Gotta give Florio props, he loves to stoke the fire and he’s real good at it.

[Beck Water]

4 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

Don't underestimate Reid.  I remember thinking Philly made a huge mistake when they fired him and I certainly think there's a chance he would have won a championship there.

 

That's a really good question.  I'm not sure.  I think it comes down to "all the moving parts have to align".  See, Reid had personnel authority over the GM in Philly.  And I don't know if he was good enough at that.

 

So a bit of context, in 2008 Reid. McNabb and Philly went to the Conf championship with a record of 9-6 and lost.  It was one of McNabb's best seasons.  2009 they had drafted LeSean McCoy and were starting to figure out how to use him.  McNabb had another very good season, the Eagles improved to 11-5, and they washed out in the WC round (bad loss to the Cowboys).

 

Then, the Eagles decided to move on from McNabb and traded him to Washington.  They had drafted Kolb in the 2007 2nd, he was publicly restive, McNabb was 34.  Sell high made sense - but also didn't make sense given where the Eagles were.  So Kolb was tackled and concussed in the season opener, leaving .....30 year old Michael "I'm now kind to doggies and take them to Petsmart training classes" Vick, who remained the starter for the next 3 seasons.

 

And I don't think that version of Vick was good enough to get a team to the Superbowl, even with an offense built around McCoy and the running game.

 

There were some other puzzling moves, such as firing Sean McDermott after another WC exit in 2010 and a disappointing defensive performance and replacing him with offensive line coach Juan Castillo.  Yeah, you read that right.   One point of view was, McDermott was a scapegoat, but the defense did actually rank better under Castillo.  Still Castillo was replaced midway through a losing 2012 season and Reid was fired after the season.

It was also a time of personal tragedy for the Reids.  Their two eldest sons had been dealing with addiction since 2002.  Their eldest son Garrett went to prison for drug charges in 2007, then OD'd and died during Eagles training camp in 2012.  Britt Reid was also jailed in 2007 for drug and gun charges (menacing another driver. 

 

Anyway, I think Reid at that time had no checks and balances at all, in the building - which is why he could keep Vick as the starting QB for 4 years with his only attempt to replace him, Nick Foles in the 3rd; why he could name an OL coach as DC; etc etc.

 

So I don't know if he would have won a championship there.  He had football wounds, and they were largely self inflicted through personnel and coaching decisions.  He also had personal wounds.  The 2012 season had to have been particularly rough.

[hondo in seattle]

7 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Discerning the critical contributor between a quarterback and a coach isn't as complex as it may seem. Consider Belichick's experience - he spent half a decade as a head coach without significant success until Brady joined his team, leading him to multiple Super Bowl victories. Similarly, Reid had a coaching career spanning two separate decades, with two separate teams, before Mahomes came onboard and won him two Super Bowls. Bill Walsh's was fortunate in that his first year as a head coach was Joe Montanas first year as a player. However, Montana proved who the real winner was when he won a Super Bowl with George Seifert after Walsh retired.

 

It's the QB. It is always the QB. 

 

That's not to say that coaches are unimportant. Where the head coach comes into play is in the minutiae of decision making during critical plays and playoff games.

 

I appreciate the intelligent response, but I remain unconvinced.  I know in my own current line of work that certain 'players' flourish under some leaders but not under others.  The 'coach' matters.  I saw this in the military as well.

 

Brady won a SB post-Belichick.  Montana won a SB post-Walsh.  But here's the thing: the QB position is cerebral.  The better you understand your own scheme and the opponent's scheme - and the faster you can process the action on the field through the lens of that understanding - the more you succeed.  I think it's very likely that Belichick and Walsh helped Brady and Montana achieve their greatness.  Their coaches taught them the nuances of the game, how to prepare, how to diagnose a defense, and so on.  

 

There's a Buddhist saying: once you cross the river, you don't need the raft anymore.  Once Brady and Montana mastered their craft, they didn't need Bill or Bill anymore.  But I'm not convinced they would have attained their stratospheric heights without HC masters mentoring them when they were starting out.  

 

Mining Bills history a bit...  How successful would Jim Kelly have been with Hank Bullough as his head coach?  Or Josh Allen with Harvey Johnson?   

 

Would Dennis Shaw have enjoyed a better career if he has started out with someone like Sean Payton instead of John Rauch?  

 

 

[Einstein]

40 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 I think it's very likely that Belichick and Walsh helped Brady and Montana achieve their greatness.  Their coaches taught them the nuances of the game, how to prepare, how to diagnose a defense, and so on.  

 

Then the question becomes: Why was Andy Reid unable to teach McNabb or Smith the nuances of the game well enough to win a Super Bowl? Why was Belichick not able to teach Bledsoe or Kosar the nuances of the game well enough to win a Super Bowl?

 

It’s the QB.

 

[hondo in seattle]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Then the question becomes: Why was Andy Reid unable to teach McNabb or Smith the nuances of the game well enough to win a Super Bowl? Why was Belichick not able to teach Bledsoe or Kosar the nuances of the game well enough to win a Super Bowl?

 

It’s the QB.

 

 

It takes two to tango.

[Buffalo716]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Then the question becomes: Why was Andy Reid unable to teach McNabb or Smith the nuances of the game well enough to win a Super Bowl? Why was Belichick not able to teach Bledsoe or Kosar the nuances of the game well enough to win a Super Bowl?

 

It’s the QB.

 

Yes because Trent differ and Jeff hoestwttler are the best ever 

 

it’s never people around them lol

Mcnabb is infinitely better than both 
 

 

[Billy Claude]

8 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Then the question becomes: Why was Andy Reid unable to teach McNabb or Smith the nuances of the game well enough to win a Super Bowl? Why was Belichick not able to teach Bledsoe or Kosar the nuances of the game well enough to win a Super Bowl?

 

It’s the QB.

 

 

This is reaching the point of chariacature.  Are we not remembering that Nick Foles and a completely washed Peyton Manning have won Super Bowls?  That Jimmy Garofolo, Colin Kaepernick and Jared Goff has started recent Super Bowls? Not to mention some good but not great QBs like Eli Manning, Joe Flacco, and Matthew Stafford have all won Super Bowls recently.

 

The belief that it is all the QB is insulting to rest of the players and staff on those teams.   You often make good points but then always take it to absurd limits. Your arguments will be much more effective if don't religiously adhere to your flow chart. There has rarely been worse cases of the pot calling the kettle black.

 

 

 

On 6/15/2023 at 6:28 PM, Einstein said:

 

 

 

Edited June 21, 2023 by Billy Claude

[Einstein]

8 hours ago, Billy Claude said:

Are we not remembering that Nick Foles and a completely washed Peyton Manning have won Super Bowls? 

 

Learn more here.

 

8 hours ago, Billy Claude said:

That Jimmy Garofolo, Colin Kaepernick and Jared Goff has started recent Super Bowls? 

 

They all lost.

 

 

[Tipster19]

McDermott and Beane’s extensions should really piss off Florio, he’s already writing about it, crawfishing like a mofo! 🤣🤣🤣

[Saxum]

7 minutes ago, Tipster19 said:

McDermott and Beane’s extensions should really piss off Florio, he’s already writing about it, crawfishing like a mofo! 🤣🤣🤣

 

He will not notice it based on stains already on pants.

[JohnNord]

On 6/15/2023 at 2:55 PM, Aussie Joe said:

He loves to stroke something …not sure it’s the fire..

A sausage?

[Saxum]

On 6/20/2023 at 3:35 PM, Beck Water said:

 

That's a really good question.  I'm not sure.  I think it comes down to "all the moving parts have to align".  See, Reid had personnel authority over the GM in Philly.  And I don't know if he was good enough at that.

 

 

Reid reminds me of Beli-CHEAT - both are poor at being a GM.

[Doc Brown]

On 6/23/2023 at 5:25 PM, Tipster19 said:

McDermott and Beane’s extensions should really piss off Florio, he’s already writing about it, crawfishing like a mofo! 🤣🤣🤣

Diggs might have to get a restraining order at this point.