Did we do enough? I think we are getting there.

[newcam2012]

7 hours ago, stuvian said:

it feels like we are buying a SB rather rather than building a system for long term success like the Steelers or (gasp) Patriots

I disagree here. I really don't feel like the Bills are buying a SB. They have added Von but thats really the only big splash guy in quite awhile. 

 

They are trying to develop giys like Boogie, AJ, Rousseau, Oliver, Elam, Cook, Davis, etc. 

 

The majority of the Bills off season moves haven't been big money acquisitions. 

 

The real issue or problem if you will is the lack of production from draft choices, misses, or mediocre play. Couple that with some past pick ups that didn't pan out. 

 

In short, I'm not seeing how the regime is trying to buy a championship. Just my opinion. 

[Eastport bills]

The additions on the O-line and D-line are the most impactful. I see our O-line being improved with the new guards, especially McGovern and Torrence, and Shell backing up Brown. It may take 3 or 4 games to be coordinated but addition by subtraction with Saffold moving out. The running game and pass protection will be better and that will bring the best out of Josh. Kincaid, Sherfield, and Davis should all be big contributors with balanced play calling. The D-line will be better at run defense with Ford and Settle rotating with DeQuan and Oliver. Factor in Rapp and Hyde back with Poyer and White in our secondary and you have arguably the best group in many years. With Sean calling a more aggressive defense and Dorsey one year removed from being new on the job, this team is very scary. 

On 6/28/2023 at 2:24 PM, BuffaloBillyG said:

Not really. Most of the guys mentioned are in year 1 or 2 of their NFL career. I think it's fair to say they may end up fringe starters but you or I have no idea how guys like Cook, Elam or Benford will turn out in their second year. Or guys like Kincaid or Torrence will be this year (let alone next). Brown looked like a fringe guy last year, but had some solid play his rookie season. No saying how he will be this year if back to full health. We 

[ganesh]

On 6/30/2023 at 3:01 PM, newcam2012 said:

I disagree here. I really don't feel like the Bills are buying a SB. They have added Von but thats really the only big splash guy in quite awhile. 

 

They are trying to develop giys like Boogie, AJ, Rousseau, Oliver, Elam, Cook, Davis, etc. 

 

The majority of the Bills off season moves haven't been big money acquisitions. 

 

The real issue or problem if you will is the lack of production from draft choices, misses, or mediocre play. Couple that with some past pick ups that didn't pan out. 

 

In short, I'm not seeing how the regime is trying to buy a championship. Just my opinion. 

Agree with you,  The Bills have tried to build through the draft and get mid-tier FA except for Morse and Miller (and previously Star),   Both Hyde and Poyer were low key signings that have gone on to build a great career with the Bills (and are as good as Bills draftees). 

 

We have had good to reasonable success with Dawkins, White, Edmunds, Oliver, Singletary, Knox

Warming up for success are Cook, Elam, Groot and Benford, Davis

Hoping to have success with Brown, Basham and Epenesa, Shakir

Failed heavily with Cody Ford, Moss and several. 4th/5th rounders that did not make the team

 

The key to our SB run will be if Cook, Elam, Groot, Davis and Benford can turn in a super season and Brown, Basham, Shakir and Epenesa can hold their fort.   These players have the talent to be super stars in the NFL and this is the year for them to put it all together

[maddenboy]

On 6/29/2023 at 7:12 PM, stuvian said:

it feels like we are buying a SB rather rather than building a system for long term success like the Steelers or (gasp) Patriots

au contraire.   It feels frustratingly like we are Not spending properly to get a superbowl This year.   over the past couple years.

 

it feels like we are doing nothing to win the superbowl This year.   We are only making moves to be "competitive" this year.

A team that bases its season on "make the playoffs and anything can happen" is not loading up to win the superbowl This year.

 

It doesnt require buying a superbowl like the Rams.   But many of us think the money must be better spent.  On difference-makers. 

 

Of which, if von is perfectly healthy we will have exactly 3.   That's not enough to win the superbowl This year.   Its only enough to be consistently above average, if everything else goes right.

 

------

Put another way:  Right now, Andy Reid's whole life is "we are winning the superbowl This year, unless some crazy shtt happens."

 

Edited July 5, 2023 by maddenboy

[Motorin']

On 6/28/2023 at 12:27 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

According to PFF they addressed their interior OL problem with 2 OL that were bad in 2022 and two rookies.

 

I get that fans want to imagine that guys like McGovern, Edwards, Harty and Sherfield will all play SO MUCH better than they were last year because Beane's crystal ball has foretold it...........but they are just shots in the dark not an indication that they've surely made strides in those areas of weakness.

 

 

 

I agree with you on fan's wishful thinking about new players ability to overperform. 

 

And here's the one player I could be accused of doing it with... I'm hopeful that McGovern's pass protection is a vast improvement over Saffold. And that he's actually been graded as a top 10 pass blocking OG in the league.

 

Can't say that I had any basis for this hope prior to the Bills signing him and watching a bunch of videos. 

 

Do you think McGovern was bad last year in pass protection? Or just bad run blocking? 

Edited July 5, 2023 by Motorin'

[gobills404]

On 6/29/2023 at 10:12 PM, stuvian said:

it feels like we are buying a SB rather rather than building a system for long term success like the Steelers or (gasp) Patriots

Can we at least actually win a SB before we complain about not becoming a dynasty? 

[BADOLBILZ]

10 hours ago, Motorin' said:

 

I agree with you on fan's wishful thinking about new players ability to overperform. 

 

And here's the one player I could be accused of doing it with... I'm hopeful that McGovern's pass protection is a vast improvement over Saffold. And that he's actually been graded as a top 10 pass blocking OG in the league.

 

Can't say that I had any basis for this hope prior to the Bills signing him and watching a bunch of videos. 

 

Do you think McGovern was bad last year in pass protection? Or just bad run blocking? 

 

Yeah I surely hope McGovern turns out to be good too.    You don't pay an interior OL who has never even been a full time starter the kind of money they did unless you think he's going to be A LOT better than he's ever been before.   But his pff grade last year was brutal.   To register a 52 score you have put a lot of bad on tape.   Clearly the splits were vastly different because his pass blocking was good and his run blocking was not.   And as I've said.......there is no such thing as a 3rd down guard........you can't be terrible at one aspect and be a good guard.   Saffold was even worse (42) but he was simply terrible snap-in-snap-out all season.    

[3rdand12]

18 hours ago, maddenboy said:

au contraire.   It feels frustratingly like we are Not spending properly to get a superbowl This year.   over the past couple years.

 

it feels like we are doing nothing to win the superbowl This year.   We are only making moves to be "competitive" this year.

A team that bases its season on "make the playoffs and anything can happen" is not loading up to win the superbowl This year.

 

It doesnt require buying a superbowl like the Rams.   But many of us think the money must be better spent.  On difference-makers. 

 

Of which, if von is perfectly healthy we will have exactly 3.   That's not enough to win the superbowl This year.   Its only enough to be consistently above average, if everything else goes right.

 

------

Put another way:  Right now, Andy Reid's whole life is "we are winning the superbowl This year, unless some crazy shtt happens."

 

Has anyone considered that Bills dot Org are depending on Coaching to develop the Team to win Regardess of how much money is spent , or not ?

 

Finding the right combination of players and getting them to excel might be the trusted method waiting to show its hand

 

Poyer and Hyde are fine examples of building a beast of a safety tandem, the Taron and White. This was as good as it could get honestly. And thats before they spent money on them.
 

I dont think its money

I thinks it is getting the right fit to match the "culture of Coaches " that will get Us there.

Star was an attempt. I think this Ford fellow might be what we wished Star was.
 Closer and closer we get. I wont list the subtle or not reasons how this Team really improved this offseason. Hope they prove themselves out

This year should be fun

 Go Bills

11 hours ago, Motorin' said:

 

I agree with you on fan's wishful thinking about new players ability to overperform. 

 

And here's the one player I could be accused of doing it with... I'm hopeful that McGovern's pass protection is a vast improvement over Saffold. And that he's actually been graded as a top 10 pass blocking OG in the league.

 

Can't say that I had any basis for this hope prior to the Bills signing him and watching a bunch of videos. 

 

Do you think McGovern was bad last year in pass protection? Or just bad run blocking? 

At times it could be one critical piece of the pie that brings the whole thing together.
A bad crust and you got bad pie. Period

Hello Roger I'm a pretty tired Saffold

[newcam2012]

26 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

Has anyone considered that Bills dot Org are depending on Coaching to develop the Team to win Regardess of how much money is spent , or not ?

 

Finding the right combination of players and getting them to excel might be the trusted method waiting to show its hand

 

Poyer and Hyde are fine examples of building a beast of a safety tandem, the Taron and White. This was as good as it could get honestly. And thats before they spent money on them.
 

I dont think its money

I thinks it is getting the right fit to match the "culture of Coaches " that will get Us there.

Star was an attempt. I think this Ford fellow might be what we wished Star was.
 Closer and closer we get. I wont list the subtle or not reasons how this Team really improved this offseason. Hope they prove themselves out

This year should be fun

 Go Bills

At times it could be one critical piece of the pie that brings the whole thing together.
A bad crust and you got bad pie. Period

Hello Roger I'm a pretty tired Saffold

The "culture of Coaches?" What does that mean? 

 

Pretty scary post here if you are not a big McD fan. 

 

Thus far the Bills coaches and their culture hasn't gotten it Right? They have not found the proper fits. Right? They have not picked up the right players. Right? So what gives you confidence this year will be different? Curious to hear your rationale.

 

One thing I agree on is the season should be fun. 

 

 

38 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

Has anyone considered that Bills dot Org are depending on Coaching to develop the Team to win Regardess of how much money is spent , or not ?

 

Finding the right combination of players and getting them to excel might be the trusted method waiting to show its hand

 

Poyer and Hyde are fine examples of building a beast of a safety tandem, the Taron and White. This was as good as it could get honestly. And thats before they spent money on them.
 

I dont think its money

I thinks it is getting the right fit to match the "culture of Coaches " that will get Us there.

Star was an attempt. I think this Ford fellow might be what we wished Star was.
 Closer and closer we get. I wont list the subtle or not reasons how this Team really improved this offseason. Hope they prove themselves out

This year should be fun

 Go Bills

At times it could be one critical piece of the pie that brings the whole thing together.
A bad crust and you got bad pie. Period

Hello Roger I'm a pretty tired Saffold

Who was responsible from being Saffold to Buffalo? 

 

Is that person still "baking the pie?"

 

Do the math. 

[without a drought]

I'm still worried about the holder, Sam Martin is 33. Not sure what he has left.

[3rdand12]

21 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

The "culture of Coaches?" What does that mean? 

 

Pretty scary post here if you are not a big McD fan. 

 

Thus far the Bills coaches and their culture hasn't gotten it Right? They have not found the proper fits. Right? They have not picked up the right players. Right? So what gives you confidence this year will be different? Curious to hear your rationale.

 

One thing I agree on is the season should be fun. 

 

 

Who was responsible from being Saffold to Buffalo? 

 

Is that person still "baking the pie?"

 

Do the math. 

I suggest they are still learning to match up Coaching skills to to Beanes Player acquisitions.

 Depending on The Coaching personnel in house to turn the corner (become serviceable to very serviceable with the staff.   Players who might be on the bubble for other teams

 

 

As compared to teams that spend.

 My response was about spending money to get a SB

I dont see that as the method.
 

But never been good at math 2012  🙂

8 hours ago, without a drought said:

I'm still worried about the holder, Sam Martin is 33. Not sure what he has left.

You are not the only one. It's surely a concern.

[newcam2012]

50 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

I suggest they are still learning to match up Coaching skills to to Beanes Player acquisitions.

 Depending on The Coaching personnel in house to turn the corner (become serviceable to very serviceable with the staff.   Players who might be on the bubble for other teams

 

 

As compared to teams that spend.

 My response was about spending money to get a SB

I dont see that as the method.
 

But never been good at math 2012  🙂

You are not the only one. It's surely a concern.

I'm more confused than before. It's all good...

[benderbender]

On 7/6/2023 at 10:42 AM, without a drought said:

I'm still worried about the holder, Sam Martin is 33. Not sure what he has left.

A very vocal segment of the forum was eager to start a rookie with no holding experience at all in college. So the basement for expectations is apparently low. 

[Saxum]

3 hours ago, benderbender said:

A very vocal segment of the forum was eager to start a rookie with no holding experience at all in college. So the basement for expectations is apparently low. 

 

That is due to the holder before Martin who set expectations really low.

 

Besides according to some experts on this board you do not need to play ST players any more than you pay the people who sell you overpriced beers in the stands.

[3rdand12]

On 7/6/2023 at 8:14 PM, newcam2012 said:

I'm more confused than before. It's all good...

its my MO i guess

😊

[GreggTX]

I love the Torrence addition. I think adding Edwards was a sneaky good move, but not a great one. I think signing McGovern for so long and so much was a terrible move that will set us back. We still need a starting caliber RT and McGovern needs an upgrade. We also are 2 WR's short of a solid starting 3. Also, everyone assumes Cook will be great. I'd like him to achieve mediocrity at least before I join that lovefest. I'm not saying it would easy to solve all those problems, but the answer is still no. We didn't do enough.

 

We'll be a good team this year, but I don't see a deep playoff run. We may not even win the AFCE.

Edited July 8, 2023 by GreggTX

[3rdand12]

17 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

I love the Torrence addition. I think adding Edwards was a sneaky good move, but not a great one. I think signing McGovern for so long and so much was a terrible move that will set us back. We still need a starting caliber RT and McGovern needs an upgrade. We also are 2 WR's short of a solid starting 3. Also, everyone assumes Cook will be great. I'd like him to achieve mediocrity at least before I join that lovefest. I'm not saying it would easy to solve all those problems, but the answer is still no. We didn't do enough.

 

We'll be a good team this year, but I don't see a deep playoff run. We may not even win the AFCE.

I think the players are there.
Coaching needs to maximize what resource they have

This comment also alludes to my response to newcam. Coaching needs to make hay while the sun shines.

Enough players to win the whole thing if injuries do not decimate the good depth Beane has in place.

 agree about Torrence. Edwards yes
on the fence about McGyver

 Wrs will shine if Ken  tightens up his act lol

Edited July 8, 2023 by 3rdand12

[newcam2012]

2 hours ago, GreggTX said:

I love the Torrence addition. I think adding Edwards was a sneaky good move, but not a great one. I think signing McGovern for so long and so much was a terrible move that will set us back. We still need a starting caliber RT and McGovern needs an upgrade. We also are 2 WR's short of a solid starting 3. Also, everyone assumes Cook will be great. I'd like him to achieve mediocrity at least before I join that lovefest. I'm not saying it would easy to solve all those problems, but the answer is still no. We didn't do enough.

 

We'll be a good team this year, but I don't see a deep playoff run. We may not even win the AFCE.

I think this is pretty spot on. The Bills need a lot of things to go just right in order to make a deep run.

 

The roster is solid but still lots of question marks in the trenches.

 

The WRs besides Diggs looks pretty average to weak.

 

The RB by committee looks pretty solid. Cook looks promising but he still has a lot to prove. 

 

Of course injuries will play a role as it does with any team. 

 

The coaching staff has to be better. Dorsey is a big question mark. No guarantees he gets better this year. Can the Bills D be better in the playoffs assuming the Bills get there? 

 

Lastly, I just have a difficult time thinking Buffalo will beat Cinci or KC if they meet again in the playoffs. 

[Ga boy]

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

I think this is pretty spot on. The Bills need a lot of things to go just right in order to make a deep run.

 

The roster is solid but still lots of question marks in the trenches.

 

The WRs besides Diggs looks pretty average to weak.

 

The RB by committee looks pretty solid. Cook looks promising but he still has a lot to prove. 

 

Of course injuries will play a role as it does with any team. 

 

The coaching staff has to be better. Dorsey is a big question mark. No guarantees he gets better this year. Can the Bills D be better in the playoffs assuming the Bills get there? 

 

Lastly, I just have a difficult time thinking Buffalo will beat Cinci or KC if they meet again in the playoffs. 

It seems that we match up against KC better than Cincy.  Cincy’s defense seems to be meaner and quicker.

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, Ga boy said:

It seems that we match up against KC better than Cincy.  Cincy’s defense seems to be meaner and quicker.

Mahomes just seems to know how to win. That oline is so good and Reid knows how to call plays. 

 

Mahomes will likely give Brady a run for his SB rings while Allen likely becomes the next Dan Marino and Jim Kelly. Great QBs with no rings to show for.