity. 

[ganesh]

3 hours ago, joshhasbighands said:

Josh has made mistakes but I saw a piece yesterday where they were saying Burrow threw 15 INTs last season, yet he is thought of for some reason as so much better than Josh by people in the media. I think Allen gets judged differently because of the pre draft talk around him and his issues. People who thought he'd be a bust will grudgingly admit he's good when they have no other choice (when he plays out of his mind) but every time he throws a pick they're right there with the same old Allen talk. 

 

I'm sort of glad he's not the media darling anymore because he's better with a chip on his shoulder. I wouldn't be too surprised to see him have an MVP year this season. But to shut these guys up he needs to win a Super Bowl and an MVP

I think people go by how we do in the playoffs...

Mahomes beat Burrow and Lawrence

Burrow beat Allen and Jackson 

Lawrence beat Herbert

Allen beat the Dolphins 3rd string QB

 

The way we got beat at home by the Bengals sticks a lot in the mind of media...We lost by 17 points at home when we were the favorites.  They man handled us at every point in the game.  A lot of the blame for that loss goes directly to how Josh played the game (fair or not).  

[billsfan89]

8 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Not exactly the guy I'd compare him to but interesting

 

I didn't realize Manning threw that many picks early on

 

From 98 to 02 he was an INT machine. Obviously a lot of people were aware of his 28 INT's as a rookie which I think was the record for rookie year INT's. But the next 4 seasons he had 15 or more INT's including 23 in 2001 and 19 in 2002. Manning of course then settled into being much better with the ball only throwing 10 or less INT's from 2003-2006 his best years. 

[Mr. WEO]

Why though?

[gobills404]

4 hours ago, billybrew1 said:

Dabbol had Josh’s turnovers trending way down then Daboll left….

Allen’s turnover count has increased every year since 2019.

[Jay_Fixit]

10 hours ago, SMAKCruiser said:

 He threw a ton in his rookie year

Yes. And then 72 more to equal the 100 over his first 5 years.

[Nephilim17]

Comparing different eras with stats is almost futile.

 

What I am encouraged by, however, is that Manning went from throwing a lot of turnovers to becoming one of the most cerebral QBs in the game. I'm not saying Josh will become Peyton, but I have hope his football IQ and decision making can still improve substantially over the next couple of years.

[SoCal Deek]

Any chance they can get Josh to yell “Tonawanda” instead of “Omaha”? When he does, then you’ll really know he’s made it. 👍

[Ethan in Cleveland]

16 hours ago, joshhasbighands said:

Josh has made mistakes but I saw a piece yesterday where they were saying Burrow threw 15 INTs last season, yet he is thought of for some reason as so much better than Josh by people in the media. I think Allen gets judged differently because of the pre draft talk around him and his issues. People who thought he'd be a bust will grudgingly admit he's good when they have no other choice (when he plays out of his mind) but every time he throws a pick they're right there with the same old Allen talk. 

 

I'm sort of glad he's not the media darling anymore because he's better with a chip on his shoulder. I wouldn't be too surprised to see him have an MVP year this season. But to shut these guys up he needs to win a Super Bowl and an MVP

 Nobody thinks Burrow is that much better than Allen if at all. they all think however he has better wide receiver group then Allen does.

[Thurman#1]

20 hours ago, wppete said:

Peyton Mannings arm doesn’t even compare to the rocket 🚀 arm Josh’s Allen has. 

 

 

Josh's is stronger. But before the injuries Peyton had one of the strongest arms in the league.

 

 

Excerpt from Polian's book:

 

"I began to focus on every pass in his career that traveled more than 40 yards and what I found out was that, once the ball got beyond 60 yards, he started losing accuracy.

 

"[The trainer] has an arm-strength drill whereby he stands the quarterback on the goal line and has a receiver facing him five yards away. The quarterback has to throw to the receiver using only his arm; he isn't allowed to step into his throw or use his feet in any way. And after each throw, the receiver moves back in 5-yard increments until he eventually reaches the 50-yard line....

 

"[The trainer] put Peyton through the arm-strength drill, and his pass to the 50-yard line was on a rope. Peyton's arm was among the strongest I have seen. It maybe was not quite as strong as Jim Kelly's, but certainly strong enough. Interestingly, Peyton threw what we call a 'heavy ball,' meaning it has a lot of rotation on it, which was quite interesting because guys with weaker arms usually don't throw a heavy ball. When you catch a heavy ball, your hands sting because it comes out with some heat on it.

 

"I remember turning to Tom Moore and saying, '[Leaf's] arm is not as strong as Peyton's.'

 

"'I think you're right,' Tom said."

 

 

[Thurman#1]

17 hours ago, joshhasbighands said:

Josh has made mistakes but I saw a piece yesterday where they were saying Burrow threw 15 INTs last season, yet he is thought of for some reason as so much better than Josh by people in the media. I think Allen gets judged differently because of the pre draft talk around him and his issues. People who thought he'd be a bust will grudgingly admit he's good when they have no other choice (when he plays out of his mind) but every time he throws a pick they're right there with the same old Allen talk. 

 

I'm sort of glad he's not the media darling anymore because he's better with a chip on his shoulder. I wouldn't be too surprised to see him have an MVP year this season. But to shut these guys up he needs to win a Super Bowl and an MVP

 

 

Burrow threw 12 last year, Josh 14. 

 

But in the last 3 years, Burrow threw 5 (in 9 games), 14 and 12, while Josh, with two years more in the league, threw 10, 15 and 14. 

 

And in Allen's last three years he has 30 fumbles compared to Burrow's 20. 

 

There are reasons for the turnover reputation. At this point, Allen is no longer judged by pre-draft talk, he just isn't. There was a time when he was, in his first two or three years, but that time is long past.

[leonbus23]

Being compared to Manning is great. Can Allen end his career with 72,000 passing yards and win 2 super bowls? Or, like Matt Ryan and Phillip Rivers, end his career with 63,000 yards and zero super bowls? 

 

Personally, I'd prefer Montana's 40,000 yards and 4 super bowls! 

 

At this point, he could still fizzle out like Luck, Bulger, or Culpepper.

Edited July 4, 2023 by leonbus23

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

All that matters is how he compares to his peers. And Allen compares very favorably. The only peer QB one could say is better is Mahomes.  The only one that might be better is Burrow. So he is somewhere around number 2-3 amongst his peers. That is what you want in your franchise QB.

 

Peyton was a turnover machine compared to some of his peers that had overlapping careers like Brady and Rodgers. But Peyton was also consistently top 3 amongst his peers for the majority of his career. 

 

I hope Allen can stay top three. Their is a chance he could become Big Ben or Phillip Rivers as more good QB’s and teams come into maturity but Big Ben was still usually top 5-6 and won two super bowls while going to three. 
 

The absolute worst outcome for Allen would be him following the trajectory of Phillip Rivers. But right now Herbert probably has to worry the most about not becoming the next Rivers.

 

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Burrow threw 12 last year, Josh 14. 

 

But in the last 3 years, Burrow threw 5 (in 9 games), 14 and 12, while Josh, with two years more in the league, threw 10, 15 and 14. 

 

And in Allen's last three years he has 30 fumbles compared to Burrow's 20. 

 

There are reasons for the turnover reputation. At this point, Allen is no longer judged by pre-draft talk, he just isn't. There was a time when he was, in his first two or three years, but that time is long past.

Fumbles happen when you're half the rush offense

[Mikie2times]

The average QB rating in 

 

1970 =  75.6

1980 =  73.7

1990 =  77.3

2000=  78.1

2010 =  84.1

2020 = 93.6

 

As an example, Peyton had a 121.1 rating in 2004.  The average rating in 2004 82.8, so he was 38.3 points above the average. He was also clocking 90's or higher after basically his first year.  I love Josh, but trying to compare his raw stats to Peyton is silly. 

[joshhasbighands]

3 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

 Nobody thinks Burrow is that much better than Allen if at all. they all think however he has better wide receiver group then Allen does.

Almost every clip I've seen from every sports show (I'm not denying they're fronted by idiots) has people putting Burrow above Allen