Deep dive ( McDermott )

[NastyNateSoldiers]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

It’s not about blitzing 6-7 like a madman all game 

 

it’s about strategic timing and down and distance ….

 

Frazier on 3 and 12 will feign pressure and drop 7 rush 4…. Not even a bad move with the bills ability to hide coverage 

 

McDermott and probably the correct answer in a big game is ….

 

show pressure … press man … And bring six… They can’t block it and you’re getting home before they could get 12 yards … He’s gonna have to get rid of it for a 4 yard dink and dunk or get sacked 

I vividly remember JJ defenses and there was a ton of action around the LOS he’ll give u ton of looks there’s no doubt and I respect the philosophy but much rather have hired Fangio I seen him take a Defense with 6 un drafted players and have them playing at a top level I’ve also seen use both 4-3 and 3-4 sets so he’s hybrid schematically. McD is a good defensive mind hopefully he makes the difference especially in the playoffs. 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

I vividly remember JJ defenses and there was a ton of action around the LOS he’ll give u ton of looks there’s no doubt and I respect the philosophy but much rather have hired Fangio I seen him take a Defense with 6 un drafted players and have them playing at a top level I’ve also seen use both 4-3 and 3-4 sets so he’s hybrid schematically. McD is a good defensive mind hopefully he makes the difference especially in the playoffs. 

 

Which successful Fangio defenses had 6 undrafted players? 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

It’s far from a vanilla defense … I very rarely trash players or coaches because i know how hard it is 

 

Frazier wasn’t running a JV defense 

 

he ran a basic nickel package … aka 6 man box … 4 line 2 backers 

 

And he didn’t have a penchant for blitzing… BUT

 

everything in the back end was very sophisticated… Your average two Bills Drive poster couldn’t tell the difference between a cover 3 cloud masked in a 2 shell or a Tampa 2

 

and Frazier like McDermott hid everything… cover 3 looks would be Tampa 2 post snap… feigning dual a gap man could be press quarters … single high safety looks back out to 2 deep

 

man on 1/3 of the field and bracket coverage on the other half 

 

very sophisticated coverages…

 

we definitely couldn’t execute them last year while hurt

 

This. It is why secondary injuries hurt the Bills more than other teams even if they have depth (and at safety our depth sucked). Because so much of what they do requires communication and chemistry it is why Hyde and Poyer have alwaya been greater than the sum of their parts. 

 

But most football fans have no idea what they are watching. So unless you are blitzing 25 times a game you are "vanilla". 

[Doc Brown]

1 hour ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

I would feel much better if Frasier stepped away right after the season and we brought in Fangio . I respect McD acumen on D but I have seen Fangio do more with less plus we could’ve kept him from going to Miami, which btw he’s going to have that defense humming ! 

I doubt Fangio goes to a team with a defensive minded head coach.  Plus, where have you seen Fangio do more with less?

[GunnerBill]

14 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

How many of those offensive HCs don't have an OC tho

 

Yea that is the ciritcal question. Who is actually doing a lot of the prep work during the week. There was speculation Al Holcomb would be that guy and if that is the case and he just doesn't have the title, fine. But if McDermott is going to try and do all the film study, all the game planning, all the installation and every defensive meeting then I do think that is a hell of a burden in addition to being a Head Coach. 

 

It might mean nothing but I am slightly worried by the rotating chair approach to DC pressers during OTAs. They have put different guys up each week which might just be a coach development point but it might also suggest that there isn't a nominated "de-facto" DC for Monday-Saturday. And I'd rather there were.

[JGMcD2]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Which successful Fangio defenses had 6 undrafted players? 

 

On his Madden franchise mode IRRC. 

[LABILLBACKER]

On 6/16/2023 at 6:19 AM, Gugny said:

I’m pretty sure those concerned about McDermott taking over the defense don’t doubt his ability to improve that side of the ball. 
 

The concern is that McDermott has struggled as an in-game head coach. 
 

Adding a significant amount of responsibility to a job in which he’s far from mastered seems like a recipe for disaster to me. 
 

When the other 31 teams are heading into the season with Defensive Coordinators, this move doesn’t strike me as being “ahead of the curve,” in any way. 
 

There’s a reason nobody else does this. 

How Sean deals with the D is the least of my concerns. He'll be more aggressive with blitzes, press coverage and it will reflect in an improved D.  It's the other responsibilities of a HC that terrify me. How he deals with the offense, ST and in game adjustments will dictate the temperature of his seat.

[Shaw66]

On 6/16/2023 at 6:22 AM, newcam2012 said:

We are about to find out how good McD is. That's not a bad thing. 

 

What is hard to explain is why did he allow Fraizer to run such a defense? It sounds like a McD defense is fairly different than Fraizer's. 

 

Usually a defensive minded coach will put his implant of the DCs defense and vice versa. 

 

Have to believe that McD was happy with Fraizer's D. He was here for several years and was always backed up by McD. 

 

I think it's fair to say Fraizer's defenses disappointed in the playoffs. Yet, he remained with the team for years with similar disappointing results. Ultimately, someone realized Fraizer and his D scheme couldn't get it done. 

 

Did McD try to alter Fraizer's D? Improve it or tweet it? If not why not? 

 

I'm excited to see McD run a defense. Expectations seem pretty high. Just maybe a Bills led D can make a few critical stops in the playoffs to advance further. 

I think Frazier pretty much ran McDermott's playbook.  McDermott wouldn't have it any other way.  I think what was different was the play-calling, and the aggressiveness.  

 

I've said this before, maybe even in response to you, but I think Frazier's history in Buffalo goes something like this:

 

1.  McDermott was a first-time head coach and needed a defensive coordinator.  Frazier looked like a perfect fit, because he ran a defensive scheme similar to what McDermott want AND because he had head-coaching experience.  In Frazier, McDermott got someone he could comfortable with running the defense and got an in-house mentor to help him learn the ins and outs of the head coaching job.  It was a classic choice by someone who knew he had a lot to learn and knew he needed help. 

 

2.  For the second and third years of McDermott's tenure, he valued continuity over almost everything else.  He was building a foundation, and he didn't want the foundation shaking.   Frazier was running a defense that McD was satisfied with.  

 

3.  The assumption always was that Frazier would get a head-coach gig somewhere along the line. 

 

4.  In years 4, 5, and 6, now the Bills are getting good, and McDermott has taken the bit as head coach.   He's confident and in control, and I suspect he started setting goals for Frazier that, it turns out, Frazier didn't achieve.  Goals related to making the defense more aggressive, more big play oriented.  

 

5.  Frazier now becomes a bit of a liability because he's Black.  McDermott doesn't want to fire a high-profile Black coach.  After 13 seconds, they really don't want to fire him and make him look like the scapegoat.  And, unfortunately for the Bills, because they aren't having more success in the playoffs, Frazier isn't getting the looks at head coach jobs that the Bills had anticipated. 

 

6.  Then, 2022 happens and McDermott can't wait any longer and decides to make a move.  

 

It all makes sense to me that it played out something like that.   The fundamental point is, however, that Frazier was running a defense like the kind of defense that McDermott wants to run - that is, the formations, rotations, general philosophies were the same.  The problem was that Frazier didn't implement the defense the way McDermott wanted.   Included in that may be the McDermott didn't think that Frazier and his coaches weren't getting enough out of film study and weren't installing wrinkles from week to week that would make the Bills' defense tougher to attack.  You'll say, well, why didn't McDermott fix it?   That's not the way McDermott works.  He delegates.  He is reluctant to take over the jobs of people who work for him.  In Frazier's case, I'm pretty sure that McDermott kept setting goals for Frazier to improve at certain things, and it just didn't happen.  So, in January, McDermott pulled the trigger.  

[Reks Ryan]

21 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Every coach is forced to put backups in starter position every year due to injuries etc--they all have to take "meaningful snaps" at some point. When in, they are paid to make plays. Backups have to play in the NFL every week--it's not coaching genius that makes them functional.  It's skill, preparedness and necessity.

 

Wallace struggled his whole time here.  He just had his best season in LV.  Benford will be a backup to White. Jackson will go back to being a backup behind a second year player.

 

Look, he's a good coach.  Getting "a lot out of a little" is fine and all, but getting the most out of your best players in the most important games is the metric that actually separates the HCs in this league, not coaching up benchwarmers.

Strongly Disagree that Levi Wallace struggled his whole time with Bills.  He had very few noticeably bad games in his 4 seasons    He was at least an average starting NFL CB on a good defense.  Just a couple points from his first year and last year with the Bills. 

2018 - Wallace received an overall grade of 83.5 from Pro Football Focus, which ranked fifth among all qualifying cornerbacks in 2018.  He also received the highest PFF grade among all rookie cornerbacks.   2021 - He allowed just a 72.6 passer rating when targeted.   

 

Give most of the credit to Wallace for overcoming limited athletic ability by NFL standards. The Bills coaching and system was also a factor in his success.  He had a rough game when the Steelers came to OP last year, but overall he seemed to have a decent year in Pittsburgh. 

[Shaw66]

On 6/16/2023 at 7:58 AM, PBF81 said:

 

Once again, the vibe is that he places relationships over winning.  

 

This is, I think, your take, and I think you misunderstand or mischaracterize what McDermott is about.  

 

McDermott's philosophy is that football is the ultimate team game.   In order to win, you have to have the best team, as opposed to the best collection of individual players.   

 

In order to have the best team (and this is something the players on just about all the winning NFL and NBA teams say), the players have to care deeply about each other and play for each other.   

 

So, yes, McDermott cares about relationships, not OVER winning, but because relationships are ESSENTIAL to winning in a team sport.  

[SCBills]

On 6/16/2023 at 6:22 AM, newcam2012 said:

We are about to find out how good McD is. That's not a bad thing. 

 

What is hard to explain is why did he allow Fraizer to run such a defense? It sounds like a McD defense is fairly different than Fraizer's. 

 

Usually a defensive minded coach will put his implant of the DCs defense and vice versa. 

 

Have to believe that McD was happy with Fraizer's D. He was here for several years and was always backed up by McD. 

 

I think it's fair to say Fraizer's defenses disappointed in the playoffs. Yet, he remained with the team for years with similar disappointing results. Ultimately, someone realized Fraizer and his D scheme couldn't get it done. 

 

Did McD try to alter Fraizer's D? Improve it or tweet it? If not why not? 

 

I'm excited to see McD run a defense. Expectations seem pretty high. Just maybe a Bills led D can make a few critical stops in the playoffs to advance further. 

Agreed.  
 

I’m pretty excited to see what McDermott’s defense looks like. 
 

That being said, it’s bizarre that a defensive guy would allow his DC to run such a (seemingly) different style defense than the one he runs.  
 

Especially going from aggressive to bend-don’t-break.   That seems like it would drive one crazy … I suppose the defense worked in the regular season, so alls well that ends well .. but those playoff games had to have been brutal to preside over?.. no?

[newcam2012]

36 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I think Frazier pretty much ran McDermott's playbook.  McDermott wouldn't have it any other way.  I think what was different was the play-calling, and the aggressiveness.  

 

I've said this before, maybe even in response to you, but I think Frazier's history in Buffalo goes something like this:

 

1.  McDermott was a first-time head coach and needed a defensive coordinator.  Frazier looked like a perfect fit, because he ran a defensive scheme similar to what McDermott want AND because he had head-coaching experience.  In Frazier, McDermott got someone he could comfortable with running the defense and got an in-house mentor to help him learn the ins and outs of the head coaching job.  It was a classic choice by someone who knew he had a lot to learn and knew he needed help. 

 

2.  For the second and third years of McDermott's tenure, he valued continuity over almost everything else.  He was building a foundation, and he didn't want the foundation shaking.   Frazier was running a defense that McD was satisfied with.  

 

3.  The assumption always was that Frazier would get a head-coach gig somewhere along the line. 

 

4.  In years 4, 5, and 6, now the Bills are getting good, and McDermott has taken the bit as head coach.   He's confident and in control, and I suspect he started setting goals for Frazier that, it turns out, Frazier didn't achieve.  Goals related to making the defense more aggressive, more big play oriented.  

 

5.  Frazier now becomes a bit of a liability because he's Black.  McDermott doesn't want to fire a high-profile Black coach.  After 13 seconds, they really don't want to fire him and make him look like the scapegoat.  And, unfortunately for the Bills, because they aren't having more success in the playoffs, Frazier isn't getting the looks at head coach jobs that the Bills had anticipated. 

 

6.  Then, 2022 happens and McDermott can't wait any longer and decides to make a move.  

 

It all makes sense to me that it played out something like that.   The fundamental point is, however, that Frazier was running a defense like the kind of defense that McDermott wants to run - that is, the formations, rotations, general philosophies were the same.  The problem was that Frazier didn't implement the defense the way McDermott wanted.   Included in that may be the McDermott didn't think that Frazier and his coaches weren't getting enough out of film study and weren't installing wrinkles from week to week that would make the Bills' defense tougher to attack.  You'll say, well, why didn't McDermott fix it?   That's not the way McDermott works.  He delegates.  He is reluctant to take over the jobs of people who work for him.  In Frazier's case, I'm pretty sure that McDermott kept setting goals for Frazier to improve at certain things, and it just didn't happen.  So, in January, McDermott pulled the trigger.  

Well thought out and a good read. 

 

Certainly is plausible. Lots of unknowns that will probably never be answered. 

 

I'm not so sure about the color issue you eluded too. That never entered my mind and seemed kind of odd. Perhaps you are right. 

[PBF81]

40 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

This is, I think, your take, and I think you misunderstand or mischaracterize what McDermott is about.  

 

McDermott's philosophy is that football is the ultimate team game.   In order to win, you have to have the best team, as opposed to the best collection of individual players.   

 

In order to have the best team (and this is something the players on just about all the winning NFL and NBA teams say), the players have to care deeply about each other and play for each other.   

 

So, yes, McDermott cares about relationships, not OVER winning, but because relationships are ESSENTIAL to winning in a team sport.  

 

Well, it is debatable, but yes, that is my take.  

 

Most of what gets stated here is peoples' takes.  Hence the disagreements.  LOL  

 

 

Edited June 17, 2023 by PBF81

[pennstate10]

19 hours ago, Turbo44 said:

Honestly, I have a hard time forgiving him for 13 seconds, especially if he took over gamecalling as rumored. That was our best chance for a championship and was a total choke job from the lack of pooch kick to the defensive formation. He literally had to do 10 things wrong to lose the game and proceeded to do those 10 things.

Once and for all,it wasn’t the defense “formation” that lost the 13 second game. 
it was how the players played. 
The DB funneled everything to inside releases. Which is fine in a 13 sec drill if the other team has no TO. 
 

But Chiefs had TO. The DB needed to play tighter.  They had deep cushions. I don’t know why they didn’t play tighter. Was it coaching, talent, misinterpretation of the goals?  I don’t know. But the “formation”. — a 3-2-6, was fine. DBs needed to play it tighter. 

[pennstate10]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

I think Frazier pretty much ran McDermott's playbook.  McDermott wouldn't have it any other way.  I think what was different was the play-calling, and the aggressiveness.  

 

I've said this before, maybe even in response to you, but I think Frazier's history in Buffalo goes something like this:

 

1.  McDermott was a first-time head coach and needed a defensive coordinator.  Frazier looked like a perfect fit, because he ran a defensive scheme similar to what McDermott want AND because he had head-coaching experience.  In Frazier, McDermott got someone he could comfortable with running the defense and got an in-house mentor to help him learn the ins and outs of the head coaching job.  It was a classic choice by someone who knew he had a lot to learn and knew he needed help. 

 

2.  For the second and third years of McDermott's tenure, he valued continuity over almost everything else.  He was building a foundation, and he didn't want the foundation shaking.   Frazier was running a defense that McD was satisfied with.  

 

3.  The assumption always was that Frazier would get a head-coach gig somewhere along the line. 

 

4.  In years 4, 5, and 6, now the Bills are getting good, and McDermott has taken the bit as head coach.   He's confident and in control, and I suspect he started setting goals for Frazier that, it turns out, Frazier didn't achieve.  Goals related to making the defense more aggressive, more big play oriented.  

 

5.  Frazier now becomes a bit of a liability because he's Black.  McDermott doesn't want to fire a high-profile Black coach.  After 13 seconds, they really don't want to fire him and make him look like the scapegoat.  And, unfortunately for the Bills, because they aren't having more success in the playoffs, Frazier isn't getting the looks at head coach jobs that the Bills had anticipated. 

 

6.  Then, 2022 happens and McDermott can't wait any longer and decides to make a move.  

 

It all makes sense to me that it played out something like that.   The fundamental point is, however, that Frazier was running a defense like the kind of defense that McDermott wants to run - that is, the formations, rotations, general philosophies were the same.  The problem was that Frazier didn't implement the defense the way McDermott wanted.   Included in that may be the McDermott didn't think that Frazier and his coaches weren't getting enough out of film study and weren't installing wrinkles from week to week that would make the Bills' defense tougher to attack.  You'll say, well, why didn't McDermott fix it?   That's not the way McDermott works.  He delegates.  He is reluctant to take over the jobs of people who work for him.  In Frazier's case, I'm pretty sure that McDermott kept setting goals for Frazier to improve at certain things, and it just didn't happen.  So, in January, McDermott pulled the trigger.  

+1

Excellent analysis. As a long time Bills fan, this all makes perfect sense. 

[McBean]

On 6/16/2023 at 2:24 AM, Buffalo716 said:

I’ve had some time in the last couple weeks… To review Sean McDermott the defensive coordinator

 

Since he will be the guy most responsible for our success this season,.. As the head man and defensive shot caller

 

I’ve seen a lot of snaps from McDermott from Philadelphia through Carolina and even watching how the defense has morphed in Buffalo

 

I would not call him a schematic guru… but he learned from Jim Johnson … one of the best schematic blitzers

 

Many of Seans principles that he learned from Johnson have become Staples in the game… Such as loading up the box in a duel a gap pressure… Vintage Johnson McDermott.. or feigning pressure

 

Sean does rely on the talent of his front four… But as 4 doesn’t get home for a quarter and a half… He’s willing to bring five… And if five doesnt hit… 6

 

He will not let you sit back for 60 minutes and pick you apart while being comfortable…

 

He hides combination coverages… And prefers press man on third downs… He also gets the most out of every player he has over 15 years

 

nothing he does is super exotic.., but it serves a purpose… he will give you a look 4 times… and pull out and go coverage 4 straight … but the 5th… he brings 6 and you can’t block it 

 

his situational awareness stands out defensively… being complacent is a death sentence … he hides everything as good as anybody and don’t be surprised to see a lot more safety blitzes sprinkled in 

 

im 💯 confident with Sean and I’m excited to see our new look defense with new faces 

I’m just happy that if the defense continues to give up 30+ in playoff games, nobody can blame Leslie Frazier anymore.

 

No more guessing of who does what with this organization…this is all Czar McDermott. Hero or zero.

 

I know what I’ve got my money on.

[Chaos]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

This is, I think, your take, and I think you misunderstand or mischaracterize what McDermott is about.  

 

McDermott's philosophy is that football is the ultimate team game.   In order to win, you have to have the best team, as opposed to the best collection of individual players.   

 

In order to have the best team (and this is something the players on just about all the winning NFL and NBA teams say), the players have to care deeply about each other and play for each other.   

 

So, yes, McDermott cares about relationships, not OVER winning, but because relationships are ESSENTIAL to winning in a team sport.  

I think this is what fans would like to think.  But championships are generally won by teams with the best talent / coaching combination. Players don't even need to like each other.  

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

I think this is what fans would like to think.  But championships are generally won by teams with the best talent / coaching combination. Players don't even need to like each other.  

 

I guess what I don't understand is why there's some kind of assumption that having a coach that knows how to win at the top levels, and more importantly, one that simply doesn't make the kinds of mistakes that coaches that do win at the top levels don't make, and coaches that relate well to their players are somehow mutually exclusive, either in part or in total.  

 

Jimmy Johnson, Andy Reid, the list can go on and on here.  If the team were to dismiss McD, why is there even an assumption by some that the next coach would be rubbing the entire team wrong or otherwise not relating well to his players out of the gate.  Of course a coach needs to relate well to his players to win at the top levels.  If he doesn't have that then they call that losing the locker room.  Making the dumbest decisions in the history of the game also causes that if it happens often enough thereby prematurely ending seasons, which usually isn't a huge number of times.  

 

And as a case in point, Siranni, Shanahan, Taylor, and Reid, the four coaches in the CC games, they all seem to be well liked and have great relationships with their players.  I would guess that only a few coaches, ones that are either on the hotseat or otherwise won't last long, don't have good relationships with their teams/players.  

 

 

Edited June 17, 2023 by PBF81

[Shaw66]

5 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

I guess what I don't understand is why there's some kind of assumption that having a coach that knows how to win at the top levels, and more importantly, one that simply doesn't make the kinds of mistakes that coaches that do win at the top levels don't make, and coaches that relate well to their players are somehow mutually exclusive, either in part or in total.  

 

Jimmy Johnson, Andy Reid, the list can go on and on here.  If the team were to dismiss McD, why is there even an assumption by some that the next coach would be rubbing the entire team wrong or otherwise not relating well to his players out of the gate.  Of course a coach needs to relate well to his players to win at the top levels.  If he doesn't have that then they call that losing the locker room.  Making the dumbest decisions in the history of the game also causes that if it happens often enough thereby prematurely ending seasons, which usually isn't a huge number of times.  

 

 

I think your point here is dead on the money, except I don't know how many fans make that assumption.  

 

First, I think McDermott has the culture part down, but he clearly doesn't have the how to win the playoffs part down.  There was progress from his first playoffs to his second and then to his third, until the end of the game.  What happened last season is anyone's guess, as has been discussed here at length.  He clearly needs to keep getting better at the playoff part. 

 

If McDermott were replaced, I don't think the new guy would have to be a McDermott clone on the culture side.   He has to be good on the culture side, but his rules don't have to be McDermott's rules.  

 

Players are in it to win, not to burnish the reputations of their coaches.  They just want coaches who make sense and who win.  

 

[Chaos]

3 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I think your point here is dead on the money, except I don't know how many fans make that assumption.  

 

First, I think McDermott has the culture part down, but he clearly doesn't have the how to win the playoffs part down.  There was progress from his first playoffs to his second and then to his third, until the end of the game.  What happened last season is anyone's guess, as has been discussed here at length.  He clearly needs to keep getting better at the playoff part. 

 

If McDermott were replaced, I don't think the new guy would have to be a McDermott clone on the culture side.   He has to be good on the culture side, but his rules don't have to be McDermott's rules.  

 

Players are in it to win, not to burnish the reputations of their coaches.  They just want coaches who make sense and who win.  

 

It seems many many people think the coaching choices are limited to McDermott, Rex Ryan and Dick Jauron.   If McDermott is replaced, the next coach could do worse.  But there is no actual reason to assume that.