Did we do enough? I think we are getting there.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

10 minutes ago, AuntieEm said:

 

  I've heard it said kromer gets better results from players in their 2nd year in his system.  We will see on those returning and the new pieces might fit better.  Gotta think kromer had some input in the guys they brought in.

 

 

 

I’m sure he has input. Staffold was a Kromer guy. Staffold just can’t play anymore.

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, The Jokeman said:

Say what you want but the salary cap does exist to a degree as if Josh was on his rookie deal you better believe we'd see even better players added. 

That's the point. Beane missed the window of opportunity. The oline should have been solidified way back then. 

 

Now he's in scramble mode and left scrapping at the leftovers due to his own doing. 

 

The bad: Beane's errors have cost the Bills likely super bowls.

 

The good: Beanes6 pick of Allen changed the franchise and has led to multiple playoff appearences. 

 

 

1 hour ago, maddenboy said:

did we do enough What, exactly?

 

getting Where, exactly?

 

Did the team improve?  maybe, but that should not be the question.
 

Did we do enough to Win the Superbowl This Year.  I know the implied question is this.  But way more specifically, did we improve this unit enough to win it all?  And is this even the best question to ask?   I dont think it is.  

 

I'm not convinced that even if we swapped offensive lines with the Chiefs, or Bengals, or Eagles, or Niners, that we could beat any of them.

 

We need weapons.  And we need playmakers on Defense (who do actually make plays.  Besides Milano.   We do have good players.)

 

give me both of these, even with last year's O-Line, and we win this year (because one without the other is not gonna win this team a superbowl This year.  But weapons is the way more important of the two.  we are wasting a generational talent).

 

 

Weapons are nice but it all starts up front. That's the main reason why the Bills can't progress forward against the elites. 

 

Yes weapons clearly help but look at the Chiefs. They lacked weapons. 

 

The Bills have lots of potential weapons on offense. 

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea the salary cap exists…. And they are up against it without a ring because of failed moves by Beane and heavy defensive investments…. I’m questioning their strategy and their allocation of the cap dollars that they have had available. 

BINGO!!!!

[newcam2012]

45 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

Very excited to see what Torrence can bring to the table.

I keep asking myself we did the guy drop so far?  He feel for a reason. Many were saying he's a good run blocker and a poor pass blocker. Hopefully, he can contribute this season. Hard to get overly excited about a rookie playing in a Bills win now mentality. 

 

Reminds me of the Cody Ford situation. We will see how he play. 

[Jerome007]

Some of you are so negative. On paper, this OL is drastically improved, even the depth. Even Harris has a great rep as a pass blocker (but Motor was good too). We'll see how it plays in reality but it is looking good, real good. More time for Josh plus new weapons = unstoppable offense.

 

As if improving a #2 offense is that easy with the salary cap! Results matter but "on paper" this has been quite impressive by Beane.

[strive_for_five_guy]

8 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

I keep asking myself we did the guy drop so far?  He feel for a reason. Many were saying he's a good run blocker and a poor pass blocker. Hopefully, he can contribute this season. Hard to get overly excited about a rookie playing in a Bills win now mentality. 

 

Reminds me of the Cody Ford situation. We will see how he play. 

It’s a fair question.  I don’t claim to be an NFL talent evaluator myself, so hopefully Torrence proves a lot of teams wrong for passing on him.

[90sBills]

2 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Oh geez we’d role the 49ers before they went on their vaunted win streak they played the same Chiefs team at home that the Bills played and beat in KC a week earlier and KC let up or they could have laid 50 on them. The Eagles had the easiest schedule in the league last year and we can definitely play with them .  

The only team that there is a question mark about is the Bengals that’s who their rival really is now. 

I must have missed when Bills beat the Chiefs in the playoffs.

[BADOLBILZ]

11 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

The proof will come either way when the games kick off, for sure. Some things to consider.

 

1. Starting a statement out with "according to PFF" is pretty much like quoting Wikipedia as a source. PFF proves absolutely nothing and should be taken with a huge grain of salt IMO.

 

2. McGovern's strength is reported to be his pass blocking. Which was a huge weakness last year. Immediate pressure up the middle in Allen's face way too often. Being that he only has to be better than Saffold was last year...I think we can expect an upgrade. How much remains to be seen. Edwards spent much of last year injured, however prior to that was pretty solid under Kromer. It's logical to think he could have some bounce back. One of the 2 rookies was considered by some as the top G prospect in the draft. Gave up zero sacks in his college career and is a stout pass blocker. Again, reasonable to expect at some point him to be an improvement.

 

3. Harty and Sherfield are basically this year's McKenzie and Kumerow replacements. Being TD Jesus missed most of the year and McKenzie was at times a disaster...the bar there isn't real high for improvement, either. Now add in Kincaid as well to that mix and again, reasonable to believe the cumulative output will eclipse what we had last year.

 

While some (not directed at you) like to take the pessimistic approach and say that this changes aren't enough because they aren't already proven...other can see things from a different angle. And neither side is wrong...until the pads go on the games kick off and we see how everything blends together. What's interesting to me is that as a team coming off 13 wins, a top offense in the league and a perennial playoff team...we have a ton of competition for starting spots or meaningful roles going into this season. This should be fun!

 

1. The premise of tweet the thread is "according to PFF".    So why are you taking it up with me instead of the OP?

 

2. Since the premise of the thread is "according to PFF".........McGovern was terrible per pff.    Not bad as a pass blocker but totally unplayable bad in the run game.......and ya' know.........there isn't such a thing as a 3rd down guard now is there?

 

3. Yep Harty and Sherfield = McKenzie and Kumerow.........in enough ways that it wouldn't even be a surprise if they weren't an upgrade.   I do think that since he's a name changer it would be a show of solidarity for Deonte to change his last name to "Sharty" since he's part of Sherfield, Shakir and Shorter WR's 3-6 unit. 

 

And it's not about being optimistic or pessimistic..........you can dream on James Cook rushing for 2,000 yards and not be proven wrong until January.   It's about what is realistic to expect.   After guys are 4-5 years into the league they very rarely change from a nobody to a star out of nowhere.    It's pretty rare.

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Our offense has ranked top 3 in points 3 straight seasons without a top OL.

They have ups and downs throughout every season. Saying they’re in trouble or going to be bad next year is a hot take. It’s not likely to happen unless Allen or Diggs miss games.

 

Who said the Bills offense is "in trouble or going to be bad next year"?

 

 I've literally never seen someone say anything like that here or anywhere in print (edit: THIS offseason).

 

Unfortunately, the further we get into the offseason some people just forget that the games aren't played on paper.    At this time last year people were assuming Rodger Saffold was going to be a solid veteran addition and dreaming on what OJ Howard and Jamison Crowder were going to do in the Bills offense.     Some even thought Tavon Austin was about to come into his own.   Seriously, they were.   Maybe you were one of them? 

Edited June 28, 2023 by BADOLBILZ

[BADOLBILZ]

5 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said:

At the end of last season, Saffold posted on Twitter, about how much he enjoyed playing for the Bills.

I posted the somewhat cryptic question: Where are you playing, next year? 😇

 

 

He could buy into Daryl Williams offensive line camp business.........Trench Mob Academy........and make it "The Mob That Beane Built".

 

https://www.facebook.com/people/Trench_Mobb_academy/100087945522389/

[Rico]

28 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

1. The premise of tweet the thread is "according to PFF".    So why are you taking it up with me instead of the OP?

 

2. Since the premise of the thread is "according to PFF".........McGovern was terrible per pff.    Not bad as a pass blocker but totally unplayable bad in the run game.......and ya' know.........there isn't such a thing as a 3rd down guard now is there?

 

3. Yep Harty and Sherfield = McKenzie and Kumerow.........in enough ways that it wouldn't even be a surprise if they weren't an upgrade.   I do think that since he's a name changer it would be a show of solidarity for Deonte to change his last name to "Sharty" since he's part of Sherfield, Shakir and Shorter WR's 3-6 unit. 

 

And it's not about being optimistic or pessimistic..........you can dream on James Cook rushing for 2,000 yards and not be proven wrong until January.   It's about what is realistic to expect.   After guys are 4-5 years into the league they very rarely change from a nobody to a star out of nowhere.    It's pretty rare.

To me, the 3 names you just dropped as newcomers: McGovern, Harty, and Sharfield... are scrubs that their teams didn't want to keep. I'm by no means writing them off, but my expectations are low. I also had zero expectations for Cole Beasley from the Cowboys though, so I hope to be pleasantly surprised again.

[BuffaloBillyG]

25 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

1. The premise of tweet the thread is "according to PFF".    So why are you taking it up with me instead of the OP?

 

2. Since the premise of the thread is "according to PFF".........McGovern was terrible per pff.    Not bad as a pass blocker but totally unplayable bad in the run game.......and ya' know.........there isn't such a thing as a 3rd down guard now is there?

 

3. Yep Harty and Sherfield = McKenzie and Kumerow.........in enough ways that it wouldn't even be a surprise if they weren't an upgrade.   I do think that since he's a name changer it would be a show of solidarity for Deonte to change his last name to "Sharty" since he's part of Sherfield, Shakir and Shorter WR's 3-6 unit. 

 

And it's not about being optimistic or pessimistic..........you can dream on James Cook rushing for 2,000 yards and not be proven wrong until January.   It's about what is realistic to expect.   After guys are 4-5 years into the league they very rarely change from a nobody to a star out of nowhere.    It's pretty rare.

Ok...

 

1.  I was responding to you. I included my thoughts on PFF and their accuracy. 

 

2. McGovern was "totally unplayable" in run blocking...but somehow the Cowboys managed to end up 8th overall in rushing yards last year with a broke down Zeke handling a lot of the runs. Odd. Being that he has to replace Saffold if McGovern doesn't fall over at the snap...there's an upgrade. And even if he does it may still work better.

 

3. Half of what you reply here is utter nonsense. But I will reply with this. McKenzie wasn't a trail blazer. 42 catches for a bit over 400 yards is what he had. In this offense it's almost silly to think production out of the slot won't be upgraded between Sherfield, Harty and Kincaid. 

 

Nowhere did I say anything about Cook going for 2,000 yards or anyone being a "star". Making things up to overblow your opinion is a weird thing to do. Fortunately, we don't need stars. We need football players that play a role on the team. Cook will have a role. Harty, Sherfield, Kincaid, Cook, Harris....none of them have to be NFL All Pros. They need to play their spot and make the most of opportunity. Will they? I have no idea. But neither do you.  That's the whole point. 

[Success]

Brown is absolutely the key to this line. I think every other position on that line is set for 2023, and can be an elite unit.

 

But a line is only as good as its weakest link.  Brown has to take that next step that we have all thought he is capable of.

 

[newcam2012]

47 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

1. The premise of tweet the thread is "according to PFF".    So why are you taking it up with me instead of the OP?

 

2. Since the premise of the thread is "according to PFF".........McGovern was terrible per pff.    Not bad as a pass blocker but totally unplayable bad in the run game.......and ya' know.........there isn't such a thing as a 3rd down guard now is there?

 

3. Yep Harty and Sherfield = McKenzie and Kumerow.........in enough ways that it wouldn't even be a surprise if they weren't an upgrade.   I do think that since he's a name changer it would be a show of solidarity for Deonte to change his last name to "Sharty" since he's part of Sherfield, Shakir and Shorter WR's 3-6 unit. 

 

And it's not about being optimistic or pessimistic..........you can dream on James Cook rushing for 2,000 yards and not be proven wrong until January.   It's about what is realistic to expect.   After guys are 4-5 years into the league they very rarely change from a nobody to a star out of nowhere.    It's pretty rare.

AJ Espenesa are you listening? 

 

Boogie are you listening? 

48 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

1. The premise of tweet the thread is "according to PFF".    So why are you taking it up with me instead of the OP?

 

2. Since the premise of the thread is "according to PFF".........McGovern was terrible per pff.    Not bad as a pass blocker but totally unplayable bad in the run game.......and ya' know.........there isn't such a thing as a 3rd down guard now is there?

 

3. Yep Harty and Sherfield = McKenzie and Kumerow.........in enough ways that it wouldn't even be a surprise if they weren't an upgrade.   I do think that since he's a name changer it would be a show of solidarity for Deonte to change his last name to "Sharty" since he's part of Sherfield, Shakir and Shorter WR's 3-6 unit. 

 

And it's not about being optimistic or pessimistic..........you can dream on James Cook rushing for 2,000 yards and not be proven wrong until January.   It's about what is realistic to expect.   After guys are 4-5 years into the league they very rarely change from a nobody to a star out of nowhere.    It's pretty rare.

Great post. Very good read. 

[Airseven]

6 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

We’ve talked about this many times but man it still amazes me how we only lost 3 games with arguably the most important unit on the team being a total crap fest.

 

They were saved by a soft schedule.

 

5 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

According to PFF they addressed their interior OL problem with 2 OL that were bad in 2022 and two rookies.

 

I get that fans want to imagine that guys like McGovern, Edwards, Harty and Sherfield will all play SO MUCH better than they were last year because Beane's crystal ball has foretold it...........but they are just shots in the dark not an indication that they've surely made strides in those areas of weakness.

 

 

 

All true. They've addressed depth, not talent.

 

By this point, Beane should have earmarked a first round pick and big money free agent for the OL. Instead it's deck chairs. 

Edited June 28, 2023 by Airseven

[Nextmanup]

NO, they didn't go far enough.  these are more band aid fixes from Beane.  For some reason, they don't value the OL but are in love with the DL.

 

I hope they find a way to do a LOT better than I expect.

 

 

[Freddie's Dead]

No.

[BarleyNY]

4 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea the salary cap exists…. And they are up against it without a ring because of failed moves by Beane and heavy defensive investments…. I’m questioning their strategy and their allocation of the cap dollars that they have had available. 

 

When fans cry about the team not having cap space they tend to forget that it’s only because it already got spent on something. It’s a choice made, not a random tragedy that’s befallen the team. 

[bmur66]

It depends on whether your goal is to be a perineal contender hoping to catch lightning at some point or go all in and sacrifice the future for your best chance to win the Superbowl now.

Edited June 29, 2023 by bmur66

[BarleyNY]

3 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

I keep asking myself we did the guy drop so far?  He feel for a reason. Many were saying he's a good run blocker and a poor pass blocker. Hopefully, he can contribute this season. Hard to get overly excited about a rookie playing in a Bills win now mentality. 

 

Reminds me of the Cody Ford situation. We will see how he play. 

Torrence did get mocked in the late first round by some. But I also saw him graded as a late day 2 and even round 4. Concerns include him being power scheme specific and lacking lateral agility - especially in pass pro. Basically that he’s a huge, strong, mauler, but he isn’t particularly fleet of foot. I’m glad that the OL was addressed in the draft, but we will have to wait and see how he pans out. 

[hondo in seattle]

3 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

That's the point. Beane missed the window of opportunity. The oline should have been solidified way back then. 

 

Now he's in scramble mode and left scrapping at the leftovers due to his own doing. 

 

The bad: Beane's errors have cost the Bills likely super bowls.

 

 

 

It's absolutely true that Beane has not - yet - built a Super Bowl quality roster.

 

But it's hard to talk about errors.  He tried to fix everything all at once - within the mighty restraints of the salary cap.  And he's been largely successful.  This is the best squad we've had since the early 90s. 

 

But, yeah, Beane tried to fix the OL mostly on the cheap with journeymen and it hasn't worked out.  You would think that getting a capable bodyguard for your generational QB would have been a bigger priority.  

 

I wonder, though, if he had spent more on the OL, who wouldn't we have right now?  Diggs?  Miller?  Someone else? 

 

The bottom line is this.  Our roster isn't the best in the NFL.  But, each year, it's one of the best.  With a little luck, we'll get a trophy before McD and Beane are done.