Andy1 Posted August 6, 2023 Posted August 6, 2023 26 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: Illegal or not, it happens, Andy. To be candid, I’m really struggling to understand how you can go from “Trump’s comments = threat” to “Gee, I don’t know why certain things are leaked”. You know why those photos were leaked, and I know why those photos were leaked. We can debate whether it was some low level flunky trying to look important or Merrick Garland himself. We can debate whether it was some malicious and malevolent force trying to divide folks like you and me, or some well-intentioned patriot who truly felt Trump is a threat to all mankind and figured “Screw my ethics”. What is beyond debate is that the photos were leaked to influence opinion. Back to the point. The government holds all the cards here. No budgetary constraints. No limitations on personnel working the case. No personal financial skin in the game whether Smith wins or loses. A one-sided process to return an indictment. The game is played on their home court. They gave unlimited opportunity to leak information and the protection of anonymous sourcing to shape the narrative as they see fit. The defendant, on the other hand, has none of that. If the case Smith is bringing is so strong—-and it likely is—-what’s the harm in sharing/releasing data so long as no significant national secrets are in play (we can even use the Biden Benchmark—anything sensitive enough that it can’t be stored next to a corvette 30 years or older is off limits) and no one is in harms way? I’ve gotten to the point where I realize there’s far too much secrecy in our system, too many people protecting others, too much hidden under the cover of National Security. I remain uncertain about the protective order, but the fantasy that what Trump tweeted is beyond the political pale simply doesn’t hold water with me. That and worse occur daily in Washington. I agree, the public should hear whatever evidence Smith has. We will when these cases go to trial. The government does hold all the cards. That’s why legal experts all say you really don’t want to face federal charges. Trump didn’t care about the consequences, so now he faces the charges. The feds still need to convince a jury of their case. The amount of classified documents our country has is ridiculous. My local library does a better job tracking and retrieving late books than our government does with their classified docs. This is a good opportunity for bipartisan legislation to deal with this issue.
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted August 6, 2023 Posted August 6, 2023 18 minutes ago, Andy1 said: I agree, the public should hear whatever evidence Smith has. We will when these cases go to trial. The government does hold all the cards. That’s why legal experts all say you really don’t want to face federal charges. Trump didn’t care about the consequences, so now he faces the charges. The feds still need to convince a jury of their case. The amount of classified documents our country has is ridiculous. My local library does a better job tracking and retrieving late books than our government does with their classified docs. This is a good opportunity for bipartisan legislation to deal with this issue. But we won’t hear everything, that not the nature of a trial. It’s a carefully scripted presentation by skilled orators who consider everything from jury makeup to how they sit/stand dress, to when they object, tone of voice and human psychology. In fact, it seems pretty clear you’ve already made your mind up, and I’d be surprised if that’s not due in large part to that which has been said and leaked to the media. That brings me back to the hypothetical….is a gag order fair? I’ll move on, doesn’t matter much one way or the other. Have a good night. 1
John from Riverside Posted August 6, 2023 Posted August 6, 2023 52 minutes ago, Andy1 said: I agree, the public should hear whatever evidence Smith has. We will when these cases go to trial. The government does hold all the cards. That’s why legal experts all say you really don’t want to face federal charges. Trump didn’t care about the consequences, so now he faces the charges. The feds still need to convince a jury of their case. The amount of classified documents our country has is ridiculous. My local library does a better job tracking and retrieving late books than our government does with their classified docs. This is a good opportunity for bipartisan legislation to deal with this issue. Absolutely it really bothers me just how poorly they are being handled whenever I went through years of being right on point with every document But see, that’s the thing a low level airman they would throw the book at if you have power, it seems you have more leeway I don’t like that very much
BillsFanNC Posted August 6, 2023 Author Posted August 6, 2023 12 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: Illegal or not, it happens, Andy. To be candid, I’m really struggling to understand how you can go from “Trump’s comments = threat” to “Gee, I don’t know why certain things are leaked”. You know why those photos were leaked, and I know why those photos were leaked. We can debate whether it was some low level flunky trying to look important or Merrick Garland himself. We can debate whether it was some malicious and malevolent force trying to divide folks like you and me, or some well-intentioned patriot who truly felt Trump is a threat to all mankind and figured “Screw my ethics”. What is beyond debate is that the photos were leaked to influence opinion. Back to the point. The government holds all the cards here. No budgetary constraints. No limitations on personnel working the case. No personal financial skin in the game whether Smith wins or loses. A one-sided process to return an indictment. The game is played on their home court. They gave unlimited opportunity to leak information and the protection of anonymous sourcing to shape the narrative as they see fit. The defendant, on the other hand, has none of that. If the case Smith is bringing is so strong—-and it likely is—-what’s the harm in sharing/releasing data so long as no significant national secrets are in play (we can even use the Biden Benchmark—anything sensitive enough that it can’t be stored next to a corvette 30 years or older is off limits) and no one is in harms way? I’ve gotten to the point where I realize there’s far too much secrecy in our system, too many people protecting others, too much hidden under the cover of National Security. I remain uncertain about the protective order, but the fantasy that what Trump tweeted is beyond the political pale simply doesn’t hold water with me. That and worse occur daily in Washington. Robert Hur. Do you know who this individual is @Andy1? I'll give you a moment to Google... That's right he is the special counsel assigned to Biden classified docs case. Jack Smith, as you know, is currently given rock star status. Curiously in this instance it's as it should be, a locked up tight investigation, no leaks at all. We even have a media that is largely uninterested in reporting on the investigation in any way. Why do you suppose that is andy?
BillStime Posted August 6, 2023 Posted August 6, 2023 1 minute ago, BillsFanNC said: Anyway, back to the thread... So much winning, Karen. No doubt you’re proud of this POS. 2
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted August 8, 2023 Posted August 8, 2023 @Andy1 https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2023/08/07/trump-gag-order-is-likely-given-his-online-attacks-pence-jack-smith-legal-experts-say.html This article takes a deeper dive into the question we discussed the other day. True, it seems a bit hyperbolic on the importance of words in capital letters, neglects to mention that Trump has actually been the victim of political persecution according to many people in the know, but overall...why should his speech be limited beyond highly sensitive or protected information, when the govt has no such restraint? Gag orders are usually only imposed when the fairness of a trial is seen to be at risk, legal experts said. The judge will have to weigh First Amendment concerns against the need to prevent attempts to tamper with witnesses or taint the jury pool. later... In a filing Monday evening, Trump's attorneys argued that the Department of Justice's proposed protective order was too broad. The defense attorneys proposed a narrower order that they said would shield "only genuinely sensitive materials from public view." and... In a social media post earlier Monday, Trump claimed that a protective order in the case "would impinge upon my right to FREE SPEECH." In the same post, Trump said that Smith and the DOJ should be bound by such an order, claiming they are "leaking" information. Again, I understand the malice and disgust directed at Trump, but think the defense raises a valid point about being muzzled unreasonably. 2
Joe Ferguson forever Posted August 8, 2023 Posted August 8, 2023 strange woman but had a unique and close perspective https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2023/08/08/trump-indictments-speech-grisham-reaction-bts-cnc-vpx.cnnhttps://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2023/08/08/trump-indictments-speech-grisham-reaction-bts-cnc-vpx.cnn
BillsFanNC Posted August 8, 2023 Author Posted August 8, 2023 (edited) The weaponized government can hold press conferences and freely leak to a complicit media laying out their "case" unperturbed, clearly poisoning any potential commie DC jurors to the extent that they can swallow any more poison, but Trump requires a gag order.... Got it. How to tell us that you support the police state, comrade. Edited August 8, 2023 by BillsFanNC 1
Joe Ferguson forever Posted August 8, 2023 Posted August 8, 2023 (edited) 42 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said: The weaponized government can hold press conferences and freely lealk to a complicit media laying out their "case" unperturbed, clearly poisoning any potential commie DC jurors to the extent that they can swallow any more poison, but Trump requires a gag order.... Got it. How to tell us that you support the police state, comrade. yes, because he's never threatened judges or witnesses. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/08/07/trump-witness-tampering-analysis/ Edited August 8, 2023 by redtail hawk
Andy1 Posted August 8, 2023 Posted August 8, 2023 It looks like he is going to challenge the authority of the court and ignore whatever order is decided upon. He probably figures, maybe correctly, that he will not be imprisoned for talking, so why bother complying with the court order. And the show goes on…. 1
TSOL Posted August 9, 2023 Posted August 9, 2023 1 hour ago, Andy1 said: It looks like he is going to challenge the authority of the court and ignore whatever order is decided upon. He probably figures, maybe correctly, that he will not be imprisoned for talking, so why bother complying with the court order. And the show goes on…. Don't hate the player, hate the game.
John from Riverside Posted August 9, 2023 Posted August 9, 2023 On 8/6/2023 at 10:59 AM, BillsFanNC said: I can easily see why Dan Bongino is your favorite guy. You must be the life of the parties 1 hour ago, BillsFanNC said: 52 court cases lost Countless audits Biden won deal with it 1
John from Riverside Posted August 9, 2023 Posted August 9, 2023 15 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said: Two fat people calling each other fat 1
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