PBF81 Posted June 13, 2023 Posted June 13, 2023 6 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Frank? The man who personally vouched for Carson Wentz and pounded the table for the ghost of Matt Ryan? Yea. No. No, Frank, the man that started in no uncertain terms that Peterman (Mr. Throwing INTs is fun!) gave his team the best chances of winning. You know, Peterman, the worst QB in the history of his franchise. Oh wait, my bad, that was McD. So sorry 'bout that, I misspoke. My bad. 😉 And really, what do you expect coaches to say. "I really hope I can make this guy play, I just don't feel like I've been given much to worth with."? And what on game day? "Let's go fellas, he may stink the joint up, but let's see if the rest of us can put together a decent game. Now let's go out there and take these guys apart!" 😂 There's a HUGE difference between Reich there, and DELIBERATELY CHOOSING over other options, ALL off which were better, and backing Peterman until fans and media forced his hand otherwise. I appreciate you stepping in to help bolster the argument that I made though. 😎 1 1
PBF81 Posted June 13, 2023 Posted June 13, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, pocoboy said: But for f***'s sake, I'm sick of being a town that has to drag out adversity after adversity (or perhaps excuse after excuse) why my teams have s*** the bed. Is the difference between a winner and a loser that the winner doesn't need to scribble down the events that kept them from the title? All my defensemen were injured...Hull's skate in the crease...Dickerson's big mouth...the helmet...Norwood... At some point I want my team to say F*** it and do it. Just do it. I don't really want to discount the severity of things from last season, but if we're sitting here in February of 2024 talking about the distraction of the stadium project or someone getting injured or they played too many games in too few days or the London trip, I'm not going to be very patient with it. This team isn't new to this anymore. They've got to solve it. And that probably means the most daunting expectations on our QB that could be expected, and I just hope he's got it in him. Very nicely summed up! I'm not sure that it's primarily Allen tho, he's the primary reason we've even been worth a siht. He's got it in him It definitely hasn't been our OL, RBs, TEs, or WRs that have carried us. But now we've got Diggs' to worry about, and of course the elephant sitting in the fruit bowl is Dorsey. McD's in the sights now too re: his D. He was patently average in Carolina with very arguably better D talent there and he's got the toughest slate of offensive talent on the schedule that he's ever seen and for the first time he's been here he doesn't have one of the easier schedules in the league. We'll see how he does, but why would we expect anything better than what he's done in the past. Absolute requirements are winning the division and advancing beyond the Divisional Round convincingly, not by barely beating a team using it's 3rd-string QB while playing at home in front of rabid fans, and if we lose after that, it had better be a perfectly played game against a great team, but most importantly, no coaching blunders. If that doesn't happen I suspect that the existing narratives re: McBeane will be stood on their heads. Excuses aren't going to fly this time. McD's entering his 7th season and Beane's has had 6 years now too put an above-average team on the field around Allen. It's all once again looking better than it ever has. IMO that's a big hill though considering the patterns & trends to date. Edited June 13, 2023 by PBF81
GunnerBill Posted June 13, 2023 Posted June 13, 2023 23 minutes ago, PBF81 said: No, Frank, the man that started in no uncertain terms that Peterman (Mr. Throwing INTs is fun!) gave his team the best chances of winning. You know, Peterman, the worst QB in the history of his franchise. Oh wait, my bad, that was McD. So sorry 'bout that, I misspoke. My bad. 😉 And really, what do you expect coaches to say. "I really hope I can make this guy play, I just don't feel like I've been given much to worth with."? And what on game day? "Let's go fellas, he may stink the joint up, but let's see if the rest of us can put together a decent game. Now let's go out there and take these guys apart!" 😂 There's a HUGE difference between Reich there, and DELIBERATELY CHOOSING over other options, ALL off which were better, and backing Peterman until fans and media forced his hand otherwise. I appreciate you stepping in to help bolster the argument that I made though. 😎 Reich deliberately chose Carson Wentz - the worst QB in football - over all other options.
Bill from NYC Posted June 13, 2023 Posted June 13, 2023 (edited) 12 hours ago, Airseven said: No kidding. Do Bills fans want credit for admitting this? Allen’s peers are Hurts and Herbert. Now that’s actually an interesting trio to debate and rank. I am going to have to respectfully disagree. I have watched Hurts since his first game as a freshman. Of course he has improved since then and he is a tireless worker, and by all accounts a really great guy. That said, he is not in a class with Josh Allen imo. Hurts is a great runner but Josh is clearly superior. In terms of passing, Jalen is a good passer; Josh makes circus throws. He can throw 40 yard out patterns as easliy as Dan Marino, with even more arm strength. Josh could probably throw Hurts 30 or 40 yards. If Allen was on the Eagles they would be unbeatable. Hurts would have had problems on the Bills. Hey, the above is jmo but I don't even think that it is close. Edited June 13, 2023 by Bill from NYC 2
PBF81 Posted June 13, 2023 Posted June 13, 2023 (edited) 21 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Reich deliberately chose Carson Wentz - the worst QB in football - over all other options. Really? OK, since apparently you enjoy polemical pain ... McD deliberately chose Peterman - far far far worse than Wentz, and even to the extent of raving about him after the draft, thereby shattering your argument - over all other options, including Allen at that time. I'm not a Wentz fan in the least, but in Indy he posted 3,563 Yards, 27 TDs, 7 INTs, 62.4%, and had a rating of 94.6. McD's wonderboy choice in his 8 games & 4 starts captured Bills Mafia's hearts with 548 yards, 3 TDs, 12 impressive INTs, a 52.3%, and a 32.5 rating. A number of posters here may have been able to do that back in their prime. Not only is he the worst QB to ever suit up for the Bills, and McD's "best chance to win," great humor in retrospect, but he's one of the worst QBs in NFL history. And your honestly defending McD over Reich here on that premise, that Wentz was worse than Peterman. SMH/ ROFLMAO just take the L here. I'll cover your breakfast. Edited June 13, 2023 by PBF81
PBF81 Posted June 13, 2023 Posted June 13, 2023 (edited) 33 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Reich deliberately chose Carson Wentz - the worst QB in football - over all other options. BTW, for all the crying we do around here for not having Cincy's core of WRs, Reich/Wentz had Pittman Jr., Pascal, A washed up Hilton, and Dulan. Imagine the tears if those guys were our core of WRs. LOL. Reich also got five times more from Hines offensively. And BTW, his offense that season finished 9th in scoring to our 5th. Pretty remarkable considering the garbage he had other than at RB. To reiterate, yes, I think that Reich would have gotten way more out of this offense than McD is. Edited June 13, 2023 by PBF81 1
GunnerBill Posted June 13, 2023 Posted June 13, 2023 15 minutes ago, PBF81 said: Really? OK, since apparently you enjoy polemical pain ... McD deliberately chose Peterman - far far far worse than Wentz, and even to the extent of raving about him after the draft, thereby shattering your argument - over all other options, including Allen at that time. I'm not a Wentz fan in the least, but in Indy he posted 3,563 Yards, 27 TDs, 7 INTs, 62.4%, and had a rating of 94.6. McD's wonderboy choice in his 8 games & 4 starts captured Bills Mafia's hearts with 548 yards, 3 TDs, 12 impressive INTs, a 52.3%, and a 32.5 rating. A number of posters here may have been able to do that back in their prime. Not only is he the worst QB to ever suit up for the Bills, and McD's "best chance to win," great humor in retrospect, but he's one of the worst QBs in NFL history. And your honestly defending McD over Reich here on that premise, that Wentz was worse than Peterman. SMH/ ROFLMAO just take the L here. I'll cover your breakfast. I am not defending the Peterman choice. I said before he was drafted or had anything to do with the Bills that he sucked. Agree he is one of the worst in history. But playing Peterman a few games is different to banging the table and trading serious assets for Carson ***** Wentz.
PBF81 Posted June 13, 2023 Posted June 13, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I am not defending the Peterman choice. I said before he was drafted or had anything to do with the Bills that he sucked. Agree he is one of the worst in history. But playing Peterman a few games is different to banging the table and trading serious assets for Carson ***** Wentz. When you put up that argument, implicitly you are defending McD's Peterman choice. The facts and data are above as are the arguments. Wentz wasn't even nearly the worst QB that season. He finished 10th in passing TDs. To attempt to impugn a coach on that, with the siht he had at WR is ridiculous. Edited June 13, 2023 by PBF81
GunnerBill Posted June 13, 2023 Posted June 13, 2023 6 minutes ago, PBF81 said: When you put up that argument, implicitly you are defending McD's Peterman choice. The facts and data are above as are the arguments. Wentz wasn't even nearly the worst QB that season. He finished 10th in passing TDs. To attempt to impugn a coach on that, with the siht he had at WR is ridiculous. Nope. I am not implicitly doing anything. 1
PBF81 Posted June 13, 2023 Posted June 13, 2023 Just now, GunnerBill said: Nope. I am not implicitly doing anything. It's part of the direct comparison between Reich and McD, sure you are. You may not have meant to, but that's the way it unfolded. 1
GunnerBill Posted June 13, 2023 Posted June 13, 2023 5 minutes ago, PBF81 said: It's part of the direct comparison between Reich and McD, sure you are. You may not have meant to, but that's the way it unfolded. No that is your incorrect interpretation. 1
PBF81 Posted June 13, 2023 Posted June 13, 2023 (edited) 50 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: No that is your incorrect interpretation. No, you directly impugned Reich for backing Wentz, and when few options for him were available. There's nothing to interpret here based on what you wrote. Let's not forget that that team is driven by Jim Irsay and Chris Ballard. Hardly Robert Kraft and Bill Polian. I acquiesced to the premise that getting Wentz was entirely his decision and not Ballard's, or worse yet, that sot Irsay's. Same for Ryan. In doing so you opened up the argument to the judgement of the coaches in the discussion, Reich v. McD. I merely pointed out that if you're going to impugn the judgement of Reich for unequivocally backing a QB like Wentz, then it definitely is within the realm of reasonability to question the same judgement on the part of the coach that you are defending. McD's support for Peterman was as ardent as it gets, the fans and media literally had to force his hand into a change. Remarkably, when any blind man could see that Peterman was going nowhere but to pursue the ambitions of his college degree. BTW, that "horrific" season that you imply Wentz had, again, from someone that also doesn't care for Wentz, Wentz put up his third best Yardage and Ratings seasons, and 2nd best TD and TD% seasons in his 7-year career. I wonder how Allen would have done with Pittman Jr., Pascal, a washed up Hilton, and Dulan, two of which very few here have even heard of. I know that the crescendo of wails originating in Buffalo related to the talent at WR would have been heard in Elmira. I also think that Reich was quietly awaiting to be chosen at least as the OC for us, but it's pretty clear that McD wasn't about to hire someone that could easily replace him if things went south, or not as well as he should have done. So he hires Daboll, who's track record of offenses during his tenures as OC consistently ranked in the 20s, typically the mid-high 20s even. If you want I post 'em. Abysmal. Reich would have been so much a better OC or HC for this Allen-centric team. After McD, and I'm pretty confident it's coming unless we win it all this season, will be an offensive minded HC. Edited June 13, 2023 by PBF81 1 2
PBF81 Posted June 13, 2023 Posted June 13, 2023 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: No that is your incorrect interpretation. BTW, you are venturing into homer status here on this one. 1
PrimeTime101 Posted June 13, 2023 Posted June 13, 2023 5 minutes ago, PBF81 said: BTW, you are venturing into homer status here on this one. The second you throw insults, is the second you lost the argument. Just Saying. 1
4merper4mer Posted June 13, 2023 Posted June 13, 2023 21 minutes ago, PBF81 said: No, you directly impugned Reich for backing Wentz, and when few options for him were available. There's nothing to interpret here based on what you wrote. Let's not forget that that team is driven by Jim Irsay and Chris Ballard. Hardly Robert Kraft and Bill Polian. I acquiesced to the premise that getting Wentz was entirely his decision and not Ballard's, or worse yet, that sot Irsay's. Same for Ryan. In doing so you opened up the argument to the judgement of the coaches in the discussion, Reich v. McD. I merely pointed out that if you're going to impugn the judgement of Reich for unequivocally backing a QB like Wentz, then it definitely is within the realm of reasonability to question the same judgement on the part of the coach that you are defending. McD's support for Peterman was as ardent as it gets, the fans and media literally had to force his hand into a change. Remarkably, when any blind man could see that Peterman was going nowhere but to pursue the ambitions of his college degree. BTW, that "horrific" season that you imply Wentz had, again, from someone that also doesn't care for Wentz, Wentz put up his third best Yardage and Ratings seasons, and 2nd best TD and TD% seasons in his 7-year career. I wonder how Allen would have done with Pittman Jr., Pascal, a washed up Hilton, and Dulan, two of which very few here have even heard of. I know that the crescendo of wails originating in Buffalo related to the talent at WR would have been heard in Elmira. I also think that Reich was quietly awaiting to be chosen at least as the OC for us, but it's pretty clear that McD wasn't about to hire someone that could easily replace him if things went south, or not as well as he should have done. So he hires Daboll, who's track record of offenses during his tenures as OC consistently ranked in the 20s, typically the mid-high 20s even. If you want I post 'em. Abysmal. Reich would have been so much a better OC or HC for this Allen-centric team. After McD, and I'm pretty confident it's coming unless we win it all this season, will be an offensive minded HC. Shirley you can’t be serious. 1
newcam2012 Posted June 13, 2023 Posted June 13, 2023 4 hours ago, pocoboy said: The Hamlin incident preyed upon the biggest weakness of this team: they are emotionally immature, at least in my opinion. If 13 Seconds doesn't happen, I think this team might be celebrating two in a row. But they still haven't fully recovered from that. Actually, the KC win mid-season may have served to hinder the recovery from that - regardless of what we make of the GB game that followed the bye, it's tough not to look at that Chiefs victory and wonder if they climaxed at that point. And perhaps they get everything back if the litany of disasters doesn't afflict the team - the elbow injury, the blizzard, Von's injury, Hamlin's event...and surely the Topps shooting and Kim's situation were all mixed in there too. But for f***'s sake, I'm sick of being a town that has to drag out adversity after adversity (or perhaps excuse after excuse) why my teams have s*** the bed. Is the difference between a winner and a loser that the winner doesn't need to scribble down the events that kept them from the title? All my defensemen were injured...Hull's skate in the crease...Dickerson's big mouth...the helmet...Norwood... At some point I want my team to say F*** it and do it. Just do it. I don't really want to discount the severity of things from last season, but if we're sitting here in February of 2024 talking about the distraction of the stadium project or someone getting injured or they played too many games in too few days or the London trip, I'm not going to be very patient with it. This team isn't new to this anymore. They've got to solve it. And that probably means the most daunting expectations on our QB that could be expected, and I just hope he's got it in him. I feel your frustration as well. Others will say be happy they are making the playoffs and are a very good team. Not sure why both can't be true.
Royale with Cheese Posted June 13, 2023 Posted June 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, newcam2012 said: I feel your frustration as well. Others will say be happy they are making the playoffs and are a very good team. Not sure why both can't be true. This is not true. No one on here is just happy making the playoffs and a very good team. Everyone one here wants a Super Bowl. Some people just don't vent and B word/complain all the time. Some people can remained composed, others can't. 1 1
newcam2012 Posted June 13, 2023 Posted June 13, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, PBF81 said: No, Frank, the man that started in no uncertain terms that Peterman (Mr. Throwing INTs is fun!) gave his team the best chances of winning. You know, Peterman, the worst QB in the history of his franchise. Oh wait, my bad, that was McD. So sorry 'bout that, I misspoke. My bad. 😉 And really, what do you expect coaches to say. "I really hope I can make this guy play, I just don't feel like I've been given much to worth with."? And what on game day? "Let's go fellas, he may stink the joint up, but let's see if the rest of us can put together a decent game. Now let's go out there and take these guys apart!" 😂 There's a HUGE difference between Reich there, and DELIBERATELY CHOOSING over other options, ALL off which were better, and backing Peterman until fans and media forced his hand otherwise. I appreciate you stepping in to help bolster the argument that I made though. 😎 I would have had no problem having Frank Reich replace McD. He has Buffalo ties and by all accounts his players respect and play hard for him. He is offensive minded and I believe a coaching change is more the welcome. Truthfully, I didn't see much of a risk if the Bills went in that direction. 2 hours ago, PBF81 said: Very nicely summed up! I'm not sure that it's primarily Allen tho, he's the primary reason we've even been worth a siht. He's got it in him It definitely hasn't been our OL, RBs, TEs, or WRs that have carried us. But now we've got Diggs' to worry about, and of course the elephant sitting in the fruit bowl is Dorsey. McD's in the sights now too re: his D. He was patently average in Carolina with very arguably better D talent there and he's got the toughest slate of offensive talent on the schedule that he's ever seen and for the first time he's been here he doesn't have one of the easier schedules in the league. We'll see how he does, but why would we expect anything better than what he's done in the past. Absolute requirements are winning the division and advancing beyond the Divisional Round convincingly, not by barely beating a team using it's 3rd-string QB while playing at home in front of rabid fans, and if we lose after that, it had better be a perfectly played game against a great team, but most importantly, no coaching blunders. If that doesn't happen I suspect that the existing narratives re: McBeane will be stood on their heads. Excuses aren't going to fly this time. McD's entering his 7th season and Beane's has had 6 years now too put an above-average team on the field around Allen. It's all once again looking better than it ever has. IMO that's a big hill though considering the patterns & trends to date. Agree with everything except "excuses aren't going to fly this time." There will be excuses or as one poster likes to say explanations. Edited June 13, 2023 by newcam2012 1
teef Posted June 13, 2023 Posted June 13, 2023 9 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: This is not true. No one on here is just happy making the playoffs and a very good team. Everyone one here wants a Super Bowl. Some people just don't vent and B word/complain all the time. Some people can remained composed, others can't. i have no idea why that's become a narrative for a few on here. it's lazy. everyone on here wants a super bowl win and knows that the playoffs aren't enough. 1
PBF81 Posted June 13, 2023 Posted June 13, 2023 14 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said: The second you throw insults, is the second you lost the argument. Just Saying. To start, I was being light. Secondly, it continues on a comment he made about himself in another thread. The comment was to him, he knows what I'm talking about, it wasn't mean as an insult, I think he realizes that. Context is key here. Always good not to assume things like that. As to the argument, LOL, I don't think that argument is lost. I think it's beyond ridiculous to begin with on his end. Do you agree with his position? I'll sum it up for you. He directly called into question Reich's judgement in supporting Wentz in countering my implication that Reich would have been a better OC or HC here than either Daboll or McD. I then brought into the conversation McD's unwavering and quite frankly steadfast judgement that Peterman gave us the best chance of winning. Keep in mind that McD was openly mocked for that far and wide, including here. So to you support his argument, that you claim I lost? That namely Reich's judgement was worse than McD's in those two stated cases? Simple Y/N question, no explanations needed. ?? 17 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said: Shirley you can’t be serious. Same question to you.
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