Pats give DeVante Parker a Big Extension

[PatsFanNH]

8 hours ago, Nelius said:

LOL go Pats. Jakobi Myers might honestly be better at this point so very weird WR to sink money into as a pseudo-1. All is not well in New England. I'll buy the hype for the Fish and the Jets and the AFC East being a warzone, but NE might be bottom 5 at the end of the year.

That is not WR1 type money. It is more on par with a 2 or 3 type money.  As for Meyers I wish they had signed him over JuJu just because he and Jones had chemistry. 

[Beast]

On 6/28/2023 at 11:10 PM, Einstein said:

Bill Belichick.

Great coach. Terrible GM.

Bill Belichick.

 

Overrated coach. Brady carried him. Dime a dozen without Brady.

 

***** GM.

 

Belichick may be the most fortunate coach in NFL history.

Edited June 30, 2023 by Beast

[Einstein]

47 minutes ago, Beast said:

Bill Belichick.

 

Overrated coach. Brady carried him. Dime a dozen without Brady.

 

Belichick won a Super Bowl in Brady’s first season starting when Brady was 59% passing for 145 yards and 1 TD in the Super Bowl.

 

Brady didn’t carry jack squat that year.

 

Belichick won his second Super Bowl in 2003 when Brady had 23 TD’s and 12 INT. To put that into perspective, Ryan Fitzpatrick had a nearly identical season with us in 2010, when he had 23 TD’s and 15 INT.

 

Brady didn’t carry jack squat that year either.

 

Brady didn’t have a single season with more than 28 TD’s until Belichick already had 3 rings. Allen has had more than 28 TD’s for 4 seasons now. If Brady carried Belichick with those meager stats, then Allen has been overhead shoulder presses of McDermott for nearly half a decade now.

 

Belichick also went 11-5 with Matt Cassell as his QB and went to the playoffs with Mac Jones.

 

Belichick also shut down our k-gun offense in the 90’s when practically no one else could.

 

He is great. Admitting it doesn’t make you less of a Bills fan. But not admitting it does make you look foolish.

[RoyBatty is alive]

48 minutes ago, Beast said:

Bill Belichick.

 

Overrated coach. Brady carried him. Dime a dozen without Brady.

 

***** GM.

 

Belichick may be the most fortunate coach in NFL history.

I dont disagree with you at all, but begrudgingly, Belichek has made some great gm  moves in the Patriot way by trading very popular players as they wee nearing their peak so he could get top value for them and the list is long.  Belichek did a great job resurrecting (IMO) randy moss and in the Patriot way when Moss was washed up traded him away.

[BADOLBILZ]

On 6/29/2023 at 9:33 AM, Billl said:

The guy won two of the last 3 MVPs. 

 

 

I think you have to look at Aaron Rodgers' drop-off last season.    He was far from an MVP last season.    Saying "two of the last 3" under those circumstances is like saying Tom Brady, Matt Ryan and Cam Newton have won 3 of the last 8 MVP's.   It's proof of their ability if you believe they are still that level of player but just trivia if you think they've fallen off significantly. 

[Einstein]

4 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I think you have to look at Aaron Rodgers' drop-off last season.  

 

It’s pretty much impossible to know whether the drop off was due to Rogers or due to that awful team they put around him.

[Beck Water]

On 6/28/2023 at 11:07 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

That's the market for guys like Gabe and MVS.   Big boundary WR who you hope will be your WR3 if all goes right.

 

Market for a player like Devante Parker, reasonable take

 

Market for 'WR who you hope will be your WR3...."....Factually, there are 31 players (including Parker) with a contract AAV of $11M/yr and above.

Who are the "WR who you hope will be your WR3 if all goes right" on this list?  Some WR2 there.  WR3?????

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/contracts/sort-average/wide-receiver/limit-100/

 

Does it strike you as weird that the Pats let Jakobi Meyers (age 26) walk in FA for a 3 yr, $33M contract with the Raiders, and are now extending Devonte Parker (age 30) the same deal?  Meyers had ~5 r/g for 57 ypg, 12 y/r and almost 70% catch %.  Parker had 2.4 r/g for 42 ypg, 17 y/r and 66% catch %. 

 

I don't watch either team unless they're playing the Bills.  Obviously Bill O'Brien thinks Parker brings something to the offense that Meyers didn't but if it's a deep threat, paying a 30 yr old seems strange.

 

13 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

I dont disagree with you at all, but begrudgingly, Belichek has made some great gm  moves in the Patriot way by trading very popular players as they wee nearing their peak so he could get top value for them and the list is long.  Belichek did a great job resurrecting (IMO) randy moss and in the Patriot way when Moss was washed up traded him away.

 

All true, but it seems to me a big part of the engine that fueled those great gm moves was Tom Brady and the Patriots record of winning championships.  Players were willing to take less than market value to play for the Pats with Tom Brady, so he had a ready pipeline to backfill when he traded away peak performers who were starting to clamor for market value pay.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, PatsFanNH said:

That is not WR1 type money. It is more on par with a 2 or 3 type money.  

 

 

You are correct but at the same time I'd hate it as a fan.    Definitely one of those signings that can only be popular among the myopic in the fan base because AT BEST you might come close to getting your money's worth out of it on an individual player basis.   But again.......that's the market that the Chiefs set with a guy like MVS.   People spent years talking about how the Packers were Davante Adams and a bunch of garbage at WR and then a championship team turns around and gives Green Bay's WR2 an 8 figure aav contract.  And then he played that role just like he always did......but as the 3rd option instead of the 2nd option........and they won a SB.  

[Billl]

5 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I think you have to look at Aaron Rodgers' drop-off last season.    He was far from an MVP last season.    Saying "two of the last 3" under those circumstances is like saying Tom Brady, Matt Ryan and Cam Newton have won 3 of the last 8 MVP's.   It's proof of their ability if you believe they are still that level of player but just trivia if you think they've fallen off significantly. 

Of course, but 26/12 while completing 65% of his passes is still a really strong season given the lack of weapons and loss of his OC.  It’s not like he wasn’t still a great QB even though it was a down year by his standards.  It wasn’t all that far off of Allen’s season, and his QBR was nearly identical to Allen’s 2021 season.  People were preparing for his demise back in 2017, and that clearly didn’t happen.  

 

It’s always possible that he falls off a cliff, but the much more likely scenario is that he, along with his longtime OC, provides a MASSIVE upgrade to the historically bad QB play that the Jets got last season.  He’s very likely still a top 5 QB, certainly top 10.  I’m always amused by the amount of posters who want to pretend that Rodgers and Hackett are some sort of punchline.

[BADOLBILZ]

24 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Market for a player like Devante Parker, reasonable take

 

Market for 'WR who you hope will be your WR3...."....Factually, there are 31 players (including Parker) with a contract AAV of $11M/yr and above.

Who are the "WR who you hope will be your WR3 if all goes right" on this list?  Some WR2 there.  WR3?????

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/contracts/sort-average/wide-receiver/limit-100/

 

Does it strike you as weird that the Pats let Jakobi Meyers (age 26) walk in FA for a 3 yr, $33M contract with the Raiders, and are now extending Devonte Parker (age 30) the same deal?  Meyers had ~5 r/g for 57 ypg, 12 y/r and almost 70% catch %.  Parker had 2.4 r/g for 42 ypg, 17 y/r and 66% catch %. 

 

I don't watch either team unless they're playing the Bills.  Obviously Bill O'Brien thinks Parker brings something to the offense that Meyers didn't but if it's a deep threat, paying a 30 yr old seems strange.

 

 

All true, but it seems to me a big part of the engine that fueled those great gm moves was Tom Brady and the Patriots record of winning championships.  Players were willing to take less than market value to play for the Pats with Tom Brady, so he had a ready pipeline to backfill when he traded away peak performers who were starting to clamor for market value pay.

 

 

I'm a little surprised there are AS MANY as 31 WR's at $11M and above.

 

As you well know......you can't stack contracts and say "well that's 31st and there are only 32 teams so that is a WR1 contract".    There are lot's of players on rookie contracts who are top 2 WR and then there are players that were signed to deals when the cap was much lower.    If you add those up and he falls in the mid WR2 range.........that makes sense for a veteran with good timing on his contract.    As the past 6 years or so of SB history have told us you really want a WR1 as your WR2 if you expect to reach a SB.    And you want a mid level WR2 as your WR3.   Critically important position in the game today.

 

As for Jakobi Meyers.........yeah I think he is a better WR than Parker.   That doesn't necessarily change Parker's individual value to a team that thinks they can win a SB,  which maybe the Pats feel like now.    Maybe they thought for sure they were going to come down with a top WR on draft day but had to pull the trigger when such a talented CB was on the board.  So their plans got re-arranged.

 

And I didn't say I'd like the deal.   Quite the opposite,  if Beane made that deal I'd feel the same way I feel about paying a terribly rated guard like Connor McGovern $7M per year or a relative scrub WR like Deonte Harty above $2M flier level.    On what they've done to this point in their careers?   Big overpays.  But in Parker's case you can at least point to the market for a 600+ yard per season veteran WR.   I don't know where the market for Connor McGovern and Harty came from.   That arose from thin air it seems.  

 

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by BADOLBILZ

[BADOLBILZ]

27 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

It’s pretty much impossible to know whether the drop off was due to Rogers or due to that awful team they put around him.

 

Maybe but VERY reasonable to speculate that he might be past a full bounce back stage either way entering his age 40 season.    

[Captain Hindsight]

32 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

It’s pretty much impossible to know whether the drop off was due to Rogers or due to that awful team they put around him.

Oh please, he had a great o line, a top running attack and a few young WRs. He was hurt, but he also didn't lack for talent. 

 

I am very curious to see how he does with the Jets. For the first time in his career he is playing for a defensive minded HC and his OC was an absolutely train wreck when he was in charge of the offense on his own (with a damn good QB too). The Jets will be better, but I think Rodgers days as an MVP level QB are long gone

[Beast]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

Belichick won a Super Bowl in Brady’s first season starting when Brady was 59% passing for 145 yards and 1 TD in the Super Bowl.

 

Brady didn’t carry jack squat that year.

 

Belichick won his second Super Bowl in 2003 when Brady had 23 TD’s and 12 INT. To put that into perspective, Ryan Fitzpatrick had a nearly identical season with us in 2010, when he had 23 TD’s and 15 INT.

 

Brady didn’t carry jack squat that year either.

 

Brady didn’t have a single season with more than 28 TD’s until Belichick already had 3 rings. Allen has had more than 28 TD’s for 4 seasons now. If Brady carried Belichick with those meager stats, then Allen has been overhead shoulder presses of McDermott for nearly half a decade now.

 

Belichick also went 11-5 with Matt Cassell as his QB and went to the playoffs with Mac Jones.

 

Belichick also shut down our k-gun offense in the 90’s when practically no one else could.

 

He is great. Admitting it doesn’t make you less of a Bills fan. But not admitting it does make you look foolish.

He sucks.

79-87 without Tom Brady.

 

That is worse than Lovie Smith in the win percentage column.

 

Lovie Belichick.

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Maybe but VERY reasonable to speculate that he might be past a full bounce back stage either way entering his age 40 season.    

 

That would indeed be wonderful. The thought of the Jets wasting all those picks and money on a washed up player gives me great joy.

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Captain Hindsight said:

Oh please, he had a great o line, a top running attack and a few young WRs. He was hurt, but he also didn't lack for talent. 

 

I am very curious to see how he does with the Jets. For the first time in his career he is playing for a defensive minded HC and his OC was an absolutely train wreck when he was in charge of the offense on his own (with a damn good QB too). The Jets will be better, but I think Rodgers days as an MVP level QB are long gone

 

Rodgers:  "I must leave Green Bay, they give me NOTHING at WR"

Rodgers: "Now that I'm with the Jets, please sign my GB WR Allen Lazard and Randall Cobb"

 

We'll see how that works out.

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

I'm a little surprised there are AS MANY as 31 WR's at $11M and above.

 

As you well know......you can't stack contracts and say "well that's 31st and there are only 32 teams so that is a WR1 contract".    There are lot's of players on rookie contracts who are top 2 WR and then there are players that were signed to deals when the cap was much lower.    If you add those up and he falls in the mid WR2 range.........that makes sense for a veteran with good timing on his contract.  

 

OK, so it sounds like we agree that Parker is a WR2 getting paid like a good WR2.  And I think that's where Davis will slot (sounds like you agree)

 

Yes, I'm aware you can't look at the top 31 contracts and say "those are the WR1" for the reasons you cite.  That's why I just asked who on that list you saw as the WR3? 

 

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

As the past 6 years or so of SB history have told us you really want a WR1 as your WR2 if you expect to reach a SB.    And you want a mid level WR2 as your WR3.  Critically important position in the game today.

 

It would certainly be desirable to have a WR-1 capable guy as our WR2 and a WR2-type as our WR3, but I'm not sure that's what the last few Superbowls really showed us.  For example, was TikTok Boy a WR1 playing 2nd receiver for the Chiefs?  JSS put up #1 type numbers once upon a time with Big Ben, but hindsight seems to say that was the Antonio Brown effect and when he became "#1" on the team, it was learned he wasn't?  Was MVS a WR2 playing 3rd receiver for the Chiefs?  The situation you cite is surely true of the Bengals and the Eagles, but was it true of the 2021 Rams - Van Jefferson, Really?  The 2020 Bucs - is Chris Godwin a WR1 playing WR2 or another case of a guy making yards behind an unreal #1?  The 2018 and 2019 Pats?  I mean, the 2nd receiver for yards on the 2018 and 2019 pats was an RB fergoshsakes.

 

 

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

And I didn't say I'd like the deal.   Quite the opposite,  if Beane made that deal I'd feel the same way I feel about paying a terribly rated guard like Connor McGovern

 

I'm interested in this.  Where is he terribly rated, and by whom?

[billieve420]

 

Parker is not going to do any favors for Mac Jones. Aging player who gets dinged up a lot. A guy who can’t separate and gets QB in trouble because he is now forced to throw contested passes.

[BADOLBILZ]

47 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

OK, so it sounds like we agree that Parker is a WR2 getting paid like a good WR2.  And I think that's where Davis will slot (sounds like you agree)

 

Yes, I'm aware you can't look at the top 31 contracts and say "those are the WR1" for the reasons you cite.  That's why I just asked who on that list you saw as the WR3? 

 

 

It would certainly be desirable to have a WR-1 capable guy as our WR2 and a WR2-type as our WR3, but I'm not sure that's what the last few Superbowls really showed us.  For example, was TikTok Boy a WR1 playing 2nd receiver for the Chiefs?  JSS put up #1 type numbers once upon a time with Big Ben, but hindsight seems to say that was the Antonio Brown effect and when he became "#1" on the team, it was learned he wasn't?  Was MVS a WR2 playing 3rd receiver for the Chiefs?  The situation you cite is surely true of the Bengals and the Eagles, but was it true of the 2021 Rams - Van Jefferson, Really?  The 2020 Bucs - is Chris Godwin a WR1 playing WR2 or another case of a guy making yards behind an unreal #1?  The 2018 and 2019 Pats?  I mean, the 2nd receiver for yards on the 2018 and 2019 pats was an RB fergoshsakes.

 

 

 

I'm interested in this.  Where is he terribly rated, and by whom?

 

1. Yes if your squad goal is just to be "in the hunt" for a wildcard spot still at Thanksgiving then Parker is an adequate WR2.    If you expect to be playing in February he'd better CLEARLY be your WR3.   The position has become that much of an indicator of success.   

 

2. McGovern had a dreadful 52 overall rating with PFF.   And then he and Edwards(58) images were used in a re-tweet about PFF offensive line unit rankings like they were big upgrades.    Whatever people want to say about PFF.........if you are south of 60 on their scale you are clearly putting a lot of bad on tape. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

This is great news 

[stevewin]

On 6/30/2023 at 9:23 AM, Beast said:

Bill Belichick.

 

Overrated coach. Brady carried him. Dime a dozen without Brady.

 

***** GM.

 

Belichick may be the most fortunate coach in NFL history.

Always amazes me people bring up the Brady thing with Bellicheat but not the cheating