Playoff offense is just as much an issue as defense

[Chaos]

21 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

will always 100% be on McDermott. He's the fricken HC

as far as I know, he has never owned that 

[LABILLBACKER]

14 minutes ago, Chaos said:

as far as I know, he has never owned that 

No he hasn't and never will. 

[JerseyBills]

48 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

The butchered non squib/pop kick will always 100% be on McDermott. He's the fricken HC. Take your ST out on the field and tell them what to do. Don't "hope" a lackey tells Farwell who in turn tells Bass something else.  Pop that kick up inside the 10 and the games over.

Definitely.  Considering the magnitude of that game. What your offense just did , idk how you don't pull the ST coach over and make sure he knows what to do. That game will haunt me forever because the way Allen was playing that post season. Def think we win it all. He'll have 1 less SB on his resume because Shaun didn't do such a simple thing😥

Edited July 2, 2023 by JerseyBills

[Ayjent]

You hold like hell on D at the end of the :13 seconds and you kick off just like they did bc field position is most likely further back w/o squib which gets you 3-4 seconds at best with potentially much better field position for kc. A 5 yd penalty that wasted 7 seconds on 1st puts them at 1st and 10 at 30.  Much more difficult situation and basically game over. 

 

Like many Bills playoff loses it was a series of incompatible strategies that sunk them. That was the inexcusable error - no awareness of how to just take advantage of the situation.  Sometimes a penalty is your friend and they should know that. Yet they repeated the error in the regular season last year. 

Edited July 3, 2023 by Ayjent

[newcam2012]

14 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

No he hasn't and never will. 

Yet, he preaches high character and builds a culture in the locker room. 

 

That's not leading by example. 

 

This fan thinks he's a coward for not admitting his mistake. 

[newcam2012]

2 hours ago, Ayjent said:

You hold like hell on D at the end of the :13 seconds and you kick off just like they did bc field position is most likely further back w/o squib which gets you 3-4 seconds at best with potentially much better field position for kc. A 5 yd penalty that wasted 7 seconds on 1st puts them at 1st and 10 at 30.  Much more difficult situation and basically game over. 

 

Like many Bills playoff loses it was a series of incompatible strategies that sunk them. That was the inexcusable error - no awareness of how to just take advantage of the situation.  Sometimes a penalty is your friend and they should know that. Yet they repeated the error in the regular season last year. 

Agree. The Bills coaches should have told all their players to tackle and hold all the Chiefs pass catchers. A  penalty would have done nothing. 

 

The following year the league would have implemented some sort of rule change to prevent this from happening. 

 

McD owes the fans an apology and a likely SB win. How anyone can stand by such gross incompetence is mind boggling. 

 

To boot, the following year he was taken to the wood shed by the Bengals. A home playoff game where he players weren't prepared and his game plan absolutely sucked. 

 

But heck! This year is going to be his year. He will have learned. 

 

I got some land to sell if anyone is interested. 

Edited July 3, 2023 by newcam2012

[Royale with Cheese]

On 6/30/2023 at 12:41 PM, Nextmanup said:

It's all offense; people talking about defense are older guys who grew up in the '50s, '60s, '70s and '80s hearing "Defense wins championships" and they aren't smart enough to adapt their thinking to a changing world.

 

 

9 out of the last 10 Super Bowl winners had a top 10 scoring defense.
 

4 out of the last 5 Super Bowl winners held their opponent to 20 points or less.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

42 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Agree. The Bills coaches should have told all their players to tackle and hold all the Chiefs pass catchers. A  penalty would have done nothing. 

 

The following year the league would have implemented some sort of rule change to prevent this from happening. 

 

McD owes the fans an apology and a likely SB win. How anyone can stand by such gross incompetence is mind boggling. 

 

To boot, the following year he was taken to the wood shed by the Bengals. A home playoff game where he players weren't prepared and his game plan absolutely sucked. 

 

But heck! This year is going to be his year. He will have learned. 

 

I got some land to sell if anyone is interested. 

 

He doesn't "owe" you anything. He is a professional doing a job. You have to take the emotion from it. Coaches and players don't owe fans. They are employees of a company, the same as any other employee.

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

Agree. The Bills coaches should have told all their players to tackle and hold all the Chiefs pass catchers. A  penalty would have done nothing. 

 

The following year the league would have implemented some sort of rule change to prevent this from happening. 

 

McD owes the fans an apology and a likely SB win. How anyone can stand by such gross incompetence is mind boggling. 

 

To boot, the following year he was taken to the wood shed by the Bengals. A home playoff game where he players weren't prepared and his game plan absolutely sucked. 

 

But heck! This year is going to be his year. He will have learned. 

 

I got some land to sell if anyone is interested. 

 

 

And yes, I would be interested in land if you are able to sell it...land is a very good investment.

 

Now if your intention was to say "ocean front property in Iowa", which I suspect because that would only make sense as a joke....then no I wouldn't be interested.

[PBF81]

On 6/30/2023 at 1:22 PM, LABILLBACKER said:

How do our equipment guys get the cleats wrong.

 

On your home field no less.

 

 

[PrimeTime101]

On 6/30/2023 at 12:54 PM, NewEra said:

You just continue to reinforce how smart Dumb you are.  

I fixed it for you  

[JerseyBills]

4 hours ago, Ayjent said:

You hold like hell on D at the end of the :13 seconds and you kick off just like they did bc field position is most likely further back w/o squib which gets you 3-4 seconds at best with potentially much better field position for kc. A 5 yd penalty that wasted 7 seconds on 1st puts them at 1st and 10 at 30.  Much more difficult situation and basically game over. 

 

Like many Bills playoff loses it was a series of incompatible strategies that sunk them. That was the inexcusable error - no awareness of how to just take advantage of the situation.  Sometimes a penalty is your friend and they should know that. Yet they repeated the error in the regular season last year. 

Ya that too. Should have pressed and held everyWR and Kelce. Rushed 3 and had everyone else play off. So many simple variations could have been much better vs what they ended up doing

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He doesn't "owe" you anything. He is a professional doing a job. You have to take the emotion from it. Coaches and players don't owe fans. They are employees of a company, the same as any other employee.

Oh I agree he doesn't owe me an apology. 

 

However, when you portray a certain image such as being a christain man, moral man, of high character, etc...you might think an apology is the right thing to do. At the very least take a little responsibility. He has done neither to date. 

 

I wonder if he apologized to the Bills players? We will really never know what he told the players. I suspect with no evidence he gave a nice consolation speech with no ownership that he failed his players. 

 

Leaders take ownership and admit their mistakes. The following year McD underpreformed in the playoffs again. That's putting it mildly. Maybe this is the year he's learned? Or next year? Or next year?  

 

It baffles me that Pegula gave him an extension. There was no need to extend him. He's likely to regret that decision in a couple of years. 

54 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

On your home field no less.

 

 

Just more BS excuses and lots of Bills fans believe them. 

Edited July 3, 2023 by newcam2012

[newcam2012]

16 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

Ya that too. Should have pressed and held everyWR and Kelce. Rushed 3 and had everyone else play off. So many simple variations could have been much better vs what they ended up doing

Pee wee coaching 101. 

[PrimeTime101]

11 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Oh I agree he doesn't owe me an apology. 

 

However, when you portray a certain image such as being a christain man, moral man, of high character, etc...you might think an apology is the right thing to do. At the very least take a little responsibility. He has done neither to date. 

 

I wonder if he apologized to the Bills players? We will really never know what he told the players. I suspect with no evidence he gave a nice consolation speech with no ownership that he failed his players. 

 

Leaders take ownership and admit their mistakes. The following year McD underpreformed in the playoffs again. That's putting it mildly. Maybe this is the year he's learned? Or next year? Or next year?  

 

It baffles me that Pegula gave him an extension. There was no need to extend him. He's likely to regret that decision in a couple of years. 

Just more BS excuses and lots of Bills fans believe them. 

#1. Leave religion out of this yes? 

#2 It is a business. things are said for many different things we will never understand

#3 Other than saying "that game was on me" Rarely does a coach apologize to a team for much.

#4 McD did apologize once on a 4th and 1 decision.

#5 McD got us to a playoff game with a HORRIBLE team. That should tell you something....

#6 The only thing that baffles me is your lack of knowledge on this topic. This extension was long in the works and HC extensions never mean they cannot or will not be let go the following year. We will never no the exact terms in HC extensions. 

 

Lastly in my humble opinion? There is no other HC that has as good of character as McD does.

 

get over it. 

[PBF81]

On 6/30/2023 at 2:11 PM, Mikie2times said:

I'm highlighting one game to show how our perceptions of what is and isn't an issue have become very clouded. It didn't end up being 16 seconds for the Patriots because they overcame it.   It didn't end up being a defensive issue for KC because they overcame it the next year.   They both did this on offense. Nearly every team has to overcome on offense in the playoffs as we nearly did in 2021.   But the reality is, we have not performed even close to that level before or since and if you look at our broader playoff performances on offense they lack the quality and consistency that we tend to see in the regular season. 

 

Based on 2021 and the poor defensive performance and how we lost 13 seconds, I think most people around here think the offense is fine come playoff time. It hasn't been.   This would be much more obvious to most if the defense wasn't horrendous in our losses.   But the fact is even if it wasn't, we still likely lose all three games. We see 20 to 1 ratios identifying playoff defense as the main problem.   Playoff offense is just as big of a problem.   The consistency isn't there and it goes past just 1 game involving KC and the Patriots to know you need to have elite consistency, clutch play, and the ability to score a ton of points if you want to make the Super Bowl.  

 

No, we just need to perform more consistently.   It's all phases, people are just obsessed with defense.  

 

Generally agree with you here Mikie, but I'm not sure you used a good game to compare our 13-seconds to.  I just watched the end of that Pats v. Chiefs game.  

 

To start, in our game vs. the Chiefs there were 13 seconds left on the clock after we had the game in the bag up by 3.  

In the New England game, there were 39 seconds left after NE went up by 3.  

 

NE played relatively good D and challenged them, while we essentially handed them 44 Yards on 2 plays.  Huge difference there.  

 

At the end, for NE, KC all but had a FG wrapped up at the 16-second mark, so all NE had to do was defend against a TD, which they did.  KC, which was out of Time-Outs, couldn't afford to throw short, miss the end zone, and still line up for a FG, wouldn't have happened.  

 

Other than that, apart from only three offensive players bothering to show up (Allen, Davis, and Beasley) who were responsible for all but 68 yards out of 422 (84%) we had 5 TD drives of 75, 75, 75, 75, and 71.   371 Total 

 

Likewise, the Patriots had 5 TD drives of 90, 80, 75, 75, and 65.  385 Total   The Pats also had an 8-yard FG drive.  

 

Otherwise, the Pats ended 5 other drives with 2 INTs, 2 Punts, and 1 on Downs.  

We ended 4 other drives on Punts.  

 

So I'm not seeing anything even approaching a direct correlation here.  Had Bass kicked off and gotten the same 26-yard return from KC that they got on 7-seconds, the Chiefs would have had the ball at their own 31 with 6 seconds left on the clock, one play in essence.  A squib kick likely would have forced handling, and not to bring that up again other than in the context here.  

 

I'm not sure that I agree on the rest.  Over the past three seasons the only two games in which the Offense did not play well enough was the Bengals game last season and the Ravens game two seasons prior to that.  The Ravens had the 2nd-ranked D that season and played like it in the playoffs, unlike us, and both us and the Titans averaged about 31 PPG that season, and they held the Titans to 209 Total Yards and 13 Points while they held us to 220 Total Yards and 17 points.  That season they held 11 of their 17 games to 17 Points or fewer.  

 

In short, I cannot blame the offense although your statements about a lack of consistency I would support.  For example, Diggs hasn't typically show up in the playoffs over the past three seasons.  

 

If we get even average play from our D in the playoffs, something that McD supposedly specializes in, then IMO we're OK, although as we see, the Ravens' 2nd Ranked Scoring D held two teams averaging 31 to less than half of that in the playoffs.  I don't see why we cannot regularly hold teams (other than KC perhaps), to fewer than 24 easily.  

 

BTW, NE Did play better than we did, not doubt, but not to the extent that our offense wasn't beyond adequate.  The whole world except for a pocket of dissenters without much of an argument here knows that what happened in our game was entirely on coaching to lose it.  

 

What NE, Brady really, did, was to execute the short-medium much higher-profile passes much much better, which has been Brady's strong suit all along.  

 

 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

19 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

The butchered non squib/pop kick will always 100% be on McDermott. He's the fricken HC. Take your ST out on the field and tell them what to do. Don't "hope" a lackey tells Farwell who in turn tells Bass something else.  Pop that kick up inside the 10 and the games over.

100% agree.

 

McDemott failed to realize that was the most critical play / call of his coaching career so far. He should have had 100% control of what was going on. It’s okay to use assistant coaches but he needed to have oversight of the entire operation on that sequence. 

6 hours ago, Ayjent said:

You hold like hell on D at the end of the :13 seconds and you kick off just like they did bc field position is most likely further back w/o squib which gets you 3-4 seconds at best with potentially much better field position for kc. A 5 yd penalty that wasted 7 seconds on 1st puts them at 1st and 10 at 30.  Much more difficult situation and basically game over. 

 

Like many Bills playoff loses it was a series of incompatible strategies that sunk them. That was the inexcusable error - no awareness of how to just take advantage of the situation.  Sometimes a penalty is your friend and they should know that. Yet they repeated the error in the regular season last year. 

waste 7 seconds on one penalty?

 

 That is a bit too optimistic. They completed two plays in 10 seconds. 
 

I agree they should have held on both plays or at least the first. Don’t recall if there is an additional penalty for the second consecutive holding. 
 

Either way the touchback was rendered useless strategy because they decided not to hold on the next two plays. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

6 hours ago, Ayjent said:

Sometimes a penalty is your friend and they should know that. Yet they repeated the error in the regular season last year. 

which game was this last year?

[Buffalo_Stampede]

19 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

The butchered non squib/pop kick will always 100% be on McDermott. He's the fricken HC. Take your ST out on the field and tell them what to do. Don't "hope" a lackey tells Farwell who in turn tells Bass something else.  Pop that kick up inside the 10 and the games over.

What’s crazy is they had a similar situation vs the Rams in 2020 and executed everything perfectly. They scored to go up 35-32 with 15 seconds left. Squib kick took 5 seconds off. Rams knew they only had 2 plays.
 

We’ll never know what happened vs KC. McDermott is 100% taking the blame from fans and media. 

Edited July 3, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

  Over the past three seasons the only two games in which the Offense did not play well enough was the Bengals game last season and the Ravens game two seasons prior to that.  The Ravens had the 2nd-ranked D that season and played like it in the playoffs, 

I don’t fully fault the offense in the Ravens playoff game. The winds were definitely something that was affecting both offenses that night. Tuck who never misses kicks inside 45 yards missed two both around 40yards. Gimmie kicks for him. That is how we know wind was a big factor that night.