Diggs NOT at mandatory minicamp, McDermott "very concerned" DAY 2 UPDATE: He's back

[uticaclub]

20 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

I don't know why this is parroted as gospel all the time. It maybe works if you are competing for the Monsignor Martin League Championship, but it basically stops there. 

Diggs behavior is something teams trying to win a World Championship generally try and keep out of their locker room, not something they embrace. Eventually that sort of attitude starts to weigh heavier on the team than his physical gifts. It happens all the time across all sorts of professional and Olympic sports. 

Being correct isn't, and has never ever been, a viable excuse for being a bad teammate. 

Is he being a bad teammate or is he the only one saying what everyone else is thinking? Neither one of us know for sure and this will be a topic of debate until we beat the ***** of the Jets week 1 and will pick back up when we get outcoached in the playoffs.

[billieve420]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

No not at all, Diggs was most likely not even in touch with Beane or the team about this at all.  The restructure is built into their contract, and they know they are coming and its the GM who will be doing it.  Bills entered the offseason over the cap, everyone knew restructures were happening before we even pursued anyone.  

 

No disrespect, I know you are just trying to find ways to understand something we don't know the whole story on, but the odds of this are at 0%.  I can assure you the players do not have any say in this and are not consulted.  Fans tend to think players have all this insight, knowledge, input, influence, etc when it comes to GM decisions, who they target in FA or draft, etc.  It is just not the case at all, GM's do not discuss these matters with them.

 

That doesn't stop players from wanting or even trying to recruit players when they know they are available, but this idea that Diggs was told what the cap space was going to be used for and then upset when it didn't happen is just not based on how things actually happen or work.

 

 

See my post above

 

Allen has alluded to the fact that he is in fact in contact with the front office and they had given him updates on player personnel moves. I could see that being the case with Diggs as well. Whether Diggs had personal conversations with Beane about getting additional playmaker or Hopkins specifically and felt he was misled or ignored who knows what happened there. Bills did make moves on the offensive side of the ball so I don't agree if that is the case.

 

Tim Graham also reported whatever the issue was didn't have to do with Dorsey so my initial guess would have been the play calling but now personnel moves doesn't seem so far fetched. That or something related to the WR coach Chad Hall who ended up with the Jaguars. When Allen said it wasn't a football issue in his press conference leads me to believe now it wasn't an X's and O's thing or a target related issue. Either issue was between Diggs and Allen or Diggs and McDermott/Beane.

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, uticaclub said:

While I'm not saying it's what happened but the chance is higher than 0. Diggs is a team captain, you don't think he made his desires known, the front office gave him some lip service and now he is pissed and feels disrespected. 

 

That is not the same thing though.  Sure Diggs, or any player, can say what he wants to say to whoever he wants to say it to.  But that isn't the narrative we were just discussing where it was being suggested here in this thread that Diggs was upset because Diggs agreed to have his contract restructured (factually incorrect as the restructures are already built in and the GM does not need to consult with said player to execute or need their blessing) for the purpose of signing DHop to which they say is now why he is upset.  

 

So sure, any player can tell a GM anything they want, nothing stopping that.  But no GM is asking a players permission to restructure a contract, let alone on a promise to sign some other player we may not even sign.

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

That is not the same thing though.  Sure Diggs, or any player, can say what he wants to say to whoever he wants to say it to.  But that isn't the narrative we were just discussing where it was being suggested here in this thread that Diggs was upset because Diggs agreed to have his contract restructured (factually incorrect as the restructures are already built in and the GM does not need to consult with said player to execute or need their blessing) for the purpose of signing DHop to which they say is now why he is upset.  

 

So sure, any player can tell a GM anything they want, nothing stopping that.  But no GM is asking a players permission to restructure a contract, let alone on a promise to sign some other player we may not even sign.

 

I spoke to someone earlier today who has a decent track record of being reliable who said Diggs's issue is absolutely playcalling. Felt like he was used as a decoy too often 2nd half of last season. Was open and still the ball didn't go to him. 

[GunnerBill]

8 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Can’t blame him for that… using Diggs as a decoy to force the ball to someone who catches it at a 50% clip w/ bad ankles in Davis? 

 

It might be bollocks it isn't an insider it is another UK based Bills fan but his info has been decent before. 

[JoeF]

This might be a poll question...How many of you are frustrated with your role in the Bills offense?  From reading these threads ..there is a lot of that on this board.

[Mango]

36 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I spoke to someone earlier today who has a decent track record of being reliable who said Diggs's issue is absolutely playcalling. Felt like he was used as a decoy too often 2nd half of last season. Was open and still the ball didn't go to him. 

 

First Half of the Season: 60/83, 857 yards, 7 TD's (3 TD vs TEN)

 

Second Half of the Season: 48/71, 572 yards, 4 TD's

 

Extrapolating both to full seasons, one is a top 10 season the other is top 3, and that is without adjusting for a 17th game. The Bills went 7-1 and averaged 29.75 points per game during the stretch Diggs hated so much. One more win and 1.5 more ppg than the first 8 games. 

I keep hearing that he wanted, or needed the ball more, but honestly, Diggs was 1 or two total passes thrown in his general direction  from having the same amount of attention from his QB. He was only down about 1.5 targets per game from the first 8 games to the last 8 games. Is the baseline 11 targets per game? He only average 10 for the first 8 weeks. 11 per game is a top 10 targeted season. Even then most of those top 10 seasons are great players like Calvin Johnson on bad offenses. History cannot be the realistic baseline. 

I always want to know what is the quantifiable solution? No just "more" or "Diggs has to be involved". But an actual metric. That goes for Diggs himself. How many more targets can we realistically push in his direction? Are 1-2 targets per game moving the needle from nearly 30 points per game? 

 

 

 

Edited June 20, 2023 by Mango

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

No it doesn't. The entire synopsis is that when Diggs doesn't get what he wants he causes a scene like a toddler. This isn't how good teammates behave. It just isn't. 

 

Stop being obtuse.  This isn't a 40-hour per week email job where expectations are low already.  Nor is it an arena that everyone should sing kum-ba-ya now that last season is over and just hop on the 2023 Process train.  WR's do diva-esque things occasionally, but until we know for sure what happened, this is normie posturing. 

 

Stefon isn't a choir boy by any means...but it's so TBD for people to attack the player first and not question the events which led to the situation.  3 seasons of no issues until that playoff game and it's all on him?  Yeah. 

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

First Half of the Season: 60/83, 857 yards, 7 TD's (3 TD vs TEN)

 

Second Half of the Season: 48/71, 572 yards, 4 TD's

 

Extrapolating both to full seasons, one is a top 10 season the other is top 3, and that is without adjusting for a 17th game. The Bills went 7-1 and averaged 29.75 points per game during the stretch Diggs hated so much. One more win and 1.5 more ppg than the first 8 games. 

I keep hearing that he wanted, or needed the ball more, but honestly, Diggs was 1 or two total passes thrown in his general direction  from having the same amount of attention from his QB. He was only down about 1.5 targets per game from the first 8 games to the last 8 games. Is the baseline 11 targets per game? He only average 10 for the first 8 weeks. 11 per game is a top 10 targeted season. Even then most of those top 10 seasons are great players like Calvin Johnson on bad offenses. History cannot be the realistic baseline. 

I always want to know what is the quantifiable solution? No just "more" or "Diggs has to be involved". But an actual metric. How many more targets can we realistically push in his direction? Are 1-2 targets per game moving the needle from nearly 30 points per game? 

 

 

I wasn't saying I agreed. Just that is what I was told was the route of his unhappiness.

[Mango]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I wasn't saying I agreed. Just that is what I was told was the route of his unhappiness.

 

Sorry, that whole thing wasn't directed at you. Mostly the "well if he got the ball more, he wouldn't act this way" crowd. 

[ddaryl]

44 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I spoke to someone earlier today who has a decent track record of being reliable who said Diggs's issue is absolutely playcalling. Felt like he was used as a decoy too often 2nd half of last season. Was open and still the ball didn't go to him. 

 

 

Thats a good gameplan for when you have a dependable #1b
 

 

I would be a bit upset with leadership as well..... but really wish Diggs and mgmt had a sit down in the offseason, but then again maybe some manufactured drama is the only way to get leaderships attention here

Edited June 20, 2023 by ddaryl

[Mango]

2 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

Stop being obtuse.  This isn't a 40-hour per week email job where expectations are low already.  Nor is it an arena that everyone should sing kum-ba-ya now that last season is over and just hop on the 2023 Process train.  WR's do diva-esque things occasionally, but until we know for sure what happened, this is normie posturing. 

 

Stefon isn't a choir boy by any means...but it's so TBD for people to attack the player first and not question the events which led to the situation.  3 seasons of no issues until that playoff game and it's all on him?  Yeah. 

 

I am not being obtuse. I was specifically speaking to athletics. But thanks....

 

I am not referencing desk jockey's. I am talking about real life world championship sports; a topic I am well qualified to speak on.

 

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I spoke to someone earlier today who has a decent track record of being reliable who said Diggs's issue is absolutely playcalling. Felt like he was used as a decoy too often 2nd half of last season. Was open and still the ball didn't go to him. 

Thanks Gunner, this is what it certainly sounds like to me as well, so thanks for confirming some inside insight on it.

 

Diggs in interviews since the loss even alluded to as much in so many words.  Talked about how the first half the season things were just easier.  Said we were wining still but it just felt harder and like they had to find ways to win in the second half in terms of the offensive flow.  Which coincides with a big drop in his usage too during that span.  

[HappyDays]

Diggs needs to take a step back and realize that asking for even higher target share is inviting trouble. It's introducing doubt into Allen's mind. Most neutral observers agree that the Bills offense needs to become less forced, more "take what the defense gives you." Defenses are doubling/bracketing Diggs and daring us to beat them elsewhere. In situations like that Diggs needs to understand that he isn't going to be the focal point.

[BillsVet]

27 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

I am not being obtuse. I was specifically speaking to athletics. But thanks....

 

I am not referencing desk jockey's. I am talking about real life world championship sports; a topic I am well qualified to speak on.

 

 

Tell us what Diggs' beef with the front office/McD/Josh/ownership is.  That goes a long way toward understanding why, 3 years in, his attitude has apparently changed.   

[3rdand12]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

Diggs needs to take a step back and realize that asking for even higher target share is inviting trouble. It's introducing doubt into Allen's mind. Most neutral observers agree that the Bills offense needs to become less forced, more "take what the defense gives you." Defenses are doubling/bracketing Diggs and daring us to beat them elsewhere. In situations like that Diggs needs to understand that he isn't going to be the focal point.

I actually felt Allen was forcing ball and waiting on Diggs, or somebody too often.

 Players desire should not affect the QB decision making.

If he is open hit em. Diggs that is, If he aint / hit the second and third

Hell check it down maybe even ?
 

[Punch]

If Diggs:

 

a. Doesn’t have an issue with Dorsey

AND

 

b. Is frustrated with being asked to curtail his freestyle route running options

 

…THEN the issue must lie with McDermott. The head coach is the person most likely responsible for overriding freestyling on offense and this would jibe with other grumblings we’ve heard throughout the off-season.

[Mango]

1 hour ago, BillsVet said:

 

Tell us what Diggs' beef with the front office/McD/Josh/ownership is.  That goes a long way toward understanding why, 3 years in, his attitude has apparently changed.   

 

You are moving the goal posts. 

My OP that you were responding to was that being correct doesn't excuse bad behavior. 

You said I was obtuse and to not compare it to desk jobs with low expectations. 

I said I wasn't, I am pretty qualified to talk about high level team building and construction. 

Now you want me to explain Diggs beef. 

I fully stand by the fact that being "right" is rarely a good excuse for being a distraction in team sport. Especially on high level teams competing for world championships. 

[Einstein]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I spoke to someone earlier today who has a decent track record of being reliable who said Diggs's issue is absolutely playcalling. Felt like he was used as a decoy too often 2nd half of last season. Was open and still the ball didn't go to him. 

 

I believe this.

[Billy Claude]

Issues with play calling seems much more probable than ex-girlfriends impregnated by a teammate. However, if that is the case, was Josh just lying when he said the issues were not football related? If Allen was lying, what was the purpose of lying instead of just saying he didn't want to talk about specifics? Secondly, what about the reports that Diggs met with Beane, McDermott, and the new WR coach but not Dorsey?  Were those reports simply wrong?