Help me understand the Ken Dorsey hate

[AuntieEm]

11 minutes ago, Augie said:

I think much of the hate is a misguided attempt to stand up for the rights of tablets everywhere. Relax, there are more where that came from.  😋

 

IMO the stats of where our offense ranked (pretty darn well in general) did not match up with how I felt watching them. Yep, they moved the ball and scored a bunch of points, but they were frustrating to watch at times. Somehow, we did pretty well despite my frequent screaming at the TV.  🤷‍♂️

 

I’ll keep it simple and just hope we have a consistent running game this year, while involving Josh in it less until the playoffs. I also hope that Josh’s elbow was in fact related to his forcing the ball deep. I’m a bit skeptical. Was that physical? Was it the game plan? Or was he just unwilling to check down

 

   No he checked down before he got hurt and our offense was  doing well.  That's the bonus of having Allen as our QB, he can if need be put the team on his back.  We just got to have a team that doesn't need a piggy back ride at least not until the SB  if it is needed at all.

 

 

11 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I want everyone on the same page across the board. That is true for the QB and OC, as well as the GM and the coaches in selecting who we would target as players. It seemed odd that we would get guys, but then not use them the way we expected.

 

After typing all that, I still like our current roster and have high hoped going forward. In fact, I’m glad we are not getting all the hype we got last year. Go ahead and doubt the Bills, it will be that much better when they run deep in the playoffs!  

 

   Yea I even welcome all those that are screaming Diggs is a potential problem. Let everyone else think there's discontent here and some issues that are keeping the Bills in disarray.   I prefer that than all the hype they got after the 13 secs game.  

[billsfan89]

The Bills had a poorly constructed offensive line that also lacked depth and the team didn’t have a consistent second option in the passing game so the offense at times struggled in the redzone. 
 

Dorsey being a rookie play caller took a lot of the heat for that right or wrong. Hopefully with better guard play and depth along with Kincaid the offense is more consistent 

[Shanahan's Horseshoe]

16 minutes ago, FireChans said:

OL drafted by McDermott/Beane:

 

Dawkins - 2nd

Teller - 5th

Ford - 2nd

Brown - 3rd

Doyle - 5th

Anderson - 7th

Tenuta - 6th

Torence - 2nd

Broeker - 7th

 

You can pretend "Beane thinks the offensive line isn’t worth investing and developing through the draft," but you'd continue to be wrong lmao.

He didn’t draft Dawkins, Whaley did. He traded Teller after a single year so exactly how is that development? And this thread is about last year before Torrence fell In heir lap. So now that we’ve adjusted for reality, that leaves exactly one of his OL picks who cracked the 2 deep last year. 1 in 4 drafts and he’s one of the worst in The league the last two years.  lmao

Edited June 14, 2023 by Shanahan's Horseshoe

[msw2112]

The Bills offense last season put up good stats, scored a lot of points and was largely effective (outside of the Bengals playoff game and loss at the Jests).  That said, even when the team was winning games, the offense just seemed be out of synch.  There was no rythm to it like it had in the previous couple of seasons.  Points were scored and games were won (14 of them, including playoffs), but things were disjointed.  Was it Dorsey's inexperience as an OC?  A new OL coach?  Poor talent on the OL?  Allen's injuries?  Maybe a combination of all of these things?  I don't know the answer, but I hope that whatever it was, they can move past it this season.

 

The additions on the OL, and at TE, WR, and RB should help, as well as Dorsey's having a full season under his belt and an opportunity to reflect back on what worked and what didn't last season.  I'd like to see more "moving the chains" football - slants, screens, handoffs to RBs, etc. - with the occasional deep shot.  An effective short game should pull safeties in and loosen things up down the field.  Play action stops being effective if the ball is never handed off, but if there's a legitiate RB running game, it can be highly effective in freezing the linebackers and helping receivers get open down the field.  I believe that the additions that were made to the offense will allow the Bills to effectively opreate this way, so it's up to Dorsey to work it into the game plans and stay committed to it.

[mabden]

12 hours ago, QCity said:

His offense really doesn't seem to have an identity past "let Josh run around in the backfield like a maniac and wait for him to do something amazing 

 

I guess you can blame the offensive line for some of the issues 

 

You can blame a lot of offensive "issues" on the OL.

 

The Bills led the league in rushing yards per game last season and it wasn't all Allen.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

35 minutes ago, Augie said:

I think much of the hate is a misguided attempt to stand up for the rights of tablets everywhere. Relax, there are more where that came from.  😋

Wait until you see what AppleCare costs next time you're buying it.  All because Dorsey throws tantrums. 🤨

*
😁

[Jerome007]

I'm sure that like many I do not "hate" Dorsey, and actually thought he started the year real well. But he did become predictable, many opponents said so, and we "felt" it. All other top teams had plays that were successful BECAUSE of the design and timing of the use. To be fair, there were some towards the end, some of the good Beasley plays come to mind. Beasley delivered, but the designs made a few of them happen, and yes, it should happen from time time to time.

 

It's just weird that there were so fewer of these well designed plays the second half of the season.  The Bills have so many weapons on offense that they should confuse opposing defenses, as they can and should make them fear every part of the field. Last year the OL was suspect but so was the Bengals and they adjusted. While this year the OL could be the biggest improvement on offense, it's the OC's job to cover the weaknesses and maximise the strengths, adjust for the personal and injuries. 

I hope we all can love Dorsey this year ha ha. Let's just say he has so many weapons that he has to be both excited and feel the pressure to deliver.

[Albany,n.y.]

12 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I should add that there is an offensive coach I was disappointed with and it wasn’t Dorsey. Aaron Kromer was a disappointment last year. I felt the OL took steps backwards.

Saffold ruined everything.  

[BarleyNY]

3 hours ago, Einstein's Dog said:

No, I didn't say there was nothing to criticize.  What I was saying was the "blame" is not there to non-Bills fans. 

 

Furthermore, I was saying that your characterization of his hiring as a "mistake" by higher level, looks like a biased attempt to blame McD/Beane for something that hasn't happened yet.  Not only has it not happened, but the plan is right on schedule.

 

That is not what I said and I have no idea how that was your takeaway from my posts. I said that many posters refuse to criticize McDermott, Beane and Allen. Thus, Dorsey and others get the focus of the blame when things go wrong. I specifically said that while Dorsey did a good job for a rookie OC, the Bills situation called for a more seasoned OC. 

[Mikie2times]

Allen is a very aggressive QB. If you look at when he really shined with Daboll, it's when we started dialing up a lot of underneath throws and check downs to the RB's. It gave the offense rhythm. It also opened up more of those aggressive downfield throws naturally. The 2021 playoff run was a perfect example of this. 

 

We basically gave Dorsey a Corvette and he wanted to add more horsepower when he couldn't drive it as is. It doesn't need to be faster. We don't need to build the most aggressive offense in football with Josh Allen. Josh will already make it that by himself. He is plenty fast, doesn't need any more horsepower. 

 

The million dollar question is how much of it was not having a solid version of Beasley underneath? But my issue with that logic is we also failed to utilize Knox and the RB's in the passing game. So then it becomes, was it Allen's elbow? I don't know about that. 

 

All I know is the vertical passing game played into all of our weaknesses with the offensive line and a QB who will make a mistake if you let him just rip it all game. 

 

I guess we will see this year if Dorsey can keep the car on the road. 

[klos63]

Watch the first half of the season, then the 2nd half and see if Dorsey adjusted his play calling to adapt to the defensive game plans we were facing. To me, he wasn't quick to adjust to how defenses played us , mostly in the 2nd half of the season. 

 

Zero creativity in the red zone was a big issue for me.

[Nextmanup]

1 minute ago, klos63 said:

Watch the first half of the season, then the 2nd half and see if Dorsey adjusted his play calling to adapt to the defensive game plans we were facing. To me, he wasn't quick to adjust to how defenses played us , mostly in the 2nd half of the season. 

 

Zero creativity in the red zone was a big issue for me.

There were the quotes from opposing defenders saying we did everything they saw on film and prepared for during the week.  That's not good.

 

I feel we were extremely vanilla and repetitive.

 

 

[Dr. Who]

2 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

There were the quotes from opposing defenders saying we did everything they saw on film and prepared for during the week.  That's not good.

 

I feel we were extremely vanilla and repetitive.

 

 

Dorsey seemed unable to make use of Hines and Cook who are dangerous receivers out of the backfield. We've added Kincaid who is a red zone threat. Prior to last year, Allen was terrific in the RZ and avoided turnovers. Last year, it was a nightmare. I'm not Einstein, so I can't tell you if that should directly correlate to play calling, but I rather suspect it does.

[klos63]

6 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

There were the quotes from opposing defenders saying we did everything they saw on film and prepared for during the week.  That's not good.

 

I feel we were extremely vanilla and repetitive.

 

 

sometimes it seemed like backyard football. Go deep and I'll try to hit you. Or just count on Allen to bail us out all the time.

[Peter]

The Dorsey hate is ridiculous.

 

Buffalo Bills 2021 Offense (Daboll)

 

Buffalo Bills 2022 Offense (Dorsey)

 

 

[Mister Defense]

It seemed as if Dorsey had very little clue on how to successfully blend the running game with the passing game.  Greg Cosell, one of the most knowledgeable people on the NFL game, said that there was a lack of "synchronicity"  between the passing and running game, that they did not support each other. That is very significant criticism!  And I agree completely with that, as the running game seemed almost always to just be an afterthought, something he aught to do some time, rather than an integral part of the game. 

 

BUT the Bills could run the ball very well!  So, that's makes it even more unacceptable, as it was clear his lack of focus on the running game was not because the Bills showed they could not run the ball well.  Their starter, Singletary, averaged 4.6 yards a carry and Cook, 5.7.

 

That lack of a running game is unacceptable for an NFL coordinator, or a college coordinator, and put huge pressure on Allen to do it all himself.  We should thank our lucky stars he was not seriously injured playing in such a one dimensional offense, where he was the also the featured back.

 

Add to this the fact that the short passing and middle of the field passing game were horrible last year.  This part of the game is what had enabled Allen to become the quarterback he has become--and it was all but gone last year. 

 

Dorsey's perplexing offense put extreme pressure on Allen, now operating an offense without a viable running game and without a viable short passing game.  It wasn't Josh Allen who took a step back last year from the extraordinary quarterback we saw in the 2022 playoffs, but his offensive coordinator. Dorsey eliminated two vital dimensions of the offense, of any good NFL offense, and put all of the pressure on Allen, to do it without two vital parts of an NFL offense. 

 

If Dorsey shows the same tendencies this year the Bills will be an also ran again this year. Yes, they may have a very good record again, but their one dimensional offense will leave the high level coaches and defensive coordinators licking their chops again in December--and January.  If so, I believe Dorsey will be fired before Thanksgiving. Or should be. To me, Dorsey was the main reason the Bills got lambasted by Cinci, almost lost to the Dolphins, and did not make it to the Super Bowl. The only reason the Bills got as far as they did is because of their superstar quarterback.

 

Allen may be the most talented NFL quarterback of all time, but you cannot eliminate key components of the offense and expect him to lead the Bills to a championship.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 14, 2023 by Mister Defense

[FireChans]

2 hours ago, Shanahan's Horseshoe said:

He didn’t draft Dawkins, Whaley did. He traded Teller after a single year so exactly how is that development? And this thread is about last year before Torrence fell In heir lap. So now that we’ve adjusted for reality, that leaves exactly one of his OL picks who cracked the 2 deep last year. 1 in 4 drafts and he’s one of the worst in The league the last two years.  lmao

He drafted them.  You can say he doesn't do a great job at getting good OL players in the draft, which would be fair. To say he has ignored them in the draft is just nonsense.  

[NoSaint]

15 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I like to think I understand the game and understand what I’m seeing on offense. I’ve disliked many OC’s the Bills have hired. When fans hated Daboll here I defended him because I liked what he was trying to. I don’t see many differences between Daboll and Dorsey’s schemes. There’s different personnel on the field, mainly Beasley out and McKenzie in. Very different WRs.

 

I look at redzone offense a lot as well. They were terrible in the middle of the season falling to 23rd in November but improved dramatically and ended up 9th overall.

 

So I ask you to please explain what makes Dorsey a bad OC? I didn’t like all the deep shots but it was later said that Allen’s elbow felt less discomfort throwing deep. 

feels like you said you understand what you are seeing but didn’t actually breakdown anything you thought he did well beyond a ranking improving. 
 

what do you think he excelled at schematically? 

[Livinginthepast]

I dont hate Dorsey, His offense was just formula and boring. Daboll was better because he demanded more innovative plays and threw in some trickery. Hating on Dorsey is like hating on Vanilla ice cream. I just hope that he gets bolder this season.

[Kornfed]

As I recall, after the first two games last year, there were posters on here who were certain that Dorsey would be a head coach somewhere next (this) year. ..... Amazing to me that we have become so jaded as a fan base. I'm guessing it's mostly younger fans but that doesn't really matter. But as an older guy it's a trip to observe! .... The previous poster talked about Greg Cosell's opinion. Cosell is (IMO) incredibly knowledgeable. He's also right in his take. I'm just hoping that Dorsey grows and improves in his second season.!!!! This is essential as Beane has put together what looks like a much-improved roster. Time will tell. They just need a little luck regarding the unforeseen injuries, weather, timing and such. ..... No matter how good you are, ya still need some good fortune.