To all the Fire McDermott Posters, a follow up question..

[HardyBoy]

3 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

 

I agree that winning a SB is very difficult and that some luck is always involved. But that’s exactly why having a HC who is up to the task in the big moments is so important. He can’t choke them away. It’s too difficult and too much has to go your way to even have a chance. Coaches don’t get too many chances with that before they lose the confidence of their players. 

 

You have to be kidding me with the Marty S and Phillip Rivers comment. Rivers’ and Bernie Kosar’s careers were both wasted under Marty S. In San Diego his replacement, Norv Turner, was cut for the same mold and finished wasting Rivers’ useful years. I certainly believe we can do better than Turner. There’s no guarantee of hitting on any HC hire, but that doesn’t mean you keep one that you have to hope figures out how to win a big game. 

 

I think you're giving too much credit and blame to coaches though. Also, 13 seconds was Levi Wallace's fault, he should have been inside leverage on Kelce, I'm convinced they were baiting then into running that adjustment and Wallace brain farted at the worst possible moment.  

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

6 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Gunner, I respect your opinion and knowledge. You always respond professionally and with solid evidence backing up your claims. 

 

I am often reactionary to a fault. I can't get 13 seconds out of my head nor the playoff performances of the recent years. Perhaps, I'm too short sighted to see a positive long term prognosis. 

 

Takes me back a few years ago when Allen wasn't playing well early in the season. I was incorrectly pounding the table saying Allen was regressing.

 

Boy, was I wrong and happily wrong at that. I would like nothing more than McD to bring a SB to Buffalo. I'd love to be wrong again!

 

Go Bills!!!

 

So, by your own admission, you're a wet diaper?

 

Thanks for the self-awareness

 

5 hours ago, BUFFALOBART said:

We *DO* have a history, of the 'next guy being worse'.

A new coach brings a new system, and a likely multiple year rebuild.

After 13-3, no thanks.

 

 

*gregggggggggg williams has entered the chat*

 

[Kirby Jackson]

15 hours ago, ChicagoRic said:

Who is your replacement?  Who will absolutely, positively, 100%, be that "better" choice you are clamoring for?

 

I keep on hearing "McDermott is the problem."

 

Who is the solution? Someone actually available to be hired. 

I thought that they should have replaced him with Sean Payton this offseason. McDermott is okay. The Doug Collins comparisons are right IMO.
 

The Bills would be good with ANYBODY coaching them. He is not elevating them. He isn’t necessarily hindering them either. He’s a caretaker. In order to get to the next level, I would have hired Payton.

 

You could do worse than McDermott. You can do better also.

[HardyBoy]

2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I thought that they should have replaced him with Sean Payton this offseason. McDermott is okay. The Doug Collins comparisons are right IMO.
 

The Bills would be good with ANYBODY coaching them. He is not elevating them. He isn’t necessarily hindering them either. He’s a caretaker. In order to get to the next level, I would have hired Payton.

 

You could do worse than McDermott. You can do better also.

 

Isn't Sean Payton overrated though? Like I remember reading something where he's had way more bad seasons than you'd expect from an elite coach, even if accounting that they were in cap hell for a bit. 

[folz]

7 minutes ago, Billsflyer12 said:

There are lots of coaches in many leagues who were fired after good seasons and great track records.

 

- Milwaukee Bucks just fired their coach who won them a Championship after getting them the #1 seed in this year playoffs but losing 1st rd.

- Bayern Munich fired their coach mid season while in 1st place while in a 11 years straight of league Championships

- Marty Schottenheimer (who many compare McD with) was fired after a 14-4 record but poor playoff performance

- HOF coach Tony Dungy was fired from Bucks after making playoffs

- Bruce Boudreau was fired right after winning the Presidents Trophy in NHL

 

I appreciate you responding with actual examples. 👍 

 

But, hard to compare other sports leagues. So, I'll stick to the NFL.

 

So, ok, you gave me two NFL examples. Two coaches still doesn't make it standard to fire a winning coach, but let me counter further.

 

Marty Shottenheimer was in his 21st year as a HC at 64 years old with no SB appearances (as opposed to MCD's 6 years at 49 years old). In 5 years in SD (where he was fired from), Marty made the playoffs 2 years and missed the playoffs 3 years (McD's made 5 of 6). Shottenheimer's career playoff record at that point was 5 and 13 (McD is 4-5). Marty also had a 4-12 and an 8-8 season during that stint. And his last two years in SD: missed the playoffs, lost in Wild Card round to the Jets. Marty was 0-2 in the playoffs in 5 years with SD. Sean has 4 playoff wins.

 

Dungy is probably a better comp. Fired after his sixth season in TB. He made playoffs 4 of 6 years. But his playoff record was only 2-4. Win percentage including playoffs in their first 6 years is Dungy (.549) and McD (.622). And though he had some good records and playoff appearances, Dungy's last three seasons in Tampa were 11-5, 10-6, 9-7 with a 21-3 Wild Card loss to Philly (2000) followed by a 31-9 Wild Card loss to Philly (2001)---no playoff wins in last two seasons. I could see how an owner might see that as being on the decline. McD's last three years were 13-3, 11-6, 13-3 with two playoff wins and then a 42-36 Divisional round loss to KC and a 27-10 loss in the Divisional round to Cincy. Still kind of a different picture between the two. 

 

So, even granting these two examples, as I said, it is still few and far between (NFL coaches who are winning getting fired); but even looking at these two examples, both have a much better case for being fired than McDermott does at this point.

[ngbills]

Not many coaches would not make the playoffs with Allen and this roster. Winning in the playoffs has been the issue. Look what Tomlin has done in Pitt with way less talent. Or SF with no QB. 
 

I am not for firing him yet…but at some point maybe. 

Edited June 18, 2023 by ngbills

[GreggTX]

Great question OP. Philly fired Reid because he couldn't win a SB. Last February Eagles fans watched as their former 'can't win the big one' coach outcoached them to win the big one. McDermott isn't the problem. No one is perfect yet everyone working in the Bills organisation has a role to play and must perform at a high level if we are to win a Lombardi Trophy. There are 31 other teams after the same prize. I think that if Josh can drop his fumbles and picks by 75%, that would do more than firing a great HC. Maybe guys like Gabe, Kaiir, Brown, Oliver and McGovern will have breakout years. That might do the trick. Maybe the injury bug will go easier on us than it did last year. Maybe our scouts helped Beane put together a great draft and this year's rookie class will be great. I just don't see McDermott as the problem.

 

[ngbills]

Here is the problem with waiting to fire a coach. you wait until they have a bad year and then fire them, bring in a new guy, who often blows the team up. So you never see what a different coach could have done with the same roster. That would be the argument for bringing someone in while you are winning. You just want to get over the bump not hit restart. 

[folz]

39 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

 

Isn't Sean Payton overrated though? Like I remember reading something where he's had way more bad seasons than you'd expect from an elite coach, even if accounting that they were in cap hell for a bit. 

 

He had 14 seasons in New Orleans with one of the greatest QBs ever (Drew Brees). He did win a Super Bowl of course, but he also missed the playoffs 5 times (with Brees as his QB) and his playoff record was 9-8 with Drew.

 

And you want a comparison to McDermott? How about New Orleans losing in the divisional round of the 2017-18 playoffs on the last play of the game (the Minnesota Miracle) and then losing again the following year to the Rams in OT. New Orleans led on the scoreboard the entire game, until the Rams tied it up with a field goal with 15 seconds left in the game. The Rams went on to win the game in OT. [And both of those seasons, NO was probably most people's favorite to at least represent the NFC in the SB, if not win it.] Not sure why those things get forgiven for other coaches (Payton, Reid, etc.) but not McD.

 

Doesn't mean Sean Payton is overrated or not a great coach, but it does point out that even a very good coach with an elite QB doesn't just waltz into the Super Bowl every year. Only one Super Bowl appearance in 14 years with an all-time, HOF QB.

Edited June 18, 2023 by folz

[boater]

A fire McDermott type is probably the type who yells at Umpires at a little league game.

[ControllerOfPlanetX]

Gruden…it worked for Tampa…..

[GoBills808]

33 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

Great question OP. Philly fired Reid because he couldn't win a SB. Last February Eagles fans watched as their former 'can't win the big one' coach outcoached them to win the big one. McDermott isn't the problem. No one is perfect yet everyone working in the Bills organisation has a role to play and must perform at a high level if we are to win a Lombardi Trophy. There are 31 other teams after the same prize. I think that if Josh can drop his fumbles and picks by 75%, that would do more than firing a great HC. Maybe guys like Gabe, Kaiir, Brown, Oliver and McGovern will have breakout years. That might do the trick. Maybe the injury bug will go easier on us than it did last year. Maybe our scouts helped Beane put together a great draft and this year's rookie class will be great. I just don't see McDermott as the problem.

 

Eagles fans have watched their team win a Super Bowl and then go right back with another HC, all within the last five years...I'd bet they're doing just fine 

[uticaclub]

2 hours ago, BUFFALOBART said:

Football is a 'game of inches'. Things did NOT bounce our way, last season. So it goes, in the NFL..

It sure is, all I am saying is give Rex, Josh Allen we would be in the same spot

[stinky finger]

15 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Of course it is
You now have a coach that has not missed the playoffs in what three years 13 and three season

You change coaches there’s every possibility that you’re looking at a top 10 pack

Things have happened to playing themselves out
 

If we regress, then you know they’re going to seriously look at it

 

If they’re going 13 and three, he’s not gonna get fired

 

Are  you saying if they go 13-4 and don't win a playoff game he keeps his job? 

[Einstein]

He may have already been posted (I haven't read all 5 pages of the thread yet), but I am very high on Lou Anarumo.

 

He is great motivator (like McD), a tough bastard (like Belichick), and has shown (numerous times) that he can stymie the Chiefs offense in the playoffs. Including absolutely blanking Mahomes in the second half of last years AFCCG, in one of the best defensive efforts i've ever seen.

Hiring Anarumo:

 

1) Helps the Bills.

2) Hurts the Bengals.

3) Hurts the Chiefs.

 

It's a win/win/win.

 

It's not as sexy of a pick as hiring an offensive mind, but we let our offensive mind go to the Giants, so... Anarumom would be my pick.

 

PS, as much as I am down about McD's chances to win a championship, I would shake his hand and thank him for all he has done for the franchise. He is a large part of the reason that we are no longer a joke around the NFL. He established a culture in Buffalo and brought credibility back to this franchise. He deserves serious praise for what he has accomplished. When we win a ring with another coach, I believe McD should get a ring as well, because without him setting the groundwork and building the foundation, the eventual ring would never have happened.

[Nuncha]

15 hours ago, Buffalo619 said:

Guy is a drama king. The culture has turned toxic. Superbowl this year or move on. We can find better. 

Its "toxic" because of Diggs who had very similar issues in Minnesota before coming here.  Hummm.  Yea sure fire the coach.

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

So, by your own admission, you're a wet diaper?

 

Thanks for the self-awareness

 

*gregggggggggg williams has entered the chat*

 

Humility goes a long way. 

[Nextmanup]

16 hours ago, Chaos said:

I didn't know who Sean McVay was (other than John McVay's grandson), Nick Sirianis or Zac Taylor were before they became head coaches.  All have had more playoff success than McDermott.   I doubt you knew who any of those guys were.   I doubt you were banging the drum to hire Sean McDermott.  So can we all agree to not pretend we know the universe of potential head coaches, and are also certain none could be better than McDermott?

outstanding post

The OP sounds like the kind of guy who stays in a bad marriage for YEARS because he doesn't have proof he'll find another woman or that she'll be any better.

Can't live that way, man.

 

 

[ChicagoRic]

32 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

outstanding post

The OP sounds like the kind of guy who stays in a bad marriage for YEARS because he doesn't have proof he'll find another woman or that she'll be any better.

Can't live that way, man.

 

 

Excuse me, what?  The purpose of my post was pretty simple.  I wanted a little more than the knee jerk "Fire McDermott" posts that have been making the rounds, so I asked "Ok, then what?"  In the future, please don't attack my character or make assumptions about my personal life, just stick to the topic.  Not cool.   

[SCBills]

5 hours ago, Augie said:

 

Disagree. So many people think we should get rid of the 14-4 coach from last season, they should have to provide a solution.  The constant complaining should be balanced with something productive. 

It’s disingenuous to ask this in the middle of June.   The list of candidates is not what is there after the season.  
 

You could ask what people wish we did (past tense) or discuss this in the future tense, but as of right now.. everyone (college and pro) is locked in. 
 

The question makes no sense to demand an answer to at this point of the season.