Is Sean McDermott our version of Doug Collins?

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

In fairness, we now have more than 1 year of playoff losses. While the QB Terry reportedly was enamored by has bounced the Bills from the playoffs twice, won 2 Super Bowls and 2 MVPs. The same QB McDermott didn't want to take at their draft spot because it "sent the wrong message" reportedly. And while I agree that the way the hierarchy at OBD at minimum places McD and Beane on even ground (if not Sean holding more power) I do believe Terry would consultant Beane for an opinion on the matter should he start thinking about making a move at HC.

 

Look, I like Sean. I don't think many coaches would have gotten 13 wins out of a team that went through as much as the Bills did last year. I have a ton of respect for the job he has done in turning this franchise from a joke to "playoff caliber" to "Championship Caliber". Despite what many claim he's done a great job I'm growing from a very conservative coach his first 2 years to a coach that will take as many or more chances than many. 

 

However at some point I also believe it's fair to question if Sean is a coach that can make a difference and get over that hump or if he's along for the ride. An early playoff exit this year and I think he enters next season firmly on the hot seat. Especially if Pegula has to witness it happen by the hand of the first player he wanted to pick.

 

 

 

I don't think Beane will have ANY and I mean ANY input into a decision on McDermott. They are joined at the hip and if Terry decides to move on he isn't asking Beane for a view.

37 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

ive seen this enough around here from good posters to take it as fact, but outta curiosity, how do we know this?

 

The heirarchy. McDermott has never and does not report to Brandon Beane. He reports direct to Terry.

[Gregg]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think Beane will have ANY and I mean ANY input into a decision on McDermott. They are joined at the hip and if Terry decides to move on he isn't asking Beane for a view.

 

The heirarchy. McDermott has never and does not report to Brandon Beane. He reports direct to Terry.

 

They both do. Terry said in an interview when both were hired that both of them report to him. 

[Eastport bills]

Let’s see how Sean handles being shot caller for his defense instead of delegating the “bend don’t break “ responsibilities to a DC like Frazier. Let’s see how he deals with Dorsey calling plays after his learning on the job rookie year that didn’t work out well. Finally, let’s see if Sean improves his game day decision making which has been up and down. All in all, this should a make or break year with the clock ticking on big personnel decisions next season.

[Reed83HOF]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

Hopefully he’s not coaching the Giants.

Dumping an HC to promote a coordinator you might lose does not often work out in the NFL.

 

Sean Payton honestly was the one who made the most sense.  Sean's seat is warm this year, another playoff meltdown will ratchet the heat up substantially from the fans, the media and I will make the jump to say some players as well. 

 

Either you think Ty Dunne went from solid reporter at the BN to now a guy who just chases clicks since he owns his own thing and no longer is trust worthy all of a sudden (I don't understand that train of thought)  or there is some smoke out there that the masses want to be blind to.

 

I'm not a homer, but I'm not a entire pessimist either. 

 

 

[The Frankish Reich]

The NBA isn't the NFL, but there's still something about what happened in the NBA playoffs this year: the two longest-tenured coaches in the league squared off in the finals. 

Continuity matters. Having a consistent plan matters. Even if the Bills fail to advance this year (and based on prior years, "advance" really means "makes the Super Bowl"), it would be a mistake to fire Beane and/or McDermott. But history suggests that would probably be the outcome, since coaches typically don't get multiple chances to make that next step forward.

[boyst]

1 minute ago, Reed83HOF said:

Dumping an HC to promote a coordinator you might lose does not often work out in the NFL.

 

Sean Payton honestly was the one who made the most sense.  Sean's seat is warm this year, another playoff meltdown will ratchet the heat up substantially from the fans, the media and I will make the jump to say some players as well. 

 

Either you think Ty Dunne went from solid reporter at the BN to now a guy who just chases clicks since he owns his own thing and no longer is trust worthy all of a sudden (I don't understand that train of thought)  or there is some smoke out there that the masses want to be blind to.

 

I'm not a homer, but I'm not a entire pessimist either. 

 

 

What'd I miss by Dunne?

[JohnBonhamRocks]

I saw “Doug Collins” and pictured Sabres anthem singer Doug Allen drinking a Tom Collins.

[gobills1212]

2 hours ago, Believer said:

It’s not all on McDermott… yet.

Beane provided him a mediocre OL… and no bruising RB to take the short yardage pressure off Allen.

 

If what we are told about McDermott’s role in the 13 second debacle is true, it will show again this season… There were more than a few confounding coaching decisions throughout last season to wonder if McDermott has the right game day stuff to bring a Super Bowl back to Buffalo.

 

Then there is Allen’s role in our failure to advance… Again, if the insider reports are true, appears the Media hype attracted the kind of attention from celebrities that distracted him from his job…

 

Much tougher division this year… Bills will have to focus and stay healthy… McDermott is on the hot seat… Beane as well.

 

The Bills canceled the last day of mandatory minicamp today… Not a good sign… Lack of player commitment to the quest.

 

Pegula and Buffalo aren’t building a new stadium expecting to lose.

 

Pegula won’t be patient much longer… Couple more years at best, my bet.

Not a good sign they canceled day 3?! That happens all the time.  This very team did it last year. This all seems very mountain/mole hill to me. Impatient fan making something from nothing. The sky is not falling, nor has it begun to. Rumors ate exactly that. Once speculation starts, things get silly

[GunnerBill]

19 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

They both do. Terry said in an interview when both were hired that both of them report to him. 

 

Yep. After he hired Beane at McDermott's say so. 

[Reed83HOF]

4 minutes ago, boyst said:

What'd I miss by Dunne?

Nothing,  I pulled up some stuff from his 13 second article in the diggs thread about how some in the organization were touring of McD back then,  he preaches accountiblity, but didn't hold himself too it.  Coaches who left wouldn't comment on their relationship with him, but would rather day it to his face, he controls all communication including what the media reports via Twitter and crap like that.  There was a comment from someone that well he was good at BN, but now that he is on his own,  he has to run his businesses.  

 

Now you have Adam Schien wondering this very topic and Mike Silver starting to join this parade...

 

 

[Matt_In_NH]

He said the wrong thing on Tuesday.  Even though he was probably being more honest than he was Wednesday.....it was the wrong way to play it.   He is not perfect but he learns from mistakes and he does a ton of things right.  I am good with him for now.

[klos63]

9 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

  I was watching some old stuff on the NBA and it kinda hit me the parallels the Bills have to the pre Phill Jackson Bulls. 
  Doug Collins their coach took over a franchise that was in disarray even after drafting one Michael Jordan two years earlier. 
  They became a consistent playoff team under Doug but couldn’t get over the hump til management decided Doug just wasn’t the guy and brought in Phill. 
  Seems like the National Media is starting to ask if you have this all world QB why haven’t you gotten farther and now it appears after today the National Media is starting to kinda zero in on Sean as the scapegoat in the Steff Diggs stuff. 
  I like Sean alot and remember the debacle he took over from Rex but have we reached the point where if they don’t win it this year do Terry and Brandon say it’s time to go in a different direction? 

This comes out of left field.  It would be franchise suicide to fire McDermott, similar to when we let Chuck Knox go.

[Einstein]

15 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

Dumping an HC to promote a coordinator you might lose does not often work out in the NFL.

 

Yeah it just wasn't going to happen.

 

I don't blame the Bills for not doing that. 

 

I just... hope it doesnt bite us.

 

15 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

Either you think Ty Dunne went from solid reporter at the BN to now a guy who just chases clicks

 

The posters who say that don't understand how Dunne gets paid. He runs no ads. Clicks do not give him any revenue. 

[JohnNord]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Brandon has ZERO power to decide to go in a different direction. How are people STILL confused about the Bills heirarchy seven years into this regime? 

 

Will Terry? It would take more than 1 more year of playoff losses.

This is why it’s laughable that people talk about Brandon Beane “firing” McDermott.  The position isn’t structured that way.  While McDermott might report to Beane on an org charge, he outranks him in terms of actual control and power in the organization.  
 

The only person with the most power in Buffalo outside of Terry/Kim is Sean McDermott.  Terry is the only person who can fire McDermott.

 

Keep in my Terry gave McD unprecedented autonomy for a rookie HC in 2017 because he was so impressed.  McD paid him back by breaking the drought in year 1, found a QB, put together a SB contending roster, and more importantly transformed the impression of the Bills who were a laughing stock.  
 

McDermott is the only coaching hire that Terry got right (Granato is a still a question mark IMO).

 

Do you honestly see him firing McDermott because they didn’t win a SB?

 

Edited June 15, 2023 by JohnNord

[Shaw66]

8 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

  I was watching some old stuff on the NBA and it kinda hit me the parallels the Bills have to the pre Phill Jackson Bulls. 
  Doug Collins their coach took over a franchise that was in disarray even after drafting one Michael Jordan two years earlier. 
  They became a consistent playoff team under Doug but couldn’t get over the hump til management decided Doug just wasn’t the guy and brought in Phill. 
  Seems like the National Media is starting to ask if you have this all world QB why haven’t you gotten farther and now it appears after today the National Media is starting to kinda zero in on Sean as the scapegoat in the Steff Diggs stuff. 
  I like Sean alot and remember the debacle he took over from Rex but have we reached the point where if they don’t win it this year do Terry and Brandon say it’s time to go in a different direction? 

Well, my answer to your question, if I answer it, is "no, McDermott is not Doug Collins."

 

But it's a really good question, and only time will tell.  The answer certainly could be "yes."  

 

Let's start with the underlying premise:  That Josh Allen could be a transcendent talent like Michael Jordan.  I don't want to get into any arguments about that comparison, because Jordan really was otherworldly and the argument could be endless; however, the premise is not off the wall.  The NFL never has seen a talent like Allen.   Vick was the only truly outstanding QB who was a better runner, and there are only a handful of guys who could throw like Allen (actually, maybe no one).  The point is that if Allen can get all of his immense talent under control, including all of the critical game management skills, he COULD be the equivalent of Michael Jordan.   I mean, if someone told you Allen could have two three-peat Lombardis, we could argue about whether it's likely, and talk about how hard it is to win and repeat in the NFL, but isn't the only response to such an outrageous prediction, "If anyone could do it, it would be Allen."

 

So, let's accept the premise.  There's little question that Phil Jackson had the key to unlocking Jordan's true greatness, and Collins didn't.  (Similarly, Steve Kerr had the Steph Curry key and Mark Jackson didn't.)   Doug Collins wasn't a bad coach, but he didn't have the key. 

 

Does  Sean McDermott have the Allen key?  Well, you can analyze and argue that one all day long, too, but if you're asking the question as part of a consideration of whether and how long the Bills should stick with McDermott, it's a point less discussion.   Think of the possible outcomes:  At the end of his career, Allen has become Jordan or he hasn't.  If he has, then his coach had the key.  The only way to find out if a coach has the key is to play it out and see if Allen becomes Jordan.  The Broncos changed coaches and Elway won Super Bowls.   Was that because one coach had the key and one didn't?   There's no way to know what Elway would have done without the coaching change.   Moreover if, as is likely, at the end of his career Allen has NOT become Jordan, then what do you conclude?  That none of the coaches Allen had had the key?  Or maybe, more likely, Allen isn't the once-in-a-lifetime transcendent player that Jordan was, and you were changing coaches trying to unlock a door that never could be opened.   In that case, maybe you fired the coach (like the Eagles firing Andy Reid) who was going to win Super Bowls for you.  

 

There just isn't any way to know.  

 

I don't think Allen is Jordan, but I think the right coach can win multiple Super Bowls with Allen.  I think McDermott is the right head coach for Allen, so long as McDermott has the right offensive coordinator.  So, as I've been saying all along, I think Dorsey is the big question mark.  

 

And, by the way, I think McDermott is the right head coach because I think we will now begin to see McDermott's real genius, his defensive genius, begin to emerge.  I think we are about to begin to see sustained, defensive excellence out of the Bills, just like the Patriots saw from Belichick.  

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

This is why it’s laughable that people talk about Brandon Beane “firing” McDermott.  The position isn’t structured that while.  While McDermott might report to Beane on an org charge, he outranks him in terms of actual control and power in the organization.  
 

The only person with the most power in Buffalo outside of Terry/Kim is Sean McDermott.  Terry is the only person why can fire McDermott.

 

Keep in my Terry gave McD unprecedented autonomy for a rookie HC in 2017 because he was so impressed.  McD paid him back by breaking the drought in year 1, found a QB, put together a SB contending roster, and more importantly transformed the impression of the Bills who were a laughing stock.  
 

McDermott is the only coaching hire that Terry got right (Granato is a still a question mark IMO).

 

Do you honestly see him firing McDermott because they didn’t win a SB?

 

 

He doesn't even report to Beane on the prg chart. They both report to Terry. 

 

And I agree with you. Terry has got one coaching decision right in multiple goes across two teams. He is gonna be loathe to pull the plug unless it is clear he has to.

[JohnNord]

6 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Yeah it just wasn't going to happen.

 

I don't blame the Bills for not doing that. 

 

I just... hope it doesnt bite us.

 

 

The posters who say that don't understand how Dunne gets paid. He runs no ads. Clicks do not give him any revenue. 

That is correct… With that being said, his job is to write articles that getting people talking and in the process drive traffic to his Substack - where a percentage will be converted to subscribers.  
 

I don’t think Ty chases clicks or embellished stories.  I do think he writes polarizing articles that he knows will fans buttons - specifically in Buffalo and Green Bay.  
 

Nothing wrong with that, but his current venture is different than covering the sport for a major news outlet 

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

He doesn't even report to Beane on the prg chart. They both report to Terry. 

 

And I agree with you. Terry has got one coaching decision right in multiple goes across two teams. He is gonna be loathe to pull the plug unless it is clear he has to.

Ah ok… I just remember when they hired Beane back in the day, I thought McDermott implied that he would report to Beane but we all knew it was BS

[Solomon Grundy]

YES!! 

[EasternOHBillsFan]

1 hour ago, What a Tuel said:

 

Who are you going to hire? You can easily wind up with a plethora of bad coaches who ended up dismantling the team. For what? McDermott isn't the playoff problem. 

 

Texans we had young Josh Allen playing hero ball. 

Chiefs we didn't have the roster

Chiefs we had the roster but we botched 13 seconds

Bengals the team was just out of it. You could just tell they were mentally fatigued. 

 

The question is absolutely 100% who are you going to hire? 

 

 

Do you not see all of the very successful hires out there like Doug Pederson, Kyle Shanahan and Sean McVay? Where did they come from, the ether?

 

If you do a proper job at vetting candidates, and with some luck, you could get a HC like one of them... to not to even try and continue to accept Marty Schottenheimer-like coaching is UNACCEPTABLE.

[Success]

Or, would Doug Collins be remembered as a 6-time champion as HC if they had just kept him on.