folz Posted June 16, 2023 Posted June 16, 2023 6 hours ago, Einstein said: There is no “yeah, but”. It’s like 2+2=10. Its just wrong. Reid accomplished farrrr more than McD. And with a worse QB. McNabb and Reid I think a lot of people are underestimating Donovan McNabb. I'm not saying he was better than Josh, but he was no slouch (or not worse enough to use that as some kind of argument). McNabb was selected #2 overall in the 1999 draft. Played 13 years, 6 Pro Bowls, was MVP and offensive player of the year in 2000; and is still currently 27th on the all-time QB passing yards list and 33rd on the all-time QB TD passes list. He also had almost 3,500 rushing yards (10th most for QBs) and 29 rushing TDs. I mean, he was good enough for a lot of people to at least debate if he deserves to be in the HOF. He won't make it in, but just saying, Reid wasn't working with some journeyman QB all those years in Philly. Reid had prime McNabb for 5 of his first 6 years. McDermott has had prime Josh for 3 of his first 6 seasons. Reid got his franchise QB year 1 rather than year 2, and McNabb was much more pro-ready than Josh was coming in. Sure, Reid made a Super Bowl appearance (not a win) and more conference championship appearances in his first 6 years than McDermott, but if you look at an overall snapshot, there are definitely some comparisons. First 6 years: Coach overall record win % Playoff record Reid 64-32 67% 7-5 McDermott 62-35 64% 4-5 13 seconds People just need to get over the 13 seconds already. The way that game was going, whoever had the ball last (in regulation or OT) was going to score. Neither defense was stopping either of those offenses all day long. Ok, so let's say we squib it. We take off what 2 seconds, but KC probably has the ball somewhere between the 20-40. So, could have been about the same or worse and not enough time elapsed to stop Mahomes from doing what he did. We could have tried to pin them deep, but KC had Tyreek back as a returner and he had already earlier gashed us with a big punt return. Say he takes it at the 10 and takes it out to the 40, only wasting a handful of seconds or brings it back all the way. Or who is to say if we did pin them on the 7 yard line, Mahomes doesn't still come up with 2-3 miraculous plays to get them in field goal range. It was as much fate/destiny as it was bad coaching. It was a heartbreaker, but y'all gotta get over it. Not to mention that coaches also learn from their mistakes and get better. Obviously, we can agree to disagree about the Cincinnati loss being understandable due to what the team had to endure last year. Sean Payton And to the other posters who taut Sean Payton, yes, he won a Super Bowl. But, he had 14 years with one of the greatest QBs of all time and only had the one Super Bowl appearance. His overall win percentage is 63% (lower than McD's). His team (with Drew Brees) missed the playoffs 6 of those 14 years. His playoffs record was 9-8 in those years, and 6 of those 8 losses were in the Wild Card or Divisional round. It's Not That Easy I don't point all of this out to put down Sean Payton or Andy Reid, they are both great coaches. Just trying to point out that winning a Super Bowl, even with an elite, or all-time QB isn't as easy as some of you posters make it out to be. Aaron Rodgers has one Super Bowl appearance (and win) in an 18-year career. Drew Brees has one Super Bowl appearance (and win) in a 20-year career. Two of the greatest of all-time, 38 years, 2 SB appearances. A ton of things need to go right to win a Super Bowl, beyond having a great QB, and if you don't win one, it doesn't mean you suck either. [I posted this in a thread a while back for those who think you can't win a SB as a HC after year 6.] "14 of 33 Super Bowl winning head coaches (42.42% of them) had not won a Super Bowl by the end of their 6th season as head coach, including: Bill Belichick, Tom Landry, Andy Reid, Tom Coughlin, Pete Carroll, Chuck Noll, Bill Cowher, Tony Dungy, Hank Stramm, Dick Vermeil, John Madden, Gary Kubiak, and Bruce Arians. 12 of those 14 took at least 8 seasons (on up to Reid's 20 years) before winning the big game." And finally, beyond talent, coaching, chemistry, etc., there is also the element of luck in football that so many don't seem to want to acknowledge for some reason (crazy circumstances, injuries, refs, bad bounces, etc.). Remember the Minnesota Miracle? The Diggs catch that probably kept New Orleans from going to and winning another Super Bowl. Is that on Sean Peyton, like so many put the 13 seconds on McD? What about all of Reid's so-called blunders in the NFC championship games early in his career? Was that Reid or luck? Maybe it was just bad luck for Reid and Peyton, but obviously bad coaching for McDermott. I don't know, there always seem to be excuses for other coaches that aren't allowed for McDermott. And according to some posters, everything McD has done is due to Josh Allen, but when it comes to Belichick, Reid, Peyton, etc. I never hear the only reason they have a good record is because they had an elite QB. You can't have it both ways. Only 3 other active coaches have a higher winning percentage than Sean (LaFleur, Belichick, and Reid). Sean (.639%) falls between Reid (.641%) and Tomlin (.638%). Sean McDermott has more than earned a couple more cracks at this thing (barring any sort of major collapse), imo. P.S. Sorry for the novel-like length, for any of you who actually read this. 😊 2 1 2 Quote
schoolhouserock Posted June 16, 2023 Posted June 16, 2023 17 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said: No? Lol. So with this roster you’re sure we can’t bring in a coach that can bring it all together and be better than the team has shown? This is a perfect thread and it’s closer to 100% yes than anything less than that. Smart money is on McD over any retread that would take his stead. The idea that anyone else could waltz in tomorrow and win the big one is, to me, pure fantasy. 1 Quote
What a Tuel Posted June 16, 2023 Posted June 16, 2023 34 minutes ago, schoolhouserock said: Smart money is on McD over any retread that would take his stead. The idea that anyone else could waltz in tomorrow and win the big one is, to me, pure fantasy. Exactly. But don't worry guys, Pegula just has to pick the "right" available HC through careful vetting. We won't waste our super bowl window with that. No not at all. Its hilarious bc a lot of these guys would clamor for Sean Payton as if he didn't just lead a decade of playoff losses with Drew freaken Brees at QB. Quote
HappyDays Posted June 16, 2023 Posted June 16, 2023 57 minutes ago, What a Tuel said: But sure blame the coach if it makes you feel better. Huh? You're the one that said we took a step forward since 2020. We actually have regressed since then. And yeah I do blame the coaching for having an awful game plan against Cincinnati. Quote
BADOLBILZ Posted June 16, 2023 Posted June 16, 2023 I don't think McDermott is a "great" HC but there is nothing wrong with his ability on the sideline that more talent around Josh Allen couldn't have resolved. I just get the feeling that he and Beane have felt that the formula is to ave difference makers all over the field on defense and a stud QB carrying a considerably less invested-in group of offensive players. Which was the formula in Philly and then in Carolina where had McD worked(people forget how the Eagles often left their McNabb offense poorly stocked) and it was also actually sorta' the formula that beat McD's defense in the SB in Carolina(Manning was lousy that year but the Broncos D was great). 1 Quote
Nextmanup Posted June 16, 2023 Posted June 16, 2023 2 hours ago, schoolhouserock said: Smart money is on McD over any retread that would take his stead. The idea that anyone else could waltz in tomorrow and win the big one is, to me, pure fantasy. Sean Payton was just available. The coach doesn't have to be a "re-tread." You have to strike while the iron is hot. God knows which really good coach will become available this upcoming offseason b/c it didn't work as planned. Look at Doug Pederson---he's not a "retread' and he's moved around, been available in recent years. 1 hour ago, What a Tuel said: Exactly. But don't worry guys, Pegula just has to pick the "right" available HC through careful vetting. We won't waste our super bowl window with that. No not at all. Its hilarious bc a lot of these guys would clamor for Sean Payton as if he didn't just lead a decade of playoff losses with Drew freaken Brees at QB. You'd rather have a decade of playoff losses with McDermott, huh? Well, to each his own, I guess. Quote
John from Riverside Posted June 16, 2023 Posted June 16, 2023 22 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Brandon has ZERO power to decide to go in a different direction. How are people STILL confused about the Bills heirarchy seven years into this regime? Will Terry? It would take more than 1 more year of playoff losses. Because the same dip *****, don’t wanna believe it? Quote
LABILLBACKER Posted June 16, 2023 Posted June 16, 2023 The bottom line is in an extremely high leverage game like an AFCC or SB, there's absolutely 0 chance McD out-schemes or out-strategizes his opposing HC. And alot of times that's the difference between a Lombardi or not. Sean dominates the culture, Process, player relations world. But as a game technician he blows. He's got the clapping part down. Quote
GunnerBill Posted June 16, 2023 Posted June 16, 2023 6 hours ago, Chaos said: Marty never had one of the top 3 QBs in his prime. I think Dan Reeves is the better comparison. Good coach, just not as good as Mike Shanahan. I see the Reeves in the playoffs analogy and why that works. But it was the turn around a tire fire point about Marty that makes that comparison valid. Denver were good before Reeves got there even pre-Elway. McDermott, like Shotty, did the heavy lifting of the rebuild at the start to turn around a culture amd build credibility. Quote
78thealltimegreat Posted June 16, 2023 Author Posted June 16, 2023 8 hours ago, McBean said: Thanks a lot for stealing my thunder. Been saying and using this analogy since the end of the KC game in January 2022. I saw some stuff on how Jerry Krause basically decided after the 89 season Doug just wasn’t going to be the guy and he needed a new mentality to take down the Pistons. Insert one Phill Jackson who brought on Tex Winter to install the triangle and the rest is history. If we are to look at the Bills through the micro-chasm that we have equal talent to the Chiefs and Bengals and player for player we kinda do. It’s obvious the blame lies with the staff for not putting the guys in the best position. There’s only so many position coaches and coordinators who can leave before we look at the coach himself. Sean is damn good football coach but is he a closer that remains to be determined as so far the results are kinda murky. 1 Quote
Buffalo716 Posted June 16, 2023 Posted June 16, 2023 5 hours ago, folz said: McNabb and Reid I think a lot of people are underestimating Donovan McNabb. I'm not saying he was better than Josh, but he was no slouch (or not worse enough to use that as some kind of argument). McNabb was selected #2 overall in the 1999 draft. Played 13 years, 6 Pro Bowls, was MVP and offensive player of the year in 2000; and is still currently 27th on the all-time QB passing yards list and 33rd on the all-time QB TD passes list. He also had almost 3,500 rushing yards (10th most for QBs) and 29 rushing TDs. I mean, he was good enough for a lot of people to at least debate if he deserves to be in the HOF. He won't make it in, but just saying, Reid wasn't working with some journeyman QB all those years in Philly. Reid had prime McNabb for 5 of his first 6 years. McDermott has had prime Josh for 3 of his first 6 seasons. Reid got his franchise QB year 1 rather than year 2, and McNabb was much more pro-ready than Josh was coming in. Sure, Reid made a Super Bowl appearance (not a win) and more conference championship appearances in his first 6 years than McDermott, but if you look at an overall snapshot, there are definitely some comparisons. First 6 years: Coach overall record win % Playoff record Reid 64-32 67% 7-5 McDermott 62-35 64% 4-5 13 seconds People just need to get over the 13 seconds already. The way that game was going, whoever had the ball last (in regulation or OT) was going to score. Neither defense was stopping either of those offenses all day long. Ok, so let's say we squib it. We take off what 2 seconds, but KC probably has the ball somewhere between the 20-40. So, could have been about the same or worse and not enough time elapsed to stop Mahomes from doing what he did. We could have tried to pin them deep, but KC had Tyreek back as a returner and he had already earlier gashed us with a big punt return. Say he takes it at the 10 and takes it out to the 40, only wasting a handful of seconds or brings it back all the way. Or who is to say if we did pin them on the 7 yard line, Mahomes doesn't still come up with 2-3 miraculous plays to get them in field goal range. It was as much fate/destiny as it was bad coaching. It was a heartbreaker, but y'all gotta get over it. Not to mention that coaches also learn from their mistakes and get better. Obviously, we can agree to disagree about the Cincinnati loss being understandable due to what the team had to endure last year. Sean Payton And to the other posters who taut Sean Payton, yes, he won a Super Bowl. But, he had 14 years with one of the greatest QBs of all time and only had the one Super Bowl appearance. His overall win percentage is 63% (lower than McD's). His team (with Drew Brees) missed the playoffs 6 of those 14 years. His playoffs record was 9-8 in those years, and 6 of those 8 losses were in the Wild Card or Divisional round. It's Not That Easy I don't point all of this out to put down Sean Payton or Andy Reid, they are both great coaches. Just trying to point out that winning a Super Bowl, even with an elite, or all-time QB isn't as easy as some of you posters make it out to be. Aaron Rodgers has one Super Bowl appearance (and win) in an 18-year career. Drew Brees has one Super Bowl appearance (and win) in a 20-year career. Two of the greatest of all-time, 38 years, 2 SB appearances. A ton of things need to go right to win a Super Bowl, beyond having a great QB, and if you don't win one, it doesn't mean you suck either. [I posted this in a thread a while back for those who think you can't win a SB as a HC after year 6.] "14 of 33 Super Bowl winning head coaches (42.42% of them) had not won a Super Bowl by the end of their 6th season as head coach, including: Bill Belichick, Tom Landry, Andy Reid, Tom Coughlin, Pete Carroll, Chuck Noll, Bill Cowher, Tony Dungy, Hank Stramm, Dick Vermeil, John Madden, Gary Kubiak, and Bruce Arians. 12 of those 14 took at least 8 seasons (on up to Reid's 20 years) before winning the big game." And finally, beyond talent, coaching, chemistry, etc., there is also the element of luck in football that so many don't seem to want to acknowledge for some reason (crazy circumstances, injuries, refs, bad bounces, etc.). Remember the Minnesota Miracle? The Diggs catch that probably kept New Orleans from going to and winning another Super Bowl. Is that on Sean Peyton, like so many put the 13 seconds on McD? What about all of Reid's so-called blunders in the NFC championship games early in his career? Was that Reid or luck? Maybe it was just bad luck for Reid and Peyton, but obviously bad coaching for McDermott. I don't know, there always seem to be excuses for other coaches that aren't allowed for McDermott. And according to some posters, everything McD has done is due to Josh Allen, but when it comes to Belichick, Reid, Peyton, etc. I never hear the only reason they have a good record is because they had an elite QB. You can't have it both ways. Only 3 other active coaches have a higher winning percentage than Sean (LaFleur, Belichick, and Reid). Sean (.639%) falls between Reid (.641%) and Tomlin (.638%). Sean McDermott has more than earned a couple more cracks at this thing (barring any sort of major collapse), imo. P.S. Sorry for the novel-like length, for any of you who actually read this. 😊 Mcnabb was a stud and absolutely SB quality Reid didn’t get it done till he had an unquestioned HoF.. Without Pat he’s still sitting without a SB Josh will get it done with McD Quote
Sierra Foothills Posted June 16, 2023 Posted June 16, 2023 Forty-four Head Coaches have coached 9 or more NFL playoff games. They are: Coach W L % Vince Lombardi 9 1 .900 Tom Flores 8 3 .727 Bill Walsh 10 4 .714 Joe Gibbs 17 7 .708 Bill Belichick 31 13 .705 Sean McVay 7 3 .700 Jimmy Johnson 9 4 .692 Chuck Knoll 16 8 .667 George Seifert 10 5 .667 George Halas 6 3 .667 Bruce Arians 6 3 .667 Kyle Shanahan 6 3 .667 Tom Coughlin 12 7 .632 Andy Reid 22 16 .579 Bill Parcells 11 8 .579 Marv Levy 11 8 .579 Bill Cowher 12 9 .571 Mike Shanahan 8 6 .571 Tom Landry 20 16 .556 Jon Gruden 5 4 .556 Dan Reeves 11 9 .550 John Harbaugh 11 9 .550 Dick Vermeil 6 5 .545 Mike Holmgren 13 11 .542 John Fox 8 7 .533 Sean Payton 9 8 .529 Don Shula 19 17 .528 Mike McCarthy 11 10 .524 Pete Carroll 11 11 .500 Mike Ditka 6 6 .500 Tony Dungy 9 10 .474 Mike Tomlin 8 9 .471 Bud Grant 10 12 .455 Jeff Fisher 5 6 .455 Sean McDermott 4 5 .444 John Robinson 4 6 .400 Chuck Knox 7 11 .389 Paul Brown 4 8 .333 Dennis Green 4 8 .333 Don Coryell 3 6 .333 Marty Schottenheimer 5 13 .278 George Allen 2 7 .222 Steve Owen 2 8 .200 Here are all the Head Coaches who have won a Super Bowl followed by the number of seasons they coached when they won their first (or only) one: Andy Reid 21 Bill Cowher 14 Tom Coughlin 12 Tony Dungy 11 Dick Vermeil 10 Pete Carroll 9 John Madden 8 Gary Kubiak 8 Bruce Arians 8 Bill Belichick 7 Don Shula 7 Tom Landry 6 Chuck Knoll 6 Mike Holmgren 5 John Harbaugh 5 Mike Shanahan 5 Sean McVay 5 Jon Gruden 5 Mike McCarthy 5 Bill Parcells 4 Jimmy Johnson 4 Sean Payton 4 Tom Flores 2 Brian Billick 2 Doug Pederson 2 Bill Walsh 3 Joe Gibbs 2 Mike Tomlin 2 Barry Switzer 2 George Seifert 1 Sean McDermott is entering his 7th season as an NFL Head Coach 1 1 Quote
Billsflyer12 Posted June 16, 2023 Posted June 16, 2023 27 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said: Forty-four Head Coaches have coached 9 or more NFL playoff games. They are: Coach W L % Vince Lombardi 9 1 .900 Tom Flores 8 3 .727 Bill Walsh 10 4 .714 Joe Gibbs 17 7 .708 Bill Belichick 31 13 .705 Sean McVay 7 3 .700 Jimmy Johnson 9 4 .692 Chuck Knoll 16 8 .667 George Seifert 10 5 .667 George Halas 6 3 .667 Bruce Arians 6 3 .667 Kyle Shanahan 6 3 .667 Tom Coughlin 12 7 .632 Andy Reid 22 16 .579 Bill Parcells 11 8 .579 Marv Levy 11 8 .579 Bill Cowher 12 9 .571 Mike Shanahan 8 6 .571 Tom Landry 20 16 .556 Jon Gruden 5 4 .556 Dan Reeves 11 9 .550 John Harbaugh 11 9 .550 Dick Vermeil 6 5 .545 Mike Holmgren 13 11 .542 John Fox 8 7 .533 Sean Payton 9 8 .529 Don Shula 19 17 .528 Mike McCarthy 11 10 .524 Pete Carroll 11 11 .500 Mike Ditka 6 6 .500 Tony Dungy 9 10 .474 Mike Tomlin 8 9 .471 Bud Grant 10 12 .455 Jeff Fisher 5 6 .455 Sean McDermott 4 5 .444 John Robinson 4 6 .400 Chuck Knox 7 11 .389 Paul Brown 4 8 .333 Dennis Green 4 8 .333 Don Coryell 3 6 .333 Marty Schottenheimer 5 13 .278 George Allen 2 7 .222 Steve Owen 2 8 .200 Here are all the Head Coaches who have won a Super Bowl followed by the number of seasons they coached when they won their first (or only) one: Andy Reid 21 Bill Cowher 14 Tom Coughlin 12 Tony Dungy 11 Dick Vermeil 10 Pete Carroll 9 John Madden 8 Gary Kubiak 8 Bruce Arians 8 Bill Belichick 7 Don Shula 7 Tom Landry 6 Chuck Knoll 6 Mike Holmgren 5 John Harbaugh 5 Mike Shanahan 5 Sean McVay 5 Jon Gruden 5 Mike McCarthy 5 Bill Parcells 4 Jimmy Johnson 4 Sean Payton 4 Tom Flores 2 Brian Billick 2 Doug Pederson 2 Bill Walsh 3 Joe Gibbs 2 Mike Tomlin 2 Barry Switzer 2 George Seifert 1 Sean McDermott is entering his 7th season as an NFL Head Coach Of the 11 coaches who won their 1st Super Bowl season 7 or later, only 2 (Cowher, Madden) did so with their 1st team as Head Coach. 2 Quote
Believer Posted June 16, 2023 Posted June 16, 2023 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said: Forty-four Head Coaches have coached 9 or more NFL playoff games. They are: Coach W L % Vince Lombardi 9 1 .900 Tom Flores 8 3 .727 Bill Walsh 10 4 .714 Joe Gibbs 17 7 .708 Bill Belichick 31 13 .705 Sean McVay 7 3 .700 Jimmy Johnson 9 4 .692 Chuck Knoll 16 8 .667 George Seifert 10 5 .667 George Halas 6 3 .667 Bruce Arians 6 3 .667 Kyle Shanahan 6 3 .667 Tom Coughlin 12 7 .632 Andy Reid 22 16 .579 Bill Parcells 11 8 .579 Marv Levy 11 8 .579 Bill Cowher 12 9 .571 Mike Shanahan 8 6 .571 Tom Landry 20 16 .556 Jon Gruden 5 4 .556 Dan Reeves 11 9 .550 John Harbaugh 11 9 .550 Dick Vermeil 6 5 .545 Mike Holmgren 13 11 .542 John Fox 8 7 .533 Sean Payton 9 8 .529 Don Shula 19 17 .528 Mike McCarthy 11 10 .524 Pete Carroll 11 11 .500 Mike Ditka 6 6 .500 Tony Dungy 9 10 .474 Mike Tomlin 8 9 .471 Bud Grant 10 12 .455 Jeff Fisher 5 6 .455 Sean McDermott 4 5 .444 John Robinson 4 6 .400 Chuck Knox 7 11 .389 Paul Brown 4 8 .333 Dennis Green 4 8 .333 Don Coryell 3 6 .333 Marty Schottenheimer 5 13 .278 George Allen 2 7 .222 Steve Owen 2 8 .200 Here are all the Head Coaches who have won a Super Bowl followed by the number of seasons they coached when they won their first (or only) one: Andy Reid 21 Bill Cowher 14 Tom Coughlin 12 Tony Dungy 11 Dick Vermeil 10 Pete Carroll 9 John Madden 8 Gary Kubiak 8 Bruce Arians 8 Bill Belichick 7 Don Shula 7 Tom Landry 6 Chuck Knoll 6 Mike Holmgren 5 John Harbaugh 5 Mike Shanahan 5 Sean McVay 5 Jon Gruden 5 Mike McCarthy 5 Bill Parcells 4 Jimmy Johnson 4 Sean Payton 4 Tom Flores 2 Brian Billick 2 Doug Pederson 2 Bill Walsh 3 Joe Gibbs 2 Mike Tomlin 2 Barry Switzer 2 George Seifert 1 Sean McDermott is entering his 7th season as an NFL Head Coach Andy Reid didn’t cancel the Chiefs 3rd Day of Mandatory Minicamp… Champions work smarter and harder… SB Coaches lead by example… Unimpressed with McD’s choices so far… in what is shaping up to be a pivotal year for the Bills. https://www.newstribune.com/news/2021/jun/18/chiefs-wrap-3-day-mandatory-minicamp/ Edited June 16, 2023 by Believer 1 Quote
schoolhouserock Posted June 16, 2023 Posted June 16, 2023 7 hours ago, Nextmanup said: Sean Payton was just available. The coach doesn't have to be a "re-tread." You have to strike while the iron is hot. God knows which really good coach will become available this upcoming offseason b/c it didn't work as planned. Look at Doug Pederson---he's not a "retread' and he's moved around, been available in recent years. I don’t believe either of your examples will end up winning a Lombardi with their new teams. Has any former Super Bowl winning coach won a championship with a new team? I can’t think of any. Retreads. Quote
Sierra Foothills Posted June 16, 2023 Posted June 16, 2023 1 hour ago, schoolhouserock said: I don’t believe either of your examples will end up winning a Lombardi with their new teams. Has any former Super Bowl winning coach won a championship with a new team? I can’t think of any. Retreads. I believe only Andy Reid, Mike Holmgren and Doug Pederson took 2 different teams to the Super Bowl. All 3 came close to winning with both teams but none of them did. 1 Quote
McBean Posted June 16, 2023 Posted June 16, 2023 8 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said: I saw some stuff on how Jerry Krause basically decided after the 89 season Doug just wasn’t going to be the guy and he needed a new mentality to take down the Pistons. Insert one Phill Jackson who brought on Tex Winter to install the triangle and the rest is history. If we are to look at the Bills through the micro-chasm that we have equal talent to the Chiefs and Bengals and player for player we kinda do. It’s obvious the blame lies with the staff for not putting the guys in the best position. There’s only so many position coaches and coordinators who can leave before we look at the coach himself. Sean is damn good football coach but is he a closer that remains to be determined as so far the results are kinda murky. I’d cry tears of joy if we fired McDermott today. Anybody thinking this clown is leading us to a Lombardi is delusional. Not to mention he’s holding Josh back. Allen is the reason McDermott has won. The right offensive HC at the helm could lead us to multiple super bowls with Allen. We are truly wasting the best QB to ever put on a Bills uniform. Sad! Quote
fan_in_tx Posted June 16, 2023 Posted June 16, 2023 Mark Jackson I think is a better analogy .. With his faith, personal beliefs and ability to lead men. Quote
Royale with Cheese Posted June 16, 2023 Posted June 16, 2023 18 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: To your point in the Carolina SB loss to Denver, the Panthers offensive line was questionable and their wide outs were mostly JAGs. It was ALL Cam Newton with a very good defense…..Sound familiar? Makes sense it’s their formula. It’s how they were taught….and their McD is defense oriented guy. They built the offense just like the Ravens built it for Jackson. A good tight end with a good run blocking line because your QB is a much better runner than thrower from the pocket. Cam Newton that year was 16th in pass attempts because that was his weakness. Since he can't move like he used to, we see what he is without elite legs. He's terrible. That year wasn't all Newton and the offensive line was questionable? Greg Olsen was an All Pro. They had 3 starting offensive lineman that were either multiple All Pro's or Pro Bowl. Ryan Khalil the starting center was one of the best in the league and was an All Pro more than once. Andrew Norwell was Trai Turner was a 5 time Pro Bowler and a starting guard. He signed a large extension with them. Andrew Norwell after the Super Bowl signed the largest contract ever at the time to an NFL guard. Daryl Williams was their starting RT. He was decent when he was younger. Where are you getting questionable offensive line from? Quote
GoBills808 Posted June 16, 2023 Posted June 16, 2023 17 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: They built the offense just like the Ravens built it for Jackson. A good tight end with a good run blocking line because your QB is a much better runner than thrower from the pocket. Cam Newton that year was 16th in pass attempts because that was his weakness. Since he can't move like he used to, we see what he is without elite legs. He's terrible. That year wasn't all Newton and the offensive line was questionable? Greg Olsen was an All Pro. They had 3 starting offensive lineman that were either multiple All Pro's or Pro Bowl. Ryan Khalil the starting center was one of the best in the league and was an All Pro more than once. Andrew Norwell was Trai Turner was a 5 time Pro Bowler and a starting guard. He signed a large extension with them. Andrew Norwell after the Super Bowl signed the largest contract ever at the time to an NFL guard. Daryl Williams was their starting RT. He was decent when he was younger. Where are you getting questionable offensive line from? I watched these Panthers teams a lot Their line was not great in pass pro at all Newton was low in pass attempts because he didn't have wideouts. It was all on Cam. 1 Quote
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