Leslie Frazier visits with 3 teams

[Brand J]

18 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

Seriously? Good lord, dude!

 

He spends two days each with three teams, and you're saying it now doesn't count as taking the year off?

 

Again, good lord!!!

 

If he puts down the pina colada before he finishes it, is that also not a year off? Jeez.

 

I suppose the words “stepping away from coaching with a possibility to return in 2024” were used incorrectly. He said he was stepping away from the game, but not even a couple months “away” he’s already enrolled in some sort of accelerator program meeting with 3 different franchises. I’d say that sounds very much involved and not at all “stepping away.”
 

If you believe unequivocally what Leslie is telling you, then he should’ve used “I’m taking time away to learn more about the game in hopes of strengthening my 2024 head coaching campaign.” As the defensive coordinator of a successful defense it sounds even more suspect, I know, hence why he never used those words exactly. When asked by reporters “why are you leaving the team?” He responded with a generic “just needed a break.” 

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, GerstAusGosheim said:

Nah, the Bills just didn't want the backlash for firing a very successful black coach. They did him no favors. 

One can argue that Leslie did himself no favors, three very noticeable and consecutive post season failures, all because of his stand of not making meaningful in game adjustments, something he himself has said he is against doing. The writing was on the wall  before the “Senior Defensive Assistant” was being tossed around by McDermott, Leslie was all but gone at that point in time, The Bills were very kind to him, allowing him to “step aside” as if it was his decision, when he was actually being fired/let go/ layed off, or what other euphemism you would prefer. 

[NewEra]

32 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

We believe that it was his decision because everyone says so, including the reporters who know the guy and would have good reason to have a juicy opinion about it.

 

It almost certainly was exactly that.

 

And yeah, he had this DC job, but if anybody is aware that being the DC on this team isn't enough to get him a head coach job, it's Frazier. He's done a terrific job. And somewhat fairly, McDermott gets most of the credit. Bienemy wasn't getting anything OCing under Reid and Frazier had the same problem. Even two SB wins didn't get him a head coaching job because the credit went to Reid.

 

And Bieniemy is a lot younger than Frazier.

 

It just would not have hurt Frazier to be fired from this job. McD might very well have hired another DC if it had been early enough in the process that this happened.

 

I get it. It's much more dramatic and a better story this way, and everybody loves a conspiracy theory. But there's no real reason to think this was anything but what they say it was. If they'd fired him they wouldn't have waited till February 28th. That's five weeks after their season ended. What makes sense there is an older guy realizing that he wasn't as charged up as he'd always been before combined with a feeling that another year at the job he was in wasn't going to get him closer to the job that was his long-time dream.

Because everyone says so.  Got it.  
 

acting as if organizations don’t ever hold back all of the information in order to benefit one of their own.  Frazier is one of their own.  It just wasn’t working.  They hope for him to become a HC because that’s his goal.  Stating that mcdermott was going to take over play calling regardless of Frazier’s decision accomplishes nothing towards helping him achieve that goal.  It only hurts whatever slim chances that he had.  

 

We’re all entitled to believe everything that’s said as the truth.  I think that’s naive in this case considering the possible ramifications being only negative.  Nothing good could possibly come of telling the truth.  
 

we’ll never know for sure imo.  

[Breakout Squad]

20 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

Frazier is meeting with teams because that is purpose of head coach accelerator program.

He was looking for head coach position last year while working for Bills.

He is taking sabbatical this season but that does not mean he wants to be off market next year. 

He is meeting teams to see what he needs to work on - clearly Giants are not looking at Frazier for head coach next year.

Some will turn this story to whatever angle they have been pushing even if it is obtuse.

 

 

 

I’ve seen Shawshank Redemption. Don’t call a man obtuse or you’ll be punished severely 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, JayBaller10 said:

I suppose the words “stepping away from coaching with a possibility to return in 2024” were used incorrectly. He said he was stepping away from the game, but not even a couple months “away” he’s already enrolled in some sort of accelerator program meeting with 3 different franchises. I’d say that sounds very much involved and not at all “stepping away.”
 

If you believe unequivocally what Leslie is telling you, then he should’ve used “I’m taking time away to learn more about the game in hopes of strengthening my 2024 head coaching campaign.” As the defensive coordinator of a successful defense it sounds even more suspect, I know, hence why he never used those words exactly. When asked by reporters “why are you leaving the team?” He responded with a generic “just needed a break.” 

 

This is utter nonsense.

[bigduke6]

i wonder if letting Edmunds go created a problem between Frazier and McD.    could just be a coincidence but i get that feeling.

[PrimeTime101]

9 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

I suppose the words “stepping away from coaching with a possibility to return in 2024” were used incorrectly. He said he was stepping away from the game, but not even a couple months “away” he’s already enrolled in some sort of accelerator program meeting with 3 different franchises. I’d say that sounds very much involved and not at all “stepping away.”
 

If you believe unequivocally what Leslie is telling you, then he should’ve used “I’m taking time away to learn more about the game in hopes of strengthening my 2024 head coaching campaign.” As the defensive coordinator of a successful defense it sounds even more suspect, I know, hence why he never used those words exactly. When asked by reporters “why are you leaving the team?” He responded with a generic “just needed a break.” 

Frazier did not owe anyone or McD owe anyone better wording then what was said. They did their best to keep Frazier fringing under the table because of how much respect the staff has/had for him. We have no clue what was said behind curtains. We may never no. But for me? That was the most respectful way to let him go.  Move On Leslie does or did not need to say anything else other than what was said. I wish him the best.. he is a good dude. They are either going to take that used napkin and lay it gently on the lap or they are going to throw it in the bin. 

 

This has all been talked about on these forums over and over again and I feel... Thinking he should of said something different or different Verbiage is nuts.. again.. We do not know what happened behind closed doors... period. 

Edited June 7, 2023 by PrimeTime101

[Saxum]

5 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

That was the most respectful way to let him go.

 

He was not let go - his contract ended.  He had a 5 year contract.

 

2 years: Buffalo Bills (2017–2019) - Defensive coordinator

3 years: Buffalo Bills (2020–2022) - Assistant head coach & defensive coordinator

[PrimeTime101]

Just now, Limeaid said:

 

He was not let go - his contract ended.  He had a 5 year contract.

 

2 years: Buffalo Bills (2017–2019) - Defensive coordinator

3 years: Buffalo Bills (2020–2022) - Assistant head coach & defensive coordinator

true that. wrong wording

[Doc Brown]

On 6/5/2023 at 7:53 PM, wppete said:

Zero chance he gets a HC or DC job. 

I think all the positions are filled at this point.  If you're talking about next year he should have no problem getting a defensive coordinator job if he wants it.

[BobbyC81]

On 6/5/2023 at 5:30 PM, Limeaid said:

 

Yes he has but they have had minorities who were head coaches, interim and full coaches, before in it.

 

https://nflcommunications.com/Pages/INAUGURAL-NFL-COACH-AND-FRONT-OFFICE-ACCELERATOR-PROGRAM-SLATED-FOR-SPRING-LEAGUE-MEETING-MAY-23-24-IN-ATLANTA.aspx

 

 

It does remind me of a job interview I had.  After interviewing first day I was told by interviewer that I was best candidate he interviewed but there is pressure from management to hire a veteran, handicapped, woman or minority and better that if candidate filled more than one category.  He then asked me about my foot and glasses and asked if I ever applied for handicapped status and I said no except post surgery for parking permit.  He said good luck but you have little chance of getting position. 

 

Interview was multiple days so rather than taking another day off work I called company I was interviewing and said I was cancelling rest of interview for job had urgent matter for me.    Next there was an opening I was called by an internal recruiter (originally I was referred to by external recruiter) and said that they were interested in finishing interview and I said no.  I was aware of policy and the number I saw on desk and not going to interview unless my time was paid for.  Last time I interviewed part of the interview was problem solving which I was told was real problem they were having so they had a free consultation already.

 

Since nobody else replied, I felt it was my duty to (dooty 2?)

 

🤮

[mjt328]

On 6/5/2023 at 7:12 PM, dpberr said:

His career has mystified me in that if a HC position was the ultimate career goal, why didn't he go the Pete Carroll/Lovie Smith route and go to the college ranks to hone those skills?  Pete Carroll was a much better coach at Seattle than he was in NE because of his stint at USC.  

 

I feel Leslie Frazier waited too long and that window has closed.   

 

The most common path to NFL Head Coach is the coordinator route.

While it does happen sometimes, teams very rarely draw directly from the college ranks.

 

I think certain narratives develop around the league over time, and unfortunately Leslie Frazier has several strikes against him:

 

1.  Re-treads don't usually get a second chance.  Especially if their first stint was a total failure.  In 4 seasons, Frazier's Vikings had a lowly 21-32-1 record with 3 last place finishes.  

2.  His recent success as a coordinator can be easily dismissed by the idea that Sean McDermott actually runs the defense.  It's the same problem that Eric Bieniemy has with Andy Reid above him.

3.  At 64, he would already be the third-oldest head coach in the NFL.  When a team is looking to start-over, they generally want a young guy who can run the ship for a decade or more.

4.  While it's only a slight difference, teams have been trending towards hiring offensive coaches over defensive ones.  

 

[GunnerBill]

13 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

 

The most common path to NFL Head Coach is the coordinator route.

While it does happen sometimes, teams very rarely draw directly from the college ranks.

 

I think certain narratives develop around the league over time, and unfortunately Leslie Frazier has several strikes against him:

 

1.  Re-treads don't usually get a second chance.  Especially if their first stint was a total failure.  In 4 seasons, Frazier's Vikings had a lowly 21-32-1 record with 3 last place finishes.  

2.  His recent success as a coordinator can be easily dismissed by the idea that Sean McDermott actually runs the defense.  It's the same problem that Eric Bieniemy has with Andy Reid above him.

3.  At 64, he would already be the third-oldest head coach in the NFL.  When a team is looking to start-over, they generally want a young guy who can run the ship for a decade or more.

4.  While it's only a slight difference, teams have been trending towards hiring offensive coaches over defensive ones.  

 

 

I think there is a 5th too.... he is a low key personality. He isn't a rah-rah guy. Bruce Arians got a second chance as an older coach (okay he had a more successful first stint) because he was an offensive guy and because he is more of an uplifter that people get behind. Leslie's not that type. He is really smart, really respected, but if you want to turn around a franchise is he the personality type to do that?

[The Red King]

He's not the guy that would get us to the Super Bowl.  But, that doesn't mean he's not a good coach/coordinator.  There are a number of mid/low tier teams he'd be an upgrade for.  He might even be able to carry a team into the playoffs.  He just won't take them farther then that.  For a rebuilding team that needs experience and confidence that would be huge.  You know "bridge QBs"?  Frazier could be a "bridge coach/DC".

[Patrick Duffy]

19 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Dude got scapegoated because of a million injuries and only had the 2nd ranked defense in the nfl. That bum never deserves to work again!!!

 

It's easy to see how it can be looked at like in this way by anyone, however can also understand anyone who would say it was a bit more building up to that with some questionable decisions  before last season with all the injuries/etc. 

 

 

[GerstAusGosheim]

22 hours ago, transient said:

Except that after the KC game last year, and both the Miami and Cinci playoff games this year, it would have been easily justifiable to outright fire him and still “manage the optics” regardless of his race and regular season numbers. They’re a SB contending team whose defense, which leads many metrics in-season, sucks ass in the clutch.
 

The way they approached it may be completely transparent, and it isn’t likely to change a thing in the end, but they approached it this way to try and let Frazier save face IMO. 

It's been a discussed million times on this board that the special teams coordinator and LBs coach were quietly jettisoned after KC13. Yet, Leslie seems to continuously get all the blame. Additionally, it's Sean's defense and he was standing right there for 13 seconds and could have at any moment changed the D. So why didn't he? Bills were never going to beat Cinci with the O scoring 10 points. Easily justifiable? Meh. It should also be no surprise to anyone that Sean is loading up on D players because he will justifiably be on the hot seat if we don't win the Super Bowl this season.

 

[Brand J]

2 hours ago, GerstAusGosheim said:

It's been a discussed million times on this board that the special teams coordinator and LBs coach were quietly jettisoned after KC13. Yet, Leslie seems to continuously get all the blame. Additionally, it's Sean's defense and he was standing right there for 13 seconds and could have at any moment changed the D. So why didn't he? Bills were never going to beat Cinci with the O scoring 10 points. Easily justifiable? Meh. It should also be no surprise to anyone that Sean is loading up on D players because he will justifiably be on the hot seat if we don't win the Super Bowl this season.

 

I don’t know about that.

[Mr. WEO]

On 6/6/2023 at 2:47 PM, C.Biscuit97 said:

Dude got scapegoated because of a million injuries and only had the 2nd ranked defense in the nfl. That bum never deserves to work again!!!

 

Beane and McD scapegoated him?  They are the ones that dumped him.

[The Red King]

On 6/6/2023 at 2:47 PM, C.Biscuit97 said:

Dude got scapegoated because of a million injuries and only had the 2nd ranked defense in the nfl. That bum never deserves to work again!!!

 

13 seconds.  That and the guy, by his own admission does not make in-game adjustments.  They have/had the talent to overcome that against mid/poor teams.  When you hit the elites, they adjust.  Look at the Cinci games.  Frazier had a lot of time to prepare after seeing his D shredded in a drive and a half and he changed nothing.  And...this may shock and amaze you...it got shredded again, in the same way, in the playoffs.  You turn a failing scheme into a working one through adjustments.  Not by hoping the football fairy comes down out of the sky and magically makes the opposing offense change their plan into something yours works on.

 

Frazier believes in fairies.  We get smoked against elites in the playoffs.  That's not scapegoating.  If they put up a fight, if Frazier made adjustments and it still just didn't work then yeah, you could claim scapegoat.  But he didn't.  He's all "damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead", and then gets surprised when he gets blown out of the water by the aforementioned torpedoes.

 

No scapegoating here.  Frazier is a relic who overcame his utter lack of adjustments and flexibility through sheer overmatching of opponents, talent level to talent level.  I could be a top-tier boxer if I got to fight high-school seniors.  Maybe even 2nd rank.  But put me then up against a trained boxer and my butt would hit the mat faster then a QB drilled by Von Miller.

[GerstAusGosheim]

On 6/6/2023 at 11:19 AM, John from Riverside said:

All I know is we got destroyed in that Bengals game and it just looked like we were playing so passive

 

That had to be a very uncomfortable film review for the coaches, the biggest game of the year and playing defensive back 7 yards off the line of scrimmage

It wasn't pretty, that's for sure. O played worse than D.