Diggs NOT at mandatory minicamp, McDermott "very concerned" DAY 2 UPDATE: He's back

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

This matches up with something my source said today. It sounds like the Bills want to move more towards a structured offense with less freestyling/choice routes. Diggs likes the freestyling though. So he isn't happy with how much input he has in the direction of the offense.

 

I want to say up front that I think while your source may be correct about Diggs feelings on freestyling and input, I DON'T think this was the issue under discussion. 

 

Tim Graham is a pretty good reporter, careful with his sources, and he went on the record saying that the only info he could get out of his sources was that Diggs issue did NOT involve Dorsey. It's pretty hard to conceptualize an issue around Diggs wanting more input into the direction of the offense, as NOT involving Dorsey.  Ergo, one could conclude that the issue under discussion last Mon/Tues did NOT involve input into the offense or involvement in the offense.

 

Then there's the Josh Allen comments that the issue was not football related, but involved "teamwork" and "communication".  Again, it's hard to conceptualize an issue around the design of the offense and Diggs role in the offense, as NOT involving Dorsey or being football related.

 

Third there's the report (sounded like it came from Bakari) that the meetings involved Beane, McDermott, and Henry.  Whatever one thinks of McDermott, I don't think he's a weasel -and it would be weasel territory to hold discussions about the direction of the offense and a star player's involvement in it, without the man responsible for the offense in the room.

 

That said:

Something I and a number of others here have commented on is the number of times last season when it appeared that two WR wound up in the same place at the same time "that can't be designed like that".  McKenzie commented on his Ty Dunne podcast that some of his routes where he was stacked with Gabe Davis were "choice routes" where they could each choose what route to run, as long as they didn't interfere with one another. 

 

Well combine that with option routes run by the slot against zone where the young WR may or may not have chosen the option the QB expected because he read the defense differently, and I think a lot of the time either they did interfere, or the choices became too predictable and DBs were able to react.

 

(This is not intended to pick on McKenzie or Davis - it occured with other WR as well).

 

Maybe all the choice and option routes worked well with ultra-experienced WR like Beasley and Sanders and Brown and Diggs, and could tolerate one lesser experienced receiver like Davis.  But last year, with 3 less experienced WR in Davis and McKenzie and Shakir, it didn't work too well

 

It seems to me like a reasonable decision to move to a more structured offense with all of the young guys.  They should play faster if they know what route they're going to run, and their work is to figure out how to get open, -vs- if they're trying to figure out what route to run.

 

I would think the offense could be more structured and still tolerate a limited amount of freestyling from Diggs, though.

 

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

Whatever the messaging from the team is, it appears that the issue really is as simple as Diggs wants the ball more and wants his voice heard more in terms of the design/structure of the offense.

 

Diggs should get his voice heard.  He's a vet, he knows ball.  He should be able to watch film and bring play design ideas to Dorsey the way Beasley did to Daboll.

 

But wants the ball more? 

 

Last season, Diggs had 154 targets on 567 passing attempts by Josh Allen.  That's 27% of the passing attempts.  When you consider that Diggs was only on the field for 77% of the offensive snaps (a 3 year low for him), Diggs usage rate was actually UP - he got the ball on 1 out of every 5.4 snaps he's on the field, an increase from 1 out of every 6 snaps last season.

Justin Jefferson got the ball 1 out of every 6 snaps last 2 seasons.  Davonte Adams, one out of every 5.2 snaps last 2 seasons in GB, 1 out of every 6 snaps last year in LV.  Diggs current level of usage (or involvement) on a per-snap basis, is EXACTLY in line with other top WR.  Now JJ and DA got more targets - but they're on the field more.  Diggs seems to take himself off a fair bit.  IF he wants more targets, stay on the field more.

 

A lot of pretty smart people thought the offense was too dependent on Diggs as it was, and if we're going to get ROI on our 1st round TE and keep our other WR in the game, we need to spread the ball around a bit more, not less.

 

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

Personally I take this all as bad news. Even if the issue is resolved for now it's the kind of thing that can easily blow up again if Diggs still isn't happy with his role midway through the season and we've suffered a couple disappointing losses. If our offense comes out hot and we are winning I think everything will be fine, but at the first sign of adversity I worry about how Diggs will handle it.

 

IF  it's true that this was the "ditch I'm willing to die in" issue for Diggs (and see above arguements against this, I agree with you.

 

While your source may be correct about Diggs feelings, I don't think that was the issue being discussed here (unless the report about who was in the meeting was incorrect). 

 

So maybe there are more issues that need discussed 🤐

 

[JerseyBills]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

This matches up with something my source said today. It sounds like the Bills want to move more towards a structured offense with less freestyling/choice routes. Diggs likes the freestyling though. So he isn't happy with how much input he has in the direction of the offense.

 

One example that was shared to me was a 4th down play against the Bengals in the red zone which fell incomplete. I don't have a video on hand. But it's the play very late in the game where Diggs looked visibly frustrated after the ball fell incomplete to Davis. Apparently on that play the structure of the play said that Diggs should run outside. But the CB was shaded outside so he freestyled and ran inside instead, right over the top of Davis's crossing route. Allen didn't throw him the ball and Diggs was frustrated that Allen didn't follow his freelance on that play. In his mind he's always been able to freelance in situations like that and he doesn't like that Allen followed the structure of the play instead of Diggs' freelancing. Hopefully I explained that well enough.

 

Whatever the messaging from the team is, it appears that the issue really is as simple as Diggs wants the ball more and wants his voice heard more in terms of the design/structure of the offense.

 

Personally I take this all as bad news. Even if the issue is resolved for now it's the kind of thing that can easily blow up again if Diggs still isn't happy with his role midway through the season and we've suffered a couple disappointing losses. If our offense comes out hot and we are winning I think everything will be fine, but at the first sign of adversity I worry about how Diggs will handle it.

That's super interesting and sounds pretty legit . 

 

I only disagree on the last paragraph,  I think Diggs will act as a professional regardless of the situation 

[John from Riverside]

14 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

That's super interesting and sounds pretty legit . 

 

I only disagree on the last paragraph,  I think Diggs will act as a professional regardless of the situation 

So basically, all that needs to happen is Josh needs to get digs the ball and things will be fine

[RyanC883]

3 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

This matches up with something my source said today. It sounds like the Bills want to move more towards a structured offense with less freestyling/choice routes. Diggs likes the freestyling though. So he isn't happy with how much input he has in the direction of the offense.

 

One example that was shared to me was a 4th down play against the Bengals in the red zone which fell incomplete. I don't have a video on hand. But it's the play very late in the game where Diggs looked visibly frustrated after the ball fell incomplete to Davis. Apparently on that play the structure of the play said that Diggs should run outside. But the CB was shaded outside so he freestyled and ran inside instead, right over the top of Davis's crossing route. Allen didn't throw him the ball and Diggs was frustrated that Allen didn't follow his freelance on that play. In his mind he's always been able to freelance in situations like that and he doesn't like that Allen followed the structure of the play instead of Diggs' freelancing. Hopefully I explained that well enough.

 

Whatever the messaging from the team is, it appears that the issue really is as simple as Diggs wants the ball more and wants his voice heard more in terms of the design/structure of the offense.

 

Personally I take this all as bad news. Even if the issue is resolved for now it's the kind of thing that can easily blow up again if Diggs still isn't happy with his role midway through the season and we've suffered a couple disappointing losses. If our offense comes out hot and we are winning I think everything will be fine, but at the first sign of adversity I worry about how Diggs will handle it.

 

if this is true, it’s really ball hog bad.   if it’s just I want to freestyle and I’m good at it, that’s one thing, but being angry at plays being followed by others and demanding the ball is absurd when you have what someone else pointed out as an over 1/4 target share.   

[BADOLBILZ]

5 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

This matches up with something my source said today. It sounds like the Bills want to move more towards a structured offense with less freestyling/choice routes. Diggs likes the freestyling though. So he isn't happy with how much input he has in the direction of the offense.

 

One example that was shared to me was a 4th down play against the Bengals in the red zone which fell incomplete. I don't have a video on hand. But it's the play very late in the game where Diggs looked visibly frustrated after the ball fell incomplete to Davis. Apparently on that play the structure of the play said that Diggs should run outside. But the CB was shaded outside so he freestyled and ran inside instead, right over the top of Davis's crossing route. Allen didn't throw him the ball and Diggs was frustrated that Allen didn't follow his freelance on that play. In his mind he's always been able to freelance in situations like that and he doesn't like that Allen followed the structure of the play instead of Diggs' freelancing. Hopefully I explained that well enough.

 

Whatever the messaging from the team is, it appears that the issue really is as simple as Diggs wants the ball more and wants his voice heard more in terms of the design/structure of the offense.

 

Personally I take this all as bad news. Even if the issue is resolved for now it's the kind of thing that can easily blow up again if Diggs still isn't happy with his role midway through the season and we've suffered a couple disappointing losses. If our offense comes out hot and we are winning I think everything will be fine, but at the first sign of adversity I worry about how Diggs will handle it.

 

 

Before people get too far down the "Diggs just wants the ball and it isn't about winning" line of thinking...........consider that Diggs caught his targets about 70% of the time last season and Davis only about 50%.     That's a huge gotdam difference.   That can most definitely be the difference between winning games and losing them.   So yeah, if you want to win there isn't any doubt that you want to get the ball to the guy that catches it instead of the guy who does not.   

 

I understand that they want Allen to get the ball out on time and take less punishment and structure can certainly play into that...........but they need to close the gap between Diggs and the other targets if they can't find a way to make getting him the ball a priority over guys who don't catch their targets.  

[jethro_tull]

Diggs was recently criticized by Steve Kim on the Jason Whitlock podcast.  Saying he needs to show full commitment like Jerry Rice did (among others) and that Josh Allen needs to stop falling on the sword for him.  Near the end of the show...

 

"Finally, Steve Kim takes over the show to talk about Ja Morant's NBA suspension, Michael Jordan selling the Charlotte Hornets, and his thoughts on the Stefon Diggs and Josh Allen drama in the NFL." 

 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/matt-walsh-the-daily-wire-expose-fox-news-push-for/id1569056584?i=1000617315470 

[billieve420]

Well this is a new one. Per Carton Diggs frustrated about team not landing D-Hop. I guess when Allen said it was not football related it could be plausible but Diggs had to know team is up against the cap. So even if he thought money being freed up was going to be used to go after Hopkins and take some pressure off teams doubling him there was a chance it might not happen regardless.

 

 

 

Edited June 19, 2023 by billieve420

[BADOLBILZ]

6 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Then don’t resign Poyer, Hines to an overpaid extension, Leonard Floyd…. They are up against the cap because of their previous signings. 
 

Still, I doubt that is the reason. 

 

 

I believe it could be the reason.  

 

He knows Gabe just a WR3.   He knows they want to make the offense more structured and on schedule to get the ball out of Allen's hands.

 

Not having a more talented second WR spells coverages rolled to Diggs again........which in the scenario @HappyDays posted makes Gabe the primary read very often in an offense where Diggs isn't allowed to adjust his route based on the leverage of the CB to become the primary.

 

That means more passes to Gabe and barring huge, unreasonable-to-expect improvement from Gabe that subsequently means more passes on the turf and interceptions.   Except this would be for the entire season rather than just roughly half of it......like last year.  

 

I could see him thinking his re-structure got used on defense instead of to help the passing game and really not liking the combination of him being the primary even less while the offense still doesn't have a satisfactory 2nd option.    

 

A lot riding on Kincaid being a game changer.

[HappyDays]

38 minutes ago, billieve420 said:

Well this is a new one. Per Carton Diggs frustrated about team not landing D-Hop. I guess when Allen said it was not football related it could be plausible but Diggs had to know team is up against the cap. So even if he thought money being freed up was going to be used to go after Hopkins and take some pressure off teams doubling him there was a chance it might not happen regardless.

 

 

 

 

I wouldn't trust a report that starts with a falsehood - Diggs didn't have to ageee to his restructure. It was an option that Beane could do with or without his approval. My understanding is that players like when their contracts are restructured because they get more money right away.

 

Also Carton has a history of making up crap. He was throwing a bogus report out there that Aaron Rodgers was thinking of going to the 49ers before he approved the trade to the Jets, and several other reporters quickly made it known that that report was BS.

[Doc]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

Well. Not too late. They can still sign him. 

It seems that he’s waiting for a better offer from the better team. Otherwise he would’ve signed with the Cheaters right now. They can offer him the most of the teams that have expressed interest. 

[uticaclub]

1 hour ago, billieve420 said:

Well this is a new one. Per Carton Diggs frustrated about team not landing D-Hop. I guess when Allen said it was not football related it could be plausible but Diggs had to know team is up against the cap. So even if he thought money being freed up was going to be used to go after Hopkins and take some pressure off teams doubling him there was a chance it might not happen regardless.

 

 

 

He restructured with the promise they were going to sign another weapon. I’m with Stef if that is true.

[BillsFan4]

Well, Diggs is free to take a pay cut to make more space for Hopkins if he really wants him that bad… 😂

 

I’d be surprised if that was the issue though. This seems like something that’s been going on since last season.

[DrDawkinstein]

46 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

He restructured with the promise they were going to sign another weapon. I’m with Stef if that is true.

 

That's not how restructures work tho. In the restructures that convert salary to bonus, the team can do it automatically without player permission since it is benefiting the player. It puts their entire season's salary in their pocket in May. They promised him nothing when they cut him the check.

[Solomon Grundy]

31 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

That's not how restructures work tho. In the restructures that convert salary to bonus, the team can do it automatically without player permission since it is benefiting the player. It puts their entire season's salary in their pocket in May. They promised him nothing when they cut him the check.

Wow!! Didn't know that!! What if the player wanted his money over the long haul? The player has no say so over the matter?

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, Solomon Grundy said:

Wow!! Didn't know that!! What if the player wanted his money over the long haul? The player has no say so over the matter?

 

I mean that makes no sense.

 

If you are set to make $16M this year, would you want it all right now and get to invest it all now and start earning interest for the rest of the year? Or would you say "no thanks, wait until September and then pay me $1M/week, and if I get injured than I'll lose money on an injury settlement, and I dont need the roughly $500k I couldve earned in extra interest between May and Decemeber"

 

Like why? Why wouldnt anyone take all their money as soon as possible?

[Solomon Grundy]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

I wouldn't trust a report that starts with a falsehood - Diggs didn't have to ageee to his restructure. It was an option that Beane could do with or without his approval. My understanding is that players like when their contracts are restructured because they get more money right away.

 

Also Carton has a history of making up crap. He was throwing a bogus report out there that Aaron Rodgers was thinking of going to the 49ers before he approved the trade to the Jets, and several other reporters quickly made it known that that report was BS.

He said he was reporting what was told to him. It seems reasonable to me. I remember Diggs liking many of DHop references to Buffalo on Twitter 

2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I mean that makes no sense.

 

If you are set to make $16M this year, would you want it all right now and get to invest it all now and start earning interest for the rest of the year? Or would you say "no thanks, wait until September and then pay me $1M/week, and if I get injured than I'll lose money on an injury settlement, and I dont need the roughly $500k I couldve earned in extra interest between May and Decemeber"

 

Like why? Why wouldnt anyone take all their money as soon as possible?

Ask Gronk!! Reportedly he hasn't cashed a game check and lived off of his endorsement deals 

[DrDawkinstein]

3 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

 

Ask Gronk!! Reportedly he hasn't cashed a game check and lived off of his endorsement deals 

 

And as anyone with that much financial literacy and responsibility would tell you: GET THAT SALARY CONVERTED TO BONUS!

 

He's cashed all the checks, he just supposedly hasnt spent any of that money yet. It's a nice story and I bet partially true, but he didnt just walk into endorsement deals his rookie season. I bet SOME football money has been spent (but would agree very little). But he would concur to get it all upfront as bonus instead of salary.

 

Marshawn Lynch has said that same thing. He has all his football money untouched and only spent outside money. 🤷‍♂️

 

Must be nice to be rich.

[Captain Hindsight]

Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

 

And as anyone with that much financial literacy and responsibility would tell you: GET THAT SALARY CONVERTED TO BONUS!

 

He's cashed all the checks, he just supposedly hasnt spent any of that money yet. It's a nice story and I bet partially true, but he didnt just walk into endorsement deals his rookie season. I bet SOME football money has been spent (but would agree very little). But he would concur to get it all upfront as bonus instead of salary.

 

Marshawn Lynch has said that same thing. He has all his football money untouched and only spent outside money. 🤷‍♂️

 

Must be nice to be rich.

I haven't spent any of my money earned from football either

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

I haven't spent any of my money earned from football either

 

Actual chuckle. Well played.

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

And as anyone with that much financial literacy and responsibility would tell you: GET THAT SALARY CONVERTED TO BONUS!

 

He's cashed all the checks, he just supposedly hasnt spent any of that money yet. It's a nice story and I bet partially true, but he didnt just walk into endorsement deals his rookie season. I bet SOME football money has been spent (but would agree very little). But he would concur to get it all upfront as bonus instead of salary.

 

Marshawn Lynch has said that same thing. He has all his football money untouched and only spent outside money. 🤷‍♂️

 

Must be nice to be rich.

dont bonuses get taxed at a different rate than salary