Deep dive ( McDermott )

[Shaw66]

11 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I agree with the regression to the mean bit

 

But I don't think there's increased job security for McDermott in having no DC.

 

I believe the vast majority of the time, a new coach brings in his own OC, DC, and staff of assistants.

 

It's pretty much standard and expected to be on a new coach's plate.

Not so much if you come in to win now.  It isn't a rebuild or anything close.  It's take the existing team and make the offense better, bit keep the defense. 

 

Not that any of it is a big deal.  

[PBF81]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I think your point here is dead on the money, except I don't know how many fans make that assumption.  

 

First, I think McDermott has the culture part down, but he clearly doesn't have the how to win the playoffs part down.  There was progress from his first playoffs to his second and then to his third, until the end of the game.  What happened last season is anyone's guess, as has been discussed here at length.  He clearly needs to keep getting better at the playoff part. 

 

If McDermott were replaced, I don't think the new guy would have to be a McDermott clone on the culture side.   He has to be good on the culture side, but his rules don't have to be McDermott's rules.  

 

Players are in it to win, not to burnish the reputations of their coaches.  They just want coaches who make sense and who win.  

 

 

I would agree with everythig there except for ... 

 

Quote

... and then to his third, until the end of the game. 

 

... McD did next to nothing to win that game.  Allen & Davis got into a zone and did everything themselves.  Only one other offensive player did anything, Beasley had 6 catchess for 60 yards and a pair of 1st-Downs.  Diggs did nothing.  Our running game apart form Allen sucked water buffalo balls.  

Davis had 8 catches, all of which went for either a 1st-Down or a TD.  Allen had 6 rushing 1st-Downs.  The rest of the team including Diggs (1) logged 7 total.  

The defense sucked and in regulation only allowed the Chiefs more points than all but teams that were ranked 18th, 20th, and 26th ranked scoring Ds did during the season. We ranked 1st. If ever there was a chance for McD to shine, perhaps not allowing that many points as the first ranked D would have been it. “13 Seconds” was icing on the cake.  The Chiefs had 27 1st-Downs and a significant edge in time-of-possession in regulation.  

 

Ironically, Oliver’s the only member of the D that played well in the only playoff game he’s ever done anything in besides the game vs. Skylar Thompson last season. He had 1 sack 2 TFLs, and 2 QB Hits. Not one other member of the front-7 logged a sack, TFL, or a QB Hit. Not one.

 

That game was entirely Allen/Davis in a zone.  McD had little if anything to do with it besides say nothing and let Allen be Allen and Davis happened to be hot.  I suspect we'll see more of that if the fans can be patient and allow him to fully recover from his ankle injury.  

 

If you have a different take, based upon factual info, I'm all ears as to why, besides the elusive "intangibles," McD did anything to help the team.  If our QB hadn't been Allen we'd have lost worse than we did the year before.  

 

 

[Solomon Grundy]

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

Allen is far better than Kelly and Moon,

Call me when Josh Allen's bust is in the HOF

[In Summary]

On 6/16/2023 at 3:24 AM, Buffalo716 said:

… And prefers press man on third downs…  

Is this different that what we've seen under Frazier?

[Solomon Grundy]

40 minutes ago, Since1981 said:

essentially Beane is CEO. McD is COO.

I tend to believe the reverse. McD brought in Beane. 

[PonyBoy]

On 6/16/2023 at 7:26 AM, Gugny said:

Yes, I suppose.  I’m definitely not saying he can’t pull this off. I’m just a tad worried. 

I see this as if McD is gonna be on the hot seat, he's going out on his terms. His specialty is a D coach, he's going to own it, Win or lose. 

[Buffalo716]

31 minutes ago, In Summary said:

Is this different that what we've seen under Frazier?

Fraziers Play calling did change drastically over five seasons

 

Originally he favored more of a Disguised cover three look on third … It shifted to a Tampa 2 or a cover 4 palms …  but by the middle of last year Fraser did like press man on third down

 

That may have been McDermitt telling him to get more aggressive… But even in the playoff game he was 10 yards back
 

I think Sean will prefer press man on third downs In tight situation… Where Frasier Would usually revert back to his combination coverages

Edited June 18, 2023 by Buffalo716

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

I would agree with everythig there except for ... 

 

 

... McD did next to nothing to win that game.  Allen & Davis got into a zone and did everything themselves.  Only one other offensive player did anything, Beasley had 6 catchess for 60 yards and a pair of 1st-Downs.  Diggs did nothing.  Our running game apart form Allen sucked water buffalo balls.  

Davis had 8 catches, all of which went for either a 1st-Down or a TD.  Allen had 6 rushing 1st-Downs.  The rest of the team including Diggs (1) logged 7 total.  

The defense sucked and in regulation only allowed the Chiefs more points than all but teams that were ranked 18th, 20th, and 26th ranked scoring Ds did during the season. We ranked 1st. If ever there was a chance for McD to shine, perhaps not allowing that many points as the first ranked D would have been it. “13 Seconds” was icing on the cake.  The Chiefs had 27 1st-Downs and a significant edge in time-of-possession in regulation.  

 

Ironically, Oliver’s the only member of the D that played well in the only playoff game he’s ever done anything in besides the game vs. Skylar Thompson last season. He had 1 sack 2 TFLs, and 2 QB Hits. Not one other member of the front-7 logged a sack, TFL, or a QB Hit. Not one.

 

That game was entirely Allen/Davis in a zone.  McD had little if anything to do with it besides say nothing and let Allen be Allen and Davis happened to be hot.  I suspect we'll see more of that if the fans can be patient and allow him to fully recover from his ankle injury.  

 

If you have a different take, based upon factual info, I'm all ears as to why, besides the elusive "intangibles," McD did anything to help the team.  If our QB hadn't been Allen we'd have lost worse than we did the year before.  

 

 

This totally and absolutely ignores the role of the coach.   Totally.  

 

The man oversaw and contributed to the development of the offense and defense.  He participated in the development of the game plan.  He made countless decisions during the game.  

 

He created the culture in which Josh Allen went from being a QB that several teams didn't want to being recognized as one of the truly great football players of his era.  

 

You seem to think that the guy just sits around picking his nose until it's time to decide whether to punt or go for it.  

 

It's completely absurd to say he did next to nothing.  He built the team, for heaven's sake.   

 

Do you actually think that if the Pegulas had hired Beane first, and Beane had hired some other coach and then went on to acquire exactly the same players, that that other coach would have built a team with a top five offense and a top five defense?  What do you think coaches do, all day, every day, year after year?   

 

What you said is absurd. 

 

 

Edited June 18, 2023 by Shaw66

[LABILLBACKER]

7 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I think Frazier pretty much ran McDermott's playbook.  McDermott wouldn't have it any other way.  I think what was different was the play-calling, and the aggressiveness.  

 

I've said this before, maybe even in response to you, but I think Frazier's history in Buffalo goes something like this:

 

1.  McDermott was a first-time head coach and needed a defensive coordinator.  Frazier looked like a perfect fit, because he ran a defensive scheme similar to what McDermott want AND because he had head-coaching experience.  In Frazier, McDermott got someone he could comfortable with running the defense and got an in-house mentor to help him learn the ins and outs of the head coaching job.  It was a classic choice by someone who knew he had a lot to learn and knew he needed help. 

 

2.  For the second and third years of McDermott's tenure, he valued continuity over almost everything else.  He was building a foundation, and he didn't want the foundation shaking.   Frazier was running a defense that McD was satisfied with.  

 

3.  The assumption always was that Frazier would get a head-coach gig somewhere along the line. 

 

4.  In years 4, 5, and 6, now the Bills are getting good, and McDermott has taken the bit as head coach.   He's confident and in control, and I suspect he started setting goals for Frazier that, it turns out, Frazier didn't achieve.  Goals related to making the defense more aggressive, more big play oriented.  

 

5.  Frazier now becomes a bit of a liability because he's Black.  McDermott doesn't want to fire a high-profile Black coach.  After 13 seconds, they really don't want to fire him and make him look like the scapegoat.  And, unfortunately for the Bills, because they aren't having more success in the playoffs, Frazier isn't getting the looks at head coach jobs that the Bills had anticipated. 

 

6.  Then, 2022 happens and McDermott can't wait any longer and decides to make a move.  

 

It all makes sense to me that it played out something like that.   The fundamental point is, however, that Frazier was running a defense like the kind of defense that McDermott wants to run - that is, the formations, rotations, general philosophies were the same.  The problem was that Frazier didn't implement the defense the way McDermott wanted.   Included in that may be the McDermott didn't think that Frazier and his coaches weren't getting enough out of film study and weren't installing wrinkles from week to week that would make the Bills' defense tougher to attack.  You'll say, well, why didn't McDermott fix it?   That's not the way McDermott works.  He delegates.  He is reluctant to take over the jobs of people who work for him.  In Frazier's case, I'm pretty sure that McDermott kept setting goals for Frazier to improve at certain things, and it just didn't happen.  So, in January, McDermott pulled the trigger.  

That's an amazingly accurate timeline.  I just wish Sean had demanded more defensive aggressiveness from Leslie in 2020 during the afcc loss. It might have eliminated 13 seconds altogether and possibly resulted in a Lombardi the next year. 

[PBF81]

22 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

This totally and absolutely ignores the role of the coach.   Totally.  

 

The man oversaw and contributed to the development of the offense and defense.  He participated in the development of the game plan.  He made countless decisions during the game.  

 

He created the culture in which Josh Allen went from being a QB that several teams didn't want to being recognized as one of the truly great football players of his era.  

 

You seem to think that the guy just sits around picking his nose until it's time to decide whether to punt or go for it.  

 

It's completely absurd to say he did next to nothing.  He built the team, for heaven's sake.   

 

Do you actually think that if the Pegulas had hired Beane first, and Beane had hired some other coach and then went on to acquire exactly the same players, that that other coach would have built a team with a top five offense and a top five defense?  What do you think coaches do, all day, every day, year after year?   

 

What you said is absurd. 

 

The role of the coach is to see to it that two individual players post career days on offense while the rest of the team sorely underachieves?  

 

Well, OK.  I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then.  

 

And what game plan?  LOL  Can you identify what the game plan was in that game?   What, play worse with your #1 D than 80% of KC's opponents, don't run the ball well at all, and tell Allen to simply fling it to Davis all game for all the passing TDs?  

 

If that was the game plan, then why haven't they done it since?  It was a fantastic game plan, who would disagree.   

 

It's foolish not to use that game plan again.  I mean if it's that easy to get Allen to play like that, ... and Davis.  I'd love to seen our $96M WR have a playoff game even half of what that was on a regular basis.  Why can't McD get that into a game plan?  

 

Allen was simply hot that postseason.  If it was a gameplan, he'd have done the same in any of the other postseasons, which he hasn't done.  Either that or McD doesn't think it was that great a game plan I suppose.  

 

Just sayin' 

 

 

BTW, Allen had more passing TDs in those two games than he's had in 7 other playoff games total.  

 

That doesn't have game plan written on it.  

Edited June 18, 2023 by PBF81

[Maynard]

Should have never let Daboll leave the building. Oh well. 

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, Maynard said:

Should have never let Daboll leave the building. Oh well. 

Brian Daboll was fired from 3 jobs as a coordinator and wasn’t part of McDermotts 1 year playoff turnaround with one of the worst nfl rosters 

 

dont act like Daboll is head and shoulders above McDermott 

[GoBills808]

Can we stop using the 2017 playoffs as proof McDermott is some kind of great coach lol, he was what one game better than Rex Ryan

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Can we stop using the 2017 playoffs as proof McDermott is some kind of great coach lol, he was what one game better than Rex Ryan

Rex had a much better roster lol 

 

and the culture change ….. wrex had a clown show

[GoBills808]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

Rex had a much better roster lol 

 

and the culture change ….. wrex had a clown show

Pretty sure McDermott brought in Poyer and Hyde

[PBF81]

14 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Can we stop using the 2017 playoffs as proof McDermott is some kind of great coach lol, he was what one game better than Rex Ryan

 

And Ryan's team at least scored more than they allowed by +20 to McD's -57.  

 

Also, our units ranked significantly higher.  12th & 13th in Scoring/Yardage O to McD's 22nd & 29th.  Differences of -10 and -16.  

 

On D, 15th & 19th to McD's 18th & 26th.   Differences of -3 & -7

 

 

[Buffalo716]

14 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Pretty sure McDermott brought in Poyer and Hyde

That doesn’t make a better roster lol

 

Poyer was a 3rd tier FA that got put into the best spot to succeed by coach McDermott 

 

wrex had Mario and Hughes and Kyle and Marcell… Sammy , Percy , bob woods , goodwin

 

McDermott had stone hands zay jones, Deontae Thompson, Popeyes kelvin benjamin, and Andre Holmes …

 

and an aging shady 

 

talent difference was crazy

Edited June 18, 2023 by Buffalo716

[PBF81]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

That doesn’t make a better roster lol

 

Poyer was a 3rd tier FA that got put into the best spot to succeed by coach McDermott 

 

wrex had Mario and Hughes and Kyle and Marcell… Sammy , Percy , bob woods , goodwin

 

McDermott had stone hands zay jones, Deontae Thompson, Popeyes kelvin benjamin, and Andre Holmes …

 

and an aging shady 

 

talent difference was crazy

 

So if Ryan had a better team, why is Beane getting love?  

 

 

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

So if Ryan had a better team, why is Beane getting love?  

 

 

Beane is good but far from perfect 

 

He literally didn’t draft Tre , Dawkins or Milano … cornerstones … hitting on Allen IS his godsend 

 

he’s made head scratcher’s and good decisions 

Edited June 18, 2023 by Buffalo716

[PBF81]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Beane is good but far from perfect 

 

He literally didn’t draft Tre , Dawkins or Milano … cornerstones … hitting on Allen IS his godsend 

 

he’s made head scratcher’s 

 

Which players did he draft that are good and on the team, besides the obvious single pick of Allen who singlehandedly revolutionized the team?  

 

... that are "cornerstones" or even impact players?  

 

 

Edited June 18, 2023 by PBF81