Help me understand the Ken Dorsey hate

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I like to think I understand the game and understand what I’m seeing on offense. I’ve disliked many OC’s the Bills have hired. When fans hated Daboll here I defended him because I liked what he was trying to. I don’t see many differences between Daboll and Dorsey’s schemes. There’s different personnel on the field, mainly Beasley out and McKenzie in. Very different WRs.

 

I look at redzone offense a lot as well. They were terrible in the middle of the season falling to 23rd in November but improved dramatically and ended up 9th overall.

 

So I ask you to please explain what makes Dorsey a bad OC? I didn’t like all the deep shots but it was later said that Allen’s elbow felt less discomfort throwing deep. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I should add that there is an offensive coach I was disappointed with and it wasn’t Dorsey. Aaron Kromer was a disappointment last year. I felt the OL took steps backwards.

[QCity]

His offense really doesn't seem to have an identity past "let Josh run around in the backfield like a maniac and wait for him to do something amazing."

 

He hasn't generated any type of running game (outside of our QB of course). We drafted him a shifty RB in the 2nd round with great hands but he doesn't seem to be able to scheme a RB screen game to take pressure off Josh. We doubled down and got him a proven pass-catching RB in Hines, but he quickly got relegated to special teams which is nice, but certainly not the reason we traded for him. When other teams start bracketing Diggs the offense starts to looks pedestrian and again reverts into "Josh has to do everything" mode.

 

I guess you can blame the offensive line for some of the issues but the takes of "it's just his 1st year!" are complete homer nonsense. If he just arrived in town last year that might hold some water, but he's been here since 2019 under Daboll's wing.

 

My contention is that if you gave Dorsey an OC job with anything less than a top-5 QB he would be fired within 2 years.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

We will know a lot more after this year. We don't know the play calls and what Allen should be doing in every given play. But we could all tell from starting with the second half of the Green Bay game to the end of the season the offense just never seemed in sync or smooth. Whatever you want to call it, something didn't feel right. But yet as you pointed out statistically the numbers were fine. 

It just felt that yards were hard to come by and scheming guys open for easy completions was absent. As you pointed out there were too many deep shots when they needed more move the chains underneath throws.  Yet they started well. So was that teams figuring out Dorsey, was that the elbow, was that bad o-line play? Probably all of the above.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Just now, QCity said:

His offense really doesn't seem to have an identity past "let Josh run around in the backfield like a maniac and wait for him to do something amazing."

 

He hasn't generated any type of running game (outside of our QB of course). We drafted him a shifty RB in the 2nd round with great hands but he doesn't seem to be able to scheme a RB screen game to take pressure off Josh. We doubled down and got him a proven pass-catching RB in Hines, but he quickly got relegated to special teams which is nice, but certainly not the reason we traded for him. When other teams start bracketing Diggs the offense starts to looks pedestrian and again reverts into "Josh has to do everything" mode.

 

I guess you can blame the offensive line for some of the issues but the takes of "it's just his 1st year!" are complete homer nonsense. If he just arrived in town last year that might hold some water, but he's been here since 2019 under Daboll's wing.

 

My contention is that if you gave Dorsey an OC job with anything less than a top-5 QB he would be fired within 2 years.

Use of RBs was also a Daboll complaint. 
 

I dont see anything new. The Dorsey complaints are the Daboll complaints. The huge difference was redzone offense where Daboll was great drawing up plays. But this improved as the season went on so my complaint went away.

[Xwnyer]

My main issue with the offense is route running.  Who designs a play where three receivers are running routes all in same vicinity of each other.   We used very little presnap motion, rarely ran the jet sweep, no idea how to get rbs involved in offense catching ball or running.  

[Matt_In_NH]

The key to understanding is high and maybe unreasonable expectations.   At this point it is Super Bowl or bust.  Anything less will result in criticism directed to coaches and some players.   The bills were first in third down conversion percentage.  Near the top in yards and points.  But down the stretch it “looked too hard” and there is no “imagination”. Is what I hear.  Dabol was equally criticized Fido g his time here until his last game in KC.  People seem to not remember that and now think he was the second coming.  

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Abuses valuable electronics? 🤔

[Buffalo_Stampede]

9 minutes ago, Xwnyer said:

My main issue with the offense is route running.  Who designs a play where three receivers are running routes all in same vicinity of each other.   We used very little presnap motion, rarely ran the jet sweep, no idea how to get rbs involved in offense catching ball or running.  

The first part for whatever plays you’re thinking of is likely a WR failure not a design failure. 
 

Im pretty sure motion rates were pretty equal between Dorsey and Daboll. Right about 14%. But I only saw one stat on that so it could be wrong.

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, QCity said:

His offense really doesn't seem to have an identity past "let Josh run around in the backfield like a maniac and wait for him to do something amazing."

 

He hasn't generated any type of running game (outside of our QB of course). We drafted him a shifty RB in the 2nd round with great hands but he doesn't seem to be able to scheme a RB screen game to take pressure off Josh. We doubled down and got him a proven pass-catching RB in Hines, but he quickly got relegated to special teams which is nice, but certainly not the reason we traded for him. When other teams start bracketing Diggs the offense starts to looks pedestrian and again reverts into "Josh has to do everything" mode.

 

I guess you can blame the offensive line for some of the issues but the takes of "it's just his 1st year!" are complete homer nonsense. If he just arrived in town last year that might hold some water, but he's been here since 2019 under Daboll's wing.

 

My contention is that if you gave Dorsey an OC job with anything less than a top-5 QB he would be fired within 2 years.

I'd add in his offense with very elementary. He never really had a long term plan. One play was never used to set up another play down the road. 

 

He would abandon the run game from game to game or even half to half. 

 

Seemed like the offense lacked an identity, rhythm, and cohesiveness. 

 

It was clear his inexperience hurt the team. Lou A the Cinci D coordinator ate Dorsey up for lunch. 

 

Dorsey led Bills offense was statistically good because of Allen. Dorsey had little to do with putting the Bills in the best position to win. 

[Shanahan's Horseshoe]

The simple answer is that fans need someone to blame.  It’s not Dorsey’s fault that:

-Beane thinks the offensive line isn’t worth investing and developing through the draft.

-Beane thought McKenzie or Crowder could replace Beasley

-Beane Can’t draft RB’s

-Josh refuses to play within the offense (which is good and sometimes really bad)

-Josh’s injury hampered the WR screen/quick game

-Davis caught 50% of his targets

Despite all of that the Bills ranked #2 in yards and points. 

We’ll see what Dorsey is made of this year because we’ve upgraded everywhere.  Last year had very little to do with Dorsey.  It’s the NFL, you can’t just scheme players open every play. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

I don't have anything against Dorsey. I think he did a fine job as a ROOKIE play caller. And that's also my issue. It's not with him as much as it is that I believe he was the wrong hire.

 

I much rather would have had them at the very least interview some guys with more experience. Instead we got a basic dog and pony show where they interviewed a couple other just as inexperienced guys before handing the job to Ken. It's like they didn't even try because that was who Allen wanted. 

 

But a team in that Super Bowl window isn't the place for a guy to do OJT as a coordinator. That's why there are teams like the Texans and Colts. Get experience in a lower expectation environment.

 

All that said I do believe Dorsey was handicapped a bit due to IOL play and the lack of a true TE2. Those have been addressed. I think he can improve his play calls. I would like to see him able to scheme guys open a bit. I would like to see him a bit more creative with routes. And he needs to adjust his gameplan with weather in mind a bit more.

[BillsFan2313]

No

[That's No Moon]

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I should add that there is an offensive coach I was disappointed with and it wasn’t Dorsey. Aaron Kromer was a disappointment last year. I felt the OL took steps backwards.

Beach chairs would have put up more resistance than his guy Saffold.

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

No hate here, and for a first year OC, it’s understandable that he would have room to improve. My issue always was that for a team that was/is squarely in its championship window, was the hiring of a rookie OC the best path forward?

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Something like: "I can't put my finger on it, but something didn't feel the same last year" 

[Fixxxer]

Dorsey could learn some patience. He throws too many haymakers but too little jabs. It's great that we can score in one play but there were times where we tried to win games in one play and that throws the rhythm off on offense. 

[billsbackto81]

3 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I should add that there is an offensive coach I was disappointed with and it wasn’t Dorsey. Aaron Kromer was a disappointment last year. I felt the OL took steps backwards.

Sometimes a mechanic needs the proper tools. Outside of Dawkins and Morse there wasn't much in the toolbox.

 

Hopefully this year's add ons like McGovern, Torrence and Edwards will bear some fruit.

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

I don't have anything against Dorsey. I think he did a fine job as a ROOKIE play caller. And that's also my issue. It's not with him as much as it is that I believe he was the wrong hire.

 

I much rather would have had them at the very least interview some guys with more experience. Instead we got a basic dog and pony show where they interviewed a couple other just as inexperienced guys before handing the job to Ken. It's like they didn't even try because that was who Allen wanted. 

 

But a team in that Super Bowl window isn't the place for a guy to do OJT as a coordinator. That's why there are teams like the Texans and Colts. Get experience in a lower expectation environment.

 

All that said I do believe Dorsey was handicapped a bit due to IOL play and the lack of a true TE2. Those have been addressed. I think he can improve his play calls. I would like to see him able to scheme guys open a bit. I would like to see him a bit more creative with routes. And he needs to adjust his gameplan with weather in mind a bit more.

 

I’ll add that the blame for hiring a rookie OC lands at the feet of two of the three people that most TBD posters refuse to criticize. So it’s easier to just blame Dorsey rather than consider that mistakes are being made at a higher level.

 

As for Dorsey, he probably has a bright future. He’s not there yet, but he did not do poorly for a rookie OC. I do question the relationship with Allen though. Mainly it is whether it allows for him to effectively coach Allen hard when needed. I should note that I see this issue with McDermott as well. He hasn’t reined in Allen when warranted either so why would Dorsey feel like he could do it?

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I like to think I understand the game and understand what I’m seeing on offense. I’ve disliked many OC’s the Bills have hired. When fans hated Daboll here I defended him because I liked what he was trying to. I don’t see many differences between Daboll and Dorsey’s schemes. There’s different personnel on the field, mainly Beasley out and McKenzie in. Very different WRs.

 

I look at redzone offense a lot as well. They were terrible in the middle of the season falling to 23rd in November but improved dramatically and ended up 9th overall.

 

So I ask you to please explain what makes Dorsey a bad OC? I didn’t like all the deep shots but it was later said that Allen’s elbow felt less discomfort throwing deep. 

 

There's absolutely no reason this Offense should fall to 23rd and then struggle to finish 9th.