To all the Fire McDermott Posters, a follow up question..

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

23 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That Orange Bowl might remain his biggest win. 

 

I'd argue his biggest wins are the recent wins he has had against Ohio State. They weren't post-season or bowl games but to take that program from where it was when he arrived to where it is now was quite an achievement. Michigan had become a joke and after thought. 

 

I don't think Jim Harbough is the right coach for the Bills but I do think he can be a good coach for another NFL team. Given where the Bills are now, a top team, I wouldn't want to take the risk of bringing him in.

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, SCBills said:

Multiple year rebuild?..

 

Dolphins didn’t rebuild, with a far less talented and injury prone QB, under Mike McDaniel. 
 

If we underperform and/or come up short again in the Playoffs, I think the Pegula’s need to think long and hard about bringing in a new HC. 
 

AFC Championship Game is the minimum, imo, to potentially avoid this conversation.   And if we don’t win that game, it has to be a competitive game, not another Chiefs ‘20 or Bengals ‘22 fiasco. 
 

I hope it doesn’t get to that.. but if it does, what exactly are we holding on to him for?   We’ll have reached a point where we’ve seemingly plateaued as a franchise and risk him losing the locker room.  

 

The Dolphins are an interesting case.  They kept their DC (rare).  They kept their GM.

 

They made the playoffs.  But, they did it with the same record that *failed* to make the playoffs the previous two seasons under Flores.  It actually reminds me somewhat of the Bills first year under McDermott.

 

I don't think it's atypical to see a similar or better record the first year with a new HC.  The Dolphins saw a better record when they changed to Philbin from Sparano and Gase from Philbin.  The question is, what then? 

 

One could argue, given the offensive and defensive talent they lined up and the FA/trade acquisitions, they expected to take a step.

 

So we'll see, this season.  They just changed DCs to a guy in his 60s with 19 years of DC experience.

 

 

Edited June 18, 2023 by Beck Water

[Augie]

12 hours ago, SCBills said:

Ask me after the season. 
 

Im hopeful he is the guy, and this discussion goes by the wayside, but this question is nonsensical in the middle of June. 
 

If the team makes a jump in the postseason, I think most of us will want to stay the course. 
 

If we win the Super Bowl, his job is safe for years. 
 

If not, I’d think most will advocate for an offensive guy.  The OC in Detroit comes to mind as an option off the top of my head. 

 

Disagree. So many people think we should get rid of the 14-4 coach from last season, they should have to provide a solution.  The constant complaining should be balanced with something productive. 

[Beck Water]

23 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

A major rebuild wouldn't be necessary.  Competent drafting on the GM side would be.  On the coaching side, the simple avoidance of drastic errors, that quite frankly no coach that's ever coached a team to a Super Bowl win has ever made in the playoffs

 

Andy Reid says "hi".  No, seriously - Andy Reid had that reputation as the great regular season coach who couldn't get it done in the big games.  The years blur together, but after one of the Chiefs playoff losses, Tony Dungy banged the table on prime time TV and opined "The Chiefs may win a Superbowl, but they won't win it with Andy Reid as their HC".

 

Speaking of which, Tony Dungy ought to know - he won a Superbowl in his 11th year as a HC.

 

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that you actually don't know enough details about all the Dungy and Reid losses in big games to be able to make that statement, but if you're challenged to "stand and deliver" on proving it, you'll turn about and say the person challenging you ought to prove that they did.

[What a Tuel]

 

38 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

If Andy Reid had Josh Allen, he wouldn't have lasted five seasons had he not at least gone to the Super Bowl.  

 

Who knows, maybe the 7th time's the charm for McD.  

 

 

Convenient excuse except you clearly don't give McD the same leeway. Maybe 7th time's a charm? McDermott had 5 years with Allen in the midst of a major rebuild and took us to the AFC Championship in year 3 of Allen.

 

Andy Reid was entrenched in Kansas City for 4 years before drafting Mahomes and even then Mahomes got to sit on the bench for a year to total 5 years of building. The roster itself was already a playoff roster as they consistently went to the playoffs.

 

You condense down McDermott and Beane having to do both at once (rebuild roster, and develop Allen), and you hopefully can quickly see they have accomplished quite a bit in this short time.

 

 

Edited June 18, 2023 by What a Tuel

[78thealltimegreat]

13 hours ago, ChicagoRic said:

Who is your replacement?  Who will absolutely, positively, 100%, be that "better" choice you are clamoring for?

 

I keep on hearing "McDermott is the problem."

 

Who is the solution? Someone actually available to be hired. 

Brian Griese the 49ers QB coach. Kellen Moore the OC out in San Diego was given a bad hand in Dallas. My personal favorite Ben Johnson the OC of the Detroit Lions….if he could that with Goff imagine him with Allen.

[PBF81]

15 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

Andy Reid says "hi".  No, seriously - Andy Reid had that reputation as the great regular season coach who couldn't get it done in the big games.  The years blur together, but after one of the Chiefs playoff losses, Tony Dungy banged the table on prime time TV and opined "The Chiefs may win a Superbowl, but they won't win it with Andy Reid as their HC".

 

Speaking of which, Tony Dungy ought to know - he won a Superbowl in his 11th year as a HC.

 

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that you actually don't know enough details about all the Dungy and Reid losses in big games to be able to make that statement, but if you're challenged to "stand and deliver" on proving it, you'll turn about and say the person challenging you ought to prove that they did.

 

I'm not talking about "choking."  I'm talking about making egregious errors.  

 

I'll admit that perhaps there's something out there that I'm unaware of.  I'll defer to your expertise or more knowledgeable disposition to point out to me, so that I can educate myself that is, to point out Reid's or Dungy's "13 Seconds" or otherwise repeatedly having his defense play 10-15 yards off the ball on critical short-yardage situations.  

 

I'm always game for updating myself.   Let me know please.  Thanks for your offer.  

 

 

[AZSanta]

McDermott has shown himself to be soft and seems to self destruct when situations arise like the 13 second debacle. His in game management is really bad. Calling timeouts at the wrong time, challenging and not challenging at the wrong time. Maybe he panics in these situations? I don't know but I don't think he has what it takes to bring a championship to Buffalo. We need a no nonsense tell it like it is kinda coach that isn't afraid to make mistakes and call people out for their mistakes. His Christian background probably makes him too nice to do things that are better for the team. His record with the Bills is great but honestly anyone would have a winning record with a Josh Allen type QB. 

[uticaclub]

1 hour ago, BUFFALOBART said:

The Pegulas were impressed, with Rex,

Bad things can happen, with a coaching hire.

Statistically the 2017 team wasnt any better than the Rex teams, we just had a series of calls and bounces go our way. 

[Solomon Grundy]

16 minutes ago, AZSanta said:

McDermott has shown himself to be soft and seems to self destruct when situations arise like the 13 second debacle. His in game management is really bad. Calling timeouts at the wrong time, challenging and not challenging at the wrong time. Maybe he panics in these situations? I don't know but I don't think he has what it takes to bring a championship to Buffalo. We need a no nonsense tell it like it is kinda coach that isn't afraid to make mistakes and call people out for their mistakes. His Christian background probably makes him too nice to do things that are better for the team. His record with the Bills is great but honestly anyone would have a winning record with a Josh Allen type QB. 

I wonder if Coach plays chess? Stratego?😎

[PBF81]

30 minutes ago, What a Tuel said:

Convenient excuse except you clearly don't give McD the same leeway. Maybe 7th time's a charm? McDermott had 5 years with Allen in the midst of a major rebuild and took us to the AFC Championship in year 3 of Allen.

 

Andy Reid was entrenched in Kansas City for 4 years before drafting Mahomes and even then Mahomes got to sit on the bench for a year to total 5 years of building. The roster itself was already a playoff roster as they consistently went to the playoffs.

 

You condense down McDermott and Beane having to do both at once (rebuild roster, and develop Allen), and you hopefully can quickly see they have accomplished quite a bit in this short time.

 

No, not true at all.  I don't give McD the same leeway because of "13 Seconds," the Cincy defensive debacle, his feigning that he has little to do with it and otherwise not coming clean, the Diggs drama, which is likely far from over, etc. 

 

"13 Seconds" and the Cincy debacle is enough for me.  As I've said, those are high-school coaching errors, despite some spinning it that only the experts can know or whatever nonsense.  LOL  

 

Again, show me where Reid ever did something as egregious as "13 Seconds"?  I've asked this question, what now, a half-dozen times to varying people, and we have yet that it gets answered with a straight answer.  

 

The season's going to play out however it plays out, regardless of what anyone here says or thinks, let's wait and see and discuss further towards the end of the season.  Hopefully it'll work out so that I look like a moron.   

 

 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Granted while not as likely you could still have the same concerns on defense, having to potentially replace the play caller every year.

 

Many of the rumors, posts claim both Beane and Mcd report to Pegula directly and only he can fire either of them.  Don't know if this really is the truth or not, may find out one of these years.  But don't necessarily think firing McD means Beane is gone too.  In most cases the GM gets at least a 2nd try at a HC hire before the team figures out he may actually be the problem and he gets let go.  I think it Beanes case the roster he's put together is pretty solid so he'd get a pass.

Fair points-  but DCs aren’t hired as HCs as often as OCs are.  It’s an offensive league and offensive HCs have been MUCH more successful than DCs in recent years.  Some may say it’s a trend. Some might say it’s the way of the nfl today.  Making sure 17 is firing on all cylinders >>>>> making sure the defense firing on all cylinders.  I don’t think it’s even a debate.  
 

Regarding the Beane/McD dynamic - I wouldn’t compare it to other situations.  Mcdermott chose his GM.  Not the other way around, which is usually the case.  We’ll just have to wait and see.  Or best case scenario, we win super bowls and they retire as Bills

[folz]

12 hours ago, Buffalo619 said:

Guy is a drama king. The culture has turned toxic. Superbowl this year or move on. We can find better. 

 

Ridiculous. How did he go from how he handled the Damar situation last year and all of his players, the media, and fans praising him for that, from every player talking about how great team chemistry is in Buffalo, and players wanting to return to the team (Cole, John Brown, Jordan P, Shaq, Poyer), etc. to a toxic culture? Because one, ONE, player, who I love, but has shown to be a bit of an out-spoken player in the past, had a bit of an issue about something? 

 

And Drama King? Please. Stefon and the media caused the drama, not McD. But he's a drama king because when a reporter specifically said, "how concerning is it?" He answered "very concerning." It's a loaded question. If he says he's not concerned then people are upset with him that he's not taking the Diggs situation seriously, if he answers that he's concerned, then he's creating drama. No doubt Stef had an issue that the team needed to address, but everything else was just media hype (because they want dramas to talk about). Or maybe it's because one former GM with a podcast is intimating that Frasier  left because McD is some dictator. Sounds to me more like a, "I wasn't fired, I quit" kind of thing...if even true or coming from Frasier in the first place.

 

 

11 hours ago, Billsflyer12 said:

So NO coach can now be fired unless the team has a replacement already that is “absolutely, positively, 100% be better?”

When has that been the standard in any sport?  No coach would EVER be fired if you have to have the “absolutely, positively, 100% be better“ guarantee because you could never guarantee that.

 

Well, that's taking it to the extreme. If you are talking standards, then yes, coaches get fired all of the time without the replacement being set, but most of those coaches were fired for having losing seasons, missing playoffs, etc.

 

I don't think that it is standard to fire a coach who just completed a three-year run of 13-3, 11-6, and 13-3 seasons. Would love to see an example of a coach who was fired immediately after a three-year run like that (my guess is that they are very few and far between).

 

 

 

11 hours ago, Since1981 said:

 “would another team hire Bills HC away?”  No. 
 

“would the bills hire 4 other HC if any choice?”   Yes. 
 

We don’t have a top 15 HC. We’d try many swings for top 15 QB. HC should be treated similarly 

 

These are your opinions, not facts.

 

If Terry fired Sean at the end of last season because he felt like some of you do, I guarantee that McDermott would have another HC gig either this year or next. A guy who turned around a team who was in a 17-year playoff funk to go to the playoffs 5 of 6 years, has a .639 win percentage, and headed the staff that drafted and developed Josh Allen. Easy hire for a number of teams.

 

When you say "the bills," who do you mean. Are we talking Terry and Beane? If so, I doubt there are many coaches that they would dump McDermott for (if any) at this point. 

 

Well you and Ross Tucker agree on that, but again, not a fact...just two opinions. Many people would have Sean McDermott as a top 10 coach in the league right now. Over the last 5 years, the Bills have the third best record in the NFL (only 1 win behind second place New Orleans).

 

 

6 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

You say "firing McD would be a huge gamble." Would it really? What makes you think that? 

 

You don't think a solid coach can win a lot of games with Allen as their QB? 

 

Do you think McD is irreplaceable? 

 

McD has consistently come up short come playoff time. Correct? Of course things could improve or get worse. There's no guarantee of either. 

 

Your premise of firing McD being a huge gamble isn't how I see it.

 

Imho, it's worth the risk because I'm not convinced McD will lead the Bills to the SB. I have a nice sample size to evaluate. 

 

In the last nine years, there were 114 playoff spots filled by teams. That means 114 chances for head coaches to "not come up short" and win a Super Bowl. But in those 9 years, only 6 Head Coaches have won a Super Bowl. That means 95% of head coaches who made the playoffs over the last nine years also came up short. 

[LABILLBACKER]

9 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

It's a bit premature for this.  Let's see how the season plays out.  It's a foolish proposition to think that this is going to be another drama-free season given the Diggs situation, the murkiness as to exactly why Frasier left, Miller's status, White's status, Davis' status, Dorsey's coaching, McD calling the D AND head coaching, etc., and that we're a shoe-in for another division title and a trip to the AFC CG.

 

If it happens though we'll all be ecstatic.  If not, then there will be heightened criticism and unrest in the media and among fans.  

 

If McD did end up getting replaced, then I'm sure that they'd be looking at how things develop during the season and making a decision in November (to themselves) at the earliest, not prior to the start of training camp this current season.  

 

McD's set himself up to either succeed to a greater extent, or he's given himself enough rope to hang himself.  What he does depends upon him, not any of us.  

 

It seems highly unlikely that the sentiment remains the same as it is now.  It seems far likelier that he'll either cement the trust in him by our fanbase, or that things are going to start falling apart for him.

 

Most of us have our suspicions, but at the end of the season there isn't a Bills fan that wouldn't be ecstatic if he took us to and won the Super Bowl.  

 

 

Listen,  I root for Sean just as hard as I did Marv.  But there comes a time when you absolutely have to outcoach your opponent in high leverage games. Name me one game where McDermott implemented a tactical game plan that outschemed his counterpart.  Let's not kid ourselves friends, Josh Allen is the reason we win 10-13 games every year. Now if we had a Belichick,  Reid, Shanahan type to draw up a game plan, that would be enough to put us over the top. Unfortunately we have too many fans content with a Schottenheimer type coach.  "Just win in the regular season and we're good"........Call me crazy but my goal was always a Lombardi.  Not getting out of playoff droughts.

[section122]

I'd prefer a different less abstract question for the mcdermott bashers.  Which year did the Bills lose in the playoffs where they should have won the super bowl?

 

Even the 13 seconds game.  That was a divisional game they still had 2 more games to win and the Chiefs lost the next week at home to the Bengals.

 

So instead of hearing how he blew it I would really like to know which year was THE year 

[hondo in seattle]

We have a SB caliber QB.  But, IMHO, we haven't had a SB caliber roster.  And yet folks want to fire the HC for not getting to the SB.

 

Pre-McD, for 17 years long painful years, we didn't stand a chance of getting to the SB.   We finally found a coach who gets into the playoff dance.  We haven't won yet, but each year with McD we have hope.  We enjoy a possibility that we didn't have before.

 

Yet we want to fire the guy.  We'd rather roll the dice on a hot coordinator when history tells us most hot coordinators flame out as HCs.  

 

I've heard all the arguments but, personally, I don't get it. 

[AmishRifle]

10 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Listen,  I root for Sean just as hard as I did Marv.  But there comes a time when you absolutely have to outcoach your opponent in high leverage games. Name me one game where McDermott implemented a tactical game plan that outschemed his counterpart.  Let's not kid ourselves friends, Josh Allen is the reason we win 10-13 games every year. Now if we had a Belichick,  Reid, Shanahan type to draw up a game plan, that would be enough to put us over the top. Unfortunately we have too many fans content with a Schottenheimer type coach.  "Just win in the regular season and we're good"........Call me crazy but my goal was always a Lombardi.  Not getting out of playoff droughts.

Tactical game plan:  Regular season win at KC last season.  The defensive coverage call that forced an interception to end the game was fantastic.  Post game, Mahomes admitted that the call got him.  
 

Just providing an example as you requested above.  I like McDermott but am nudging closer to scrutinizing his performance as head coach.  I’m a fan of consistency and stability but Philly is a great example of coaching hires if you get it right.  I love the swagger that Sirianni brings.  McDermott is almost too corporate and buttoned up.

[Billsflyer12]

31 minutes ago, folz said:

 

I don't think that it is standard to fire a coach who just completed a three-year run of 13-3, 11-6, and 13-3 seasons. Would love to see an example of a coach who was fired immediately after a three-year run like that (my guess is that they are very few and far between

There are lots of coaches in many leagues who were fired after good seasons and great track records.

 

- Milwaukee Bucks just fired their coach who won them a Championship after getting them the #1 seed in this year playoffs but losing 1st rd.

- Bayern Munich fired their coach mid season while in 1st place while in a 11 years straight of league Championships streak

- Eagles have fired 2 coaches in the past 10 years that both had accomplished more then McD

- Marty Schottenheimer (who many compare McD with) was fired after a 14-4 record but poor playoff performance

- HOF coach Tony Dungy was fired from Bucs after making playoffs

- Bruce Boudreau was fired right after winning the Presidents Trophy in NHL

Edited June 18, 2023 by Billsflyer12

[JerseyBills]

Been saying the exact same thing! 

 

McD has racked up 41 wins including playoffs last 3 years , that's elite and would definitely get a HC job if fired

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Listen,  I root for Sean just as hard as I did Marv.  But there comes a time when you absolutely have to outcoach your opponent in high leverage games. Name me one game where McDermott implemented a tactical game plan that outschemed his counterpart.  Let's not kid ourselves friends, Josh Allen is the reason we win 10-13 games every year. Now if we had a Belichick,  Reid, Shanahan type to draw up a game plan, that would be enough to put us over the top. Unfortunately we have too many fans content with a Schottenheimer type coach.  "Just win in the regular season and we're good"........Call me crazy but my goal was always a Lombardi.  Not getting out of playoff droughts.

 

I fully agree, but my point is that nothing's going to change prior to the end of the season, and what I was referring to as "being premature," was which coach(es) we should go after.  I'm also allowing for what you and I consider to be an incredibly unlikely scenario where McD for some unbeknownst and unforeseen reason all of a sudden becomes the coach that he hasn't been to date.  

 

Otherwise, it stands to reason that several other great coaching candidates will emerge as well in addition to the handful that are now spoken about as being "next in line" kinda thing.  

 

For better or for worse, we're stuck with what we have.  Differing opinions aside, we're all going to be rooting for the team no matter the circumstances.  I really do believe, strongly, that the reality of the situation is going to become painfully clear as the season wears on.  But we'll see what happens.  

 

I wish there weren't so much seeming animosity here over simple disagreements as to things of this nature.