Playoff offense is just as much an issue as defense

[Mikie2times]

Replaying the 4th quarter of the Patriots AFC Championship game at Arrowhead, it became clear just how much the final outcome can cloud the perceptions of how it occurred.

 

In that AFC Championship game, final score, 37-31 ending in a New England win. New England scored to take a 3 point lead with 39 seconds left. It took Mahomes and the Chiefs 16 seconds to get into position to kick the game tying FG from inside the 25. New England would win the toss and score on it's first drive to win the game in OT. No talk of 16 seconds, they won the game. In the process of winning the game, despite having seen Brady do this for the better part of the last 20 years it was impossible to not see the level of precision it took to sustain drives. He was completing passes in the 4th quarter we aren't even attempting. KC had DB's painted on NE WR's and one of the best pass rushes in the league in KC that year had no ability at touch Brady with how quick he was getting the ball out. The level of efficiency on offense that it took to win that game was mind boggling.  

 

KC won the Super Bowl the next year and they didn't do so because they suddenly figured out a way to solve those defensive issues. They did so because Mahomes led an offense as clutch and consistent as any QB we have seen since Brady.

 

Over in our neck of the woods, Josh and the offenses performance in 13 seconds and multiple defensive meltdowns have left us putting the failure of this team squarely on the defenses back. Hogwash. The only year we showed in our losses that we could sustain drives offensively was 2021. We were not able to come back like the Chiefs and execute at that level before or since. To win the Super Bowl you need that level of performance. Ask Philadelphia if you think otherwise.

 

2019 =Our offense scored 19 points in a loss to Houston including 6 points in the second half

2020 =Our offense puts up 9 points in the final 4 minutes to make a 38-15 score look respectable, but anybody watching that game knew we sputtered 

2022 =Our offense puts up 10 points against the Bengals at home

 

We can talk about the defense until we are blue in the face. We will have to perform at a 2021 level for an entire playoff run on offense to have any chance at this. In doing so, we need to be able to efficiently march the ball down field. Something we really haven't done since the back half of 2021.  The defense has sucked in the playoffs, but the offense has as well. If we only allow 13 to the Bengals and they win 13-10, this is completely different perception. But that's all this is right now. A perception that the defense is preventing us from going further. At the end of the day the offense will be what decides this. 

 

 

[Nextmanup]

It's all offense; people talking about defense are older guys who grew up in the '50s, '60s, '70s and '80s hearing "Defense wins championships" and they aren't smart enough to adapt their thinking to a changing world.

 

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by Nextmanup

[JerseyBills]

9 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

It's all offense; people talking about defense are older guys who grew up in the '50s, '60s, '70s and '80s hearing "Defense wins championships" and they aren't smart enough to adapt their thinking to a changing world.

 

 

I was born in late 80s . I love what we did on D this off season,  most important thing is pass rush. That's how you disrupt an elite O. Add Von ,Floyd, to that Bengal game,  who knows what turnovers they cause or better field position they'd give us. Add in Daquan and Ford and are the Bengals able to run on us like that? I doubt it. Yes the O is huge but to totally discount the d is ridiculous 

[NewEra]

13 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

It's all offense; people talking about defense are older guys who grew up in the '50s, '60s, '70s and '80s hearing "Defense wins championships" and they aren't smart enough to adapt their thinking to a changing world.

 

 

You just continue to reinforce how smart you are.  

Edited June 30, 2023 by NewEra

[GoBills808]

The offense has vastly outperformed the defense in the playoffs

 

I don't think that's even debatable tbh

[Fleezoid]

I don't get that second paragraph. You're using one playoff game, Pats against the Chiefs to seemingly highlight what the Bills offense needs to do. That's one game. The Bills played a similar game against the Chiefs. The offense played lights out and the only difference in those 2 games was the coin toss. Pats won the toss, won the game. Same for the Chiefs. 

 

Yes, the Bills offense has struggled in a couple of playoff games, but I don't think it's a strong enough argument to flip the tables on this. I'm still of the mindset that the D needs to be a better. We need more big plays. Especially in the playoffs. 

[Airseven]

Bottom line is that Allen imploded against the Texans (‘19) and Chiefs (‘20) and was ineffective against the Dolphins and Bengals (‘22). He was terrific in ‘21, but McDermott wasted it. It’s frustrating how competitive the Bills have become but yet the end result continues to be disastrous somehow.

[LABILLBACKER]

13 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

The offense has vastly outperformed the defense in the playoffs

 

I don't think that's even debatable tbh

We're not asking the defense in the playoffs to shut anyone out or hold teams under 20 points. But you can't go down 14-0 against Cincy and a banged up OL by the time I get back from my refrigerator. That's inexcusable. How do our equipment guys get the cleats wrong. Dorsey to some extent struggled in his rookie season. Josh wills this team to a top5 offense status by just showing up.  But we need an opportunistic D like KC has, in order to beat teams while still allowing 20+ points.  

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, Airseven said:

Bottom line is that Allen imploded against the Texans (‘19) and Chiefs (‘20) and was ineffective against the Dolphins and Bengals (‘22). He was terrific in ‘21, but McDermott wasted it. It’s frustrating how competitive the Bills have become but yet the end result continues to be disastrous somehow.

Lol he wasnt ineffective vs the Dolphins 

 

He would have gone for 400+ if Shakir doesn't drop that ball 

[julian]

3 minutes ago, Airseven said:

Bottom line is that Allen imploded against the Texans (‘19) and Chiefs (‘20) and was ineffective against the Dolphins and Bengals (‘22). He was terrific in ‘21, but McDermott wasted it. It’s frustrating how competitive the Bills have become but yet the end result continues to be disastrous somehow.

Ineffective against the dolphins? Without looking did Allen not have close to 400 total yards and 3 TDs ? And woulda had another 100 yards if not for drops… maybe I’m remembering wrong 

[HOUSE]

We are doomed

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, julian said:

Ineffective against the dolphins? Without looking did Allen not have close to 400 total yards and 3 TDs ? And woulda had another 100 yards if not for drops… maybe I’m remembering wrong 

 

He wasn't ineffective against Miami but it was a bit of a Josh Allen experience game. There were some mistakes that bogged the team down and put them in bad field position and then some elite level plays that got us our points

[Gregg]

If they get better production from the lines on both sides of the ball, then the Bills will have a great chance to win a championship. If it's more of the same from these past few seasons, then nothing will change, and it will most likely be another playoff disappointment.

[GoBills808]

15 minutes ago, julian said:

Ineffective against the dolphins? Without looking did Allen not have close to 400 total yards and 3 TDs ? And woulda had another 100 yards if not for drops… maybe I’m remembering wrong 

You remember correctly

 

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He wasn't ineffective against Miami but it was a bit of a Josh Allen experience game. There were some mistakes that bogged the team down and put them in bad field position and then some elite level plays that got us our points

I remember this game perfectly because it was like the second half of the season distilled

 

Dolphins were absolutely daring Dorsey/Allen to keep taking the deep option, like 1v1 no safety on blitzes...they were the right looks imo

 

The INT to Brown I still think he ran the wrong route and the one off Beasley's chest is kind of unavoidable...the sack fumble he could probably tuck that one but half the time he's going to duck out of it and make a big play so I am going to live w that one

 

there was way more good than bad from Allen in that game imo you cannot call it ineffective

[Fleezoid]

Well, we got about a little less than 4 weeks before training camp. When do we start hammering the Special Teams?

 

[Mikie2times]

54 minutes ago, Fleezoid said:

I don't get that second paragraph. You're using one playoff game, Pats against the Chiefs to seemingly highlight what the Bills offense needs to do. That's one game. The Bills played a similar game against the Chiefs. The offense played lights out and the only difference in those 2 games was the coin toss. Pats won the toss, won the game. Same for the Chiefs. 

 

Yes, the Bills offense has struggled in a couple of playoff games, but I don't think it's a strong enough argument to flip the tables on this. I'm still of the mindset that the D needs to be a better. We need more big plays. Especially in the playoffs. 

I'm highlighting one game to show how our perceptions of what is and isn't an issue have become very clouded. It didn't end up being 16 seconds for the Patriots because they overcame it. It didn't end up being a defensive issue for KC because they overcame it the next year. They both did this on offense. Nearly every team has to overcome on offense in the playoffs as we nearly did in 2021. But the reality is, we have not performed even close to that level before or since and if you look at our broader playoff performances on offense they lack the quality and consistency that we tend to see in the regular season. 

 

Based on 2021 and the poor defensive performance and how we lost 13 seconds, I think most people around here think the offense is fine come playoff time. It hasn't been. This would be much more obvious to most if the defense wasn't horrendous in our losses. But the fact is even if it wasn't, we still likely lose all three games. We see 20 to 1 ratios identifying playoff defense as the main problem. Playoff offense is just as big of a problem. The consistency isn't there and it goes past just 1 game involving KC and the Patriots to know you need to have elite consistency, clutch play, and the ability to score a ton of points if you want to make the Super Bowl. 

47 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

We are doomed

No, we just need to perform more consistently. It's all phases, people are just obsessed with defense.

[GoBills808]

56 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

I'm highlighting one game to show how our perceptions of what is and isn't an issue have become very clouded. It didn't end up being 16 seconds for the Patriots because they overcame it. It didn't end up being a defensive issue for KC because they overcame it the next year. They both did this on offense. Nearly every team has to overcome on offense in the playoffs as we nearly did in 2021. But the reality is, we have not performed even close to that level before or since and if you look at our broader playoff performances on offense they lack the quality and consistency that we tend to see in the regular season. 

 

Based on 2021 and the poor defensive performance and how we lost 13 seconds, I think most people around here think the offense is fine come playoff time. It hasn't been. This would be much more obvious to most if the defense wasn't horrendous in our losses. But the fact is even if it wasn't, we still likely lose all three games. We see 20 to 1 ratios identifying playoff defense as the main problem. Playoff offense is just as big of a problem. The consistency isn't there and it goes past just 1 game involving KC and the Patriots to know you need to have elite consistency, clutch play, and the ability to score a ton of points if you want to make the Super Bowl. 

No, we just need to perform more consistently. It's all phases, people are just obsessed with defense.

going to quote myself from another thread

 

On 6/29/2023 at 6:51 AM, GoBills808 said:

The answer is defense needs to improve in the playoffs, which is a result of preparation and game plannning

 

Over the last 3 seasons the Bills and Bengals have each played 7 playoff games against many common opponents. I think it's fair to say the Bengals have experienced much more postseason success

 

In those 7 games, here are ppg averages for offense and defense

 

Bengals O: 23.28ppg

Bills O: 27.85ppg

 

Bengals D: 18.85ppg

Bills: 26ppg

 

[Mikie2times]

19 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

going to quote myself from another thread

 

 

We have posted under 20 points 3 times in the playoffs since 2019 in 3 separate years. It could easily be 4 times if it wasn’t for garbage TD’s vs KC in 2020. We also could have had 10 points two separate years if it wasn’t for a pick 6. KC has put up under 20 one time in that span vs the Bucs and the Bengals, who play a vastly different style than we do, have done it once. The last team to win a Super Bowl and do it while scoring less than 20 points in the playoffs during that run was in 2018. 
 

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by Mikie2times

[Warriorspikes51]

 

2 hours ago, Airseven said:

Bottom line is that Allen imploded against the Texans (‘19) and Chiefs (‘20) and was ineffective against the Dolphins and Bengals (‘22). He was terrific in ‘21, but McDermott wasted it. It’s frustrating how competitive the Bills have become but yet the end result continues to be disastrous somehow.

 

What? He had 352 yards and 3TDs in that game (should have been 4, the overruled TD was dumb) not to mention there were a few drops on deep passes. He easily could have thrown for 400 yards and 4TDs

Edited June 30, 2023 by Warriorspikes51

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

We have posted under 20 points 3 times in the playoffs since 2019 in 3 separate years. It could easily be 4 times if it wasn’t for garbage TD’s vs KC in 2020. We also could have had 10 points two separate years if it wasn’t for a pick 6. KC has put up under 20 one time in that span vs the Bucs and the Bengals, who play a vastly different style than we do, have done it once. 
 

 

as if the Bengals defense hasn't scored a TD against that same team I guess, and that game wasn't even played in a hurricane

 

we average 4+ more points on offense in the postseason than the Bengals, which is enormous. The difference is their defense doesn't throw up all over itself in the playoffs. Your thesis needs work