Where "Follow The Science (TM)" has LEFT us..

[BillsFanNC]

6 hours ago, B-Man said:

 

 

One day we will look back on this and wonder why we listened to the radical left.

 

SO MUCH SCIENCE: Anthropologist Told She Can't Gender Remains Because We Don't Know How They Identified

Amy Curtis

 

Remember science? Remember when the pursuit of objective truth meant rationally questioning, rigorously testing hypotheses, and reporting the results without political bias?

 

Good times.

 

But the times, as they say, are a-changin'. Science has now become a cultish quasi-religion for the Left, and woe to those of you who don't bow down to its ever-evolving dogmas.

 

Elizabeth Weiss, Professor Emeritus of Anthropology, had a conversation with Michael Shermer of Skeptic, and guess what -- anthropologists can't 'assume' the gender of the remains they find because we don't know if that person 'identified' as male or female.

 

Science is dead. Wokeism killed it.

 

 

https://twitchy.com/amy-curtis/2024/08/18/anthropologist-told-she-cannot-determine-sex-of-skeletons-because-we-dont-know-how-they-identified-n2399773

 

 

All by design.

 

Cultural Marxism. 

 

Wake. Up.

[Scraps]

Just now, Orlando Buffalo said:

Are you still arguing that getting the COVID shot keeps you safe years later? I don't think you have kept up with the science

From the studies I've looked at, vaccination results in memory B and T cells that are long lasting and do provide some level of protection against severe disease years later.  Hence someone who had not been infected would have been wise to get the vaccine prior to their first infection.

 

Recovery from infection should also result in memory B and T cells and provide protection against severe disease later.  People who had been infected with SARS COV-1 had memory cells 18 years later.  There is no reason to believe our immune systems react differently to SARS COV2.

Edited August 19 by Scraps

[Orlando Buffalo]

10 hours ago, Scraps said:

From the studies I've looked at, vaccination results in memory B and T cells that are long lasting and do provide some level of protection against severe disease years later.  Hence someone who had not been infected would have been wise to get the vaccine prior to their first infection.

 

Recovery from infection should also result in memory B and T cells and provide protection against severe disease later.  People who had been infected with SARS COV-1 had memory cells 18 years later.  There is no reason to believe our immune systems react differently to SARS COV2.

There is no study that shows that for MRNA vaccines, but you keep deluding yourself 

[Scraps]

1 hour ago, Orlando Buffalo said:

There is no study that shows that for MRNA vaccines, but you keep deluding yourself 

So this doesn't exist?

 

"In addition to the production of antibodies, an effective immune response requires the generation of long-lived memory B and T cells. mRNA vaccines induce robust germinal center responses in humans (11), resulting in memory B cells that are specific for both the full-length SARS-CoV-2 Spike protein and the Spike receptor binding domain (RBD) (12–14). mRNA vaccination has also been shown to generate Spike-specific memory CD4+ and CD8+ T cell responses (15–18). Although antibodies are often correlates of vaccine efficacy, memory B cells and memory T cells are important components of the recall response to viral antigens and are a likely mechanism of protection, especially in the setting of infections in previously vaccinated individuals where antibodies alone do not provide sterilizing immunity (19). In such cases, memory B and T cells can be rapidly re-activated, resulting in enhanced control of initial viral replication and limiting viral dissemination in the host (20, 21). "

 

mRNA Vaccination Induces Durable Immune Memory to SARS-CoV-2 with Continued Evolution to Variants of Concern

[Orlando Buffalo]

11 minutes ago, Scraps said:

So this doesn't exist?

 

"In addition to the production of antibodies, an effective immune response requires the generation of long-lived memory B and T cells. mRNA vaccines induce robust germinal center responses in humans (11), resulting in memory B cells that are specific for both the full-length SARS-CoV-2 Spike protein and the Spike receptor binding domain (RBD) (12–14). mRNA vaccination has also been shown to generate Spike-specific memory CD4+ and CD8+ T cell responses (15–18). Although antibodies are often correlates of vaccine efficacy, memory B cells and memory T cells are important components of the recall response to viral antigens and are a likely mechanism of protection, especially in the setting of infections in previously vaccinated individuals where antibodies alone do not provide sterilizing immunity (19). In such cases, memory B and T cells can be rapidly re-activated, resulting in enhanced control of initial viral replication and limiting viral dissemination in the host (20, 21). "

 

mRNA Vaccination Induces Durable Immune Memory to SARS-CoV-2 with Continued Evolution to Variants of Concern

6 months is not long term, not sure if you were missed or somehow thing 6 months is a true long term study.

 

Cohort Design

We collected 342 longitudinal samples from 61 individuals receiving either the Pfizer BNT162b2 or Moderna mRNA-1273 SARS-CoV-2 vaccines at 6 timepoints (figure 1A), ranging from pre-vaccination baseline to 6 months post-vaccination.

[Scraps]

16 minutes ago, Orlando Buffalo said:

6 months is not long term, not sure if you were missed or somehow thing 6 months is a true long term study.

 

Cohort Design

We collected 342 longitudinal samples from 61 individuals receiving either the Pfizer BNT162b2 or Moderna mRNA-1273 SARS-CoV-2 vaccines at 6 timepoints (figure 1A), ranging from pre-vaccination baseline to 6 months post-vaccination.

What is a truly long term study Dr. Doofus?

[Orlando Buffalo]

4 hours ago, Scraps said:

What is a truly long term study Dr. Doofus?

Minimum of 5 years and preferably 10 years, then 20 years

[Scraps]

Just now, Orlando Buffalo said:

Minimum of 5 years and preferably 10 years, then 20 years

So it it impossible to produce such data since Covid is less than 5 years old.

 

What is the rational for believing that the mRNA vaccines won't produce memory b and t cells?  Why is it incorrect to believe that the vaccines will produce memory cells that will be detected 5-20 years later when there are studies showing memory cells do exist in vaccinated individuals?  Do you think unvaccinated people who recover from infection will have memory cells 5-20 years later like people who recovered from SARS Cov-1 did?

[Joe Ferguson forever]

9 minutes ago, Scraps said:

So it it impossible to produce such data since Covid is less than 5 years old.

 

What is the rational for believing that the mRNA vaccines won't produce memory b and t cells?  Why is it incorrect to believe that the vaccines will produce memory cells that will be detected 5-20 years later when there are studies showing memory cells do exist in vaccinated individuals?  Do you think unvaccinated people who recover from infection will have memory cells 5-20 years later like people who recovered from SARS Cov-1 did?

they hate science especially when the findings don't match their ideology.

[Orlando Buffalo]

9 minutes ago, Scraps said:

So it it impossible to produce such data since Covid is less than 5 years old.

 

What is the rational for believing that the mRNA vaccines won't produce memory b and t cells?  Why is it incorrect to believe that the vaccines will produce memory cells that will be detected 5-20 years later when there are studies showing memory cells do exist in vaccinated individuals?  Do you think unvaccinated people who recover from infection will have memory cells 5-20 years later like people who recovered from SARS Cov-1 did?

Wow you catch on quick that any medicine less than 5 years old can't have a long term study. To answer the rest of the question MRNA works differently than old school vaccines, old school vaccines show your body what to fight and you body learns to fight it, MRNA only produces the desired response, in the long term we don't know if it helps your body recognize the virus which is a key component of fighting illnesses. Any assumptions about what happens in 5 years is without evidence, just like all the headlines 3  years ago that said the vaccine was 100% effective, more time.is needed.

[Scraps]

32 minutes ago, Orlando Buffalo said:

Wow you catch on quick that any medicine less than 5 years old can't have a long term study. To answer the rest of the question MRNA works differently than old school vaccines, old school vaccines show your body what to fight and you body learns to fight it, MRNA only produces the desired response, in the long term we don't know if it helps your body recognize the virus which is a key component of fighting illnesses. Any assumptions about what happens in 5 years is without evidence, just like all the headlines 3  years ago that said the vaccine was 100% effective, more time.is needed.

You don't seem to have any clue on how mRNA vaccines work.  They do not simply produce a desired response.  They get your cells to generate a portion of the virus, in this case the spike protein.  Your immune system then recognizes that protein as something that doesn't belong in the human body and elicits an immune response.  In a sense, they are similar to vaccines for Hepatitis B, pertussis and human papillomavirus.  Those vaccines use a subunit (just a portion of the virus or proteins of the virus) and those vaccines produce memory B and T cells.  Why assume that mRNA vaccines won't do the same?

Edited August 19 by Scraps

[Orlando Buffalo]

1 hour ago, Scraps said:

You don't seem to have any clue on how mRNA vaccines work.  They do not simply produce a desired response.  They get your cells to generate a portion of the virus, in this case the spike protein.  Your immune system then recognizes that protein as something that doesn't belong in the human body and elicits an immune response.  In a sense, they are similar to vaccines for Hepatitis B, pertussis and human papillomavirus.  Those vaccines use a subunit (just a portion of the virus or proteins of the virus) and those vaccines produce memory B and T cells.  Why assume that mRNA vaccines won't do the same?

You are speaking as if we have actual long term studies. I don't know what minor benefits the MRNA might provide, most likely it will be similar to the flu shot, get it yearly and it will improve your resistance, my point is we don't know and you pretending we do know let's me know you are truly gullible if you think one 6 month study with less than 400 people is enough to prove long-term effects 

2 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

they hate science especially when the findings don't match their ideology.

Are you speaking of yourself? I have not had to walk back anything from COVID since I always said let people choose there own path. Your side is the one who pushed "100% protection" which sounded too good to be true, then and now we know was not science but politics.

[Joe Ferguson forever]

30 minutes ago, Orlando Buffalo said:

You are speaking as if we have actual long term studies. I don't know what minor benefits the MRNA might provide, most likely it will be similar to the flu shot, get it yearly and it will improve your resistance, my point is we don't know and you pretending we do know let's me know you are truly gullible if you think one 6 month study with less than 400 people is enough to prove long-term effects 

Are you speaking of yourself? I have not had to walk back anything from COVID since I always said let people choose there own path. Your side is the one who pushed "100% protection" which sounded too good to be true, then and now we know was not science but politics.

You've heard of a work in progress?  That's what covid was for science.  Many lives were saved through science.  Effective vaccines, drugs, critical care developments collectively saved millions.  I'm very happy they practiced an abundance of caution.  Always a wise policy.

[Joe Ferguson forever]

2 hours ago, Scraps said:

You don't seem to have any clue on how mRNA vaccines work.  They do not simply produce a desired response.  They get your cells to generate a portion of the virus, in this case the spike protein.  Your immune system then recognizes that protein as something that doesn't belong in the human body and elicits an immune response.  In a sense, they are similar to vaccines for Hepatitis B, pertussis and human papillomavirus.  Those vaccines use a subunit (just a portion of the virus or proteins of the virus) and those vaccines produce memory B and T cells.  Why assume that mRNA vaccines won't do the same?

OK.  You have significant and extensive knowledge on vaccines.  What gives?  As an aside, do you know how HPV was discovered to be an STD?  Someones noticed that nuns almost never got cervical cancer.  Science

[Orlando Buffalo]

7 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

You've heard of a work in progress?  That's what covid was for science.  Many lives were saved through science.  Effective vaccines, drugs, critical care developments collectively saved millions.  I'm very happy they practiced an abundance of caution.  Always a wise policy.

You should speak with scraps because he told me it is already settled science. I appreciate you now admitting it is a work in progress 3 years after I was assured it was 100% settled.

[Scraps]

43 minutes ago, Orlando Buffalo said:

You are speaking as if we have actual long term studies. I don't know what minor benefits the MRNA might provide, most likely it will be similar to the flu shot, get it yearly and it will improve your resistance, my point is we don't know and you pretending we do know let's me know you are truly gullible if you think one 6 month study with less than 400 people is enough to prove long-term effects 

When you started on this, you implied that Covid vaccines do not produce long term immunity and I was ignorant of current data.  In fact, you have no data.

 

As a result of the pandemic, I made an effort to learn about the immune system.  Recovery from infection of diseases, including SARS Cov-1, result in memory cells in the bone marrow.  Traditional vaccines have produced memory cells in the bone marrow.  Subunit vaccines for Hepatitis-b and pertussis have resulted in memory cells in the bone marrow.  Memory cells have been found in the bone marrow following mRNA vaccination.  There is a long shot possibility that the mRNA vaccines may not result in those memory cells lasting very long in the bone marrow but you certainly haven't come up with any reasonable explanation of why that would occur.

 

You also don't know what flu vaccines do or why they are recommended.

[Orlando Buffalo]

7 minutes ago, Scraps said:

When you started on this, you implied that Covid vaccines do not produce long term immunity and I was ignorant of current data.  In fact, you have no data.

 

As a result of the pandemic, I made an effort to learn about the immune system.  Recovery from infection of diseases, including SARS Cov-1, result in memory cells in the bone marrow.  Traditional vaccines have produced memory cells in the bone marrow.  Subunit vaccines for Hepatitis-b and pertussis have resulted in memory cells in the bone marrow.  Memory cells have been found in the bone marrow following mRNA vaccination.  There is a long shot possibility that the mRNA vaccines may not result in those memory cells lasting very long in the bone marrow but you certainly haven't come up with any reasonable explanation of why that would occur.

 

You also don't know what flu vaccines do or why they are recommended.

You love to lie about what I say, I said you have no long term studies and you presented a 6 month study with 400 people and presented it as settled science of long term "settle science". But as you said I don't have any long term studies because we don't have enough time for an actual long term study to exist. 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

12 minutes ago, Orlando Buffalo said:

You should speak with scraps because he told me it is already settled science. I appreciate you now admitting it is a work in progress 3 years after I was assured it was 100% settled.

I don't know who would ever assure you that anything in science is settled.  Know one was saying that about covid.

[Scraps]

43 minutes ago, Orlando Buffalo said:

You love to lie about what I say, I said you have no long term studies and you presented a 6 month study with 400 people and presented it as settled science of long term "settle science". But as you said I don't have any long term studies because we don't have enough time for an actual long term study to exist. 

I don't believe I lied at all.  What you said was.

23 hours ago, Orlando Buffalo said:

Are you still arguing that getting the COVID shot keeps you safe years later? I don't think you have kept up with the science

It is a fair interpretation to say that when you started on this, you implied that Covid vaccines do not produce long term immunity and I was ignorant of current data.  In fact, you have no data.

 

I don't believe I presented anything as "settled science".  It is you who is the liar.

Edited August 20 by Scraps

[Orlando Buffalo]

24 minutes ago, Scraps said:

I don't believe I lied at all.  What you said was.

It is a fair interpretation to say that when you started on this, you implied that Covid vaccines do not produce long term immunity and I was ignorant of current data.  In fact, you have no data.

 

I don't believe I presented anything as "settled science".  It is you who is the liar.

The vaccine is supposed to be effective for 6 months according to Moderna and Pfizer, your study was limited to the most effective time frame of the shot and think I dont understand how studies work.